Class 365 - are they leaving Govia Thameslink Railway?

[chubs]

Sure you're not getting mixed up with the Class 317s or 321s? I don't really much of a difference between the 365s and later Bombardier units.

Nope. They are far better than the 317's or 321's!

 

[chubs]

Something that puzzles me with your comment regarding transferring them to Southeastern.

The Southeastern and the London, Chatham, & Dover Railway metals is electrified with 750v DC third rail. The Class 365s are designed for 25kV AC overhead. Although I believe the bodyshell of the Class 365s are similar to the Class 465s and 466s, I don't know if it is at all possible 9or even worthwhile) to install shoegear on the 365s.

It wasn't that long ago a small subfleet worked for SouthEastern, I often saw them in Charring X on short services whilst sat on a clapped out slam door EMU heading to Ashford & Canterbury West.

 

[Clip]

It wasn't that long ago a small subfleet worked for SouthEastern, I often saw them in Charring X on short services whilst sat on a clapped out slam door EMU heading to Ashford & Canterbury West.

Indeed they did and Im pretty sure that you could still attach shoes to those units once again.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Everybody seems to have forgotten the 5-car 707s which MTR/First have decided to ditch...

Just sayin'

 

[glbotu]

So, the 365s are "dual voltage" in that they can be fitted with either 3rd rail pickup shoes or a pantograph and work just fine. They were originally introduced on the South Eastern with the rest of the Networkers. So it shouldn't be impossible to send them back to the SE should that be needed. They don't quite go as quickly*** off the 3rd rail though.

***Accelerate less - not top speed

 

[jon0844]

Everybody seems to have forgotten the 5-car 707s which MTR/First have decided to ditch...

I know SWT land is big on 5 or 10 car trains, but a lot of other places are 4, 8 or 12 (and 6) so 5 car trains don't necessarily fit well unless relying on SDO.

If there's a chance of run on orders, might some of these trains be extended to say 8, or reduced to 4 and carriages slotted in to new trains?

Clearly someone is going to want to snap these trains up, as they're great at moving large numbers of people. Even when I've been on a very busy 700 with loads of people standing, it still feels like you have more room to breathe.

 

[Envy123]

I was surprised that the peak time Kings Cross service today from New Southgate (08:35, particularly) was a reskinned Southern train.

 

[D365]

I was surprised that the peak time Kings Cross service today from New Southgate (08:35, particularly) was a reskinned Southern train.

A Class 387? With the green doors I take it

 

[AndyW33]

Everybody seems to have forgotten the 5-car 707s which MTR/First have decided to ditch...

Just sayin'

They'll be ever so popular on Kings Lynn services, given that one of the stated reasons for ditching them is that they don't have toilets....

 

[Envy123]

A Class 387? With the green doors I take it

Looked on Wikipedia and yes, that's the one.

Surprisingly, the class 313 seats are a lot more comfortable than the class 387 ones. Not sure if it's just me, though.

 

[D365]

Surprisingly, the class 313 seats are a lot more comfortable than the class 387 ones. Not sure if it's just me, though.

Don't think it's just you, there was a whole pantomime about it on this forum for a number of months.

 

[Clansman]

Don't think it's just you, there was a whole pantomime about it on this forum for a number of months.

It was a top notch pantomime so it was

 

[Hadders]

Looked on Wikipedia and yes, that's the one.

Surprisingly, the class 313 seats are a lot more comfortable than the class 387 ones. Not sure if it's just me, though.

Take a look at the Class 700 thread or the 387 to GN Thread. I really don't understand how anyone can claim that an ironing board seat is more comfortable than the seats on a 365...

 

[wls1]

I stand by the motion that all seats are much more comfortable than standing, especially on one with standing room favoured.

Anyway i don't find the 387 seats uncomfortable, just they're a bit harder than older ones.

 

[Mordac]

It was a top notch pantomime so it was

Oh no it wasn't!

 

[whoosh]

Rumours of 365 s being planned to have DOO bodyside cameras and in-cab monitors fitted.

 

[D365]

Rumours of 365 s being planned to have DOO bodyside cameras and in-cab monitors fitted.

I mean, it would make sense, since the rest of the post-2018 GN rolling stock will be fitted...

 

[Hadders]

Let's hope they do all 40 units and keep the lot on GN.

 

[jopsuk]

There aren't the services to use all 40.

Fitting on-train DOO equipment would allow all platform DOO equipment (mirrors and camera+monitors) to be decommissioned, rather than maintaining them for peak time services only.

 

[bramling]

There aren't the services to use all 40.

Fitting on-train DOO equipment would allow all platform DOO equipment (mirrors and camera+monitors) to be decommissioned, rather than maintaining them for peak time services only.

There would be enough services if fewer services are routed into the Thameslink network, which a lot of people hope will happen. The surplus Undesirable units could then be used for true inner-suburban services, for which they are far more suitable.

As for bodyside cameras, this is surely positive news for the 365s, as it increases their re-use desirability in a market where there will be a surplus of EMUs.

 

[Hadders]

There would be enough services if fewer services are routed into the Thameslink network, which a lot of people hope will happen. The surplus Undesirable units could then be used for true inner-suburban services, for which they are far more suitable.

As for bodyside cameras, this is surely positive news for the 365s, as it increases their re-use desirability in a market where there will be a surplus of EMUs.

Well put. I'm currently on a 365 between Stevenage and Peterborough. They provide an appropriate level of comfort for a 50 minute journey. A 387 ironing board would just about be tolerable but I wouldn't fancy doing this journey on a 700 ironing board, given their narrowness and poor leg room.

 

[bramling]

Well put. I'm currently on a 365 between Stevenage and Peterborough. They provide an appropriate level of comfort for a 50 minute journey. A 387 ironing board would just about be tolerable but I wouldn't fancy doing this journey on a 700 ironing board, given their narrowness and poor leg room.

What I don't understand is why some people seem so against the 317s/321s.

Last night I took a punt on the 1952 KX-Peterborough turning out 317s, and this hit lucky with 317337/342 turning up.

This particular service typically loads to about 60% for 317s, so the 3+2 seating means in theory nobody has to have someone sitting directly opposite them, thus most people on the train get ample legroom and don't have to sit directly next to someone else. I chose to sit in the motor car, the ride was still smoother than 387s, and with most windows open the temperature and airflow was just about perfect. Sitting in a trailer car (75% of the train) would reduce the noise level to virtually zero and improve the ride quality to near perfect. For peak hour journeys the 3+2 seating means a maximum number of people secure seats, which is what comes as top priority in every passenger survey - sure the 3+2 means it's a little cramped, but it's by no means unbearable and this should be seen as a fact of life for people who choose to travel in the high peak. The only thing slightly negative feature was performance was rather sluggish, I think this may have been a bad pair as they lost a bit of time and barely touched 100 mph.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I planned to go on a 317 yesterday, so looked on Realtime Trains and saw the sixteen thirty-something to Cambridge was booked as one, so I planned to go from Kings X to Finsbury Pk on it. It turned up and was a 365, so I went on the 387 five minutes later instead to try it out (It's just the same as a 377/6 or 377//7) and as soon as I got off a 317 arrived! I ran to the platform and the doors closed - I was so annoyed!!! Does anyone know when they will be withdrawn because I really want to go on a GN 317.

Btw the GN Class 321s have all been withdrawn. Hopefully the 319s will all be gone soon, they're pretty horrible.

 

[mic505]

The 317s go at the May timetable change, depending on all GN drivers trained on the 387s.

 

[swt class 450]

Surely the best option is for Great Northern to keep the entire fleet of class 365 trains. This would create extra capacity and allow many more trains to run as 12 coach trains. It would seem crazy to get rid of some of them when instead they could be used to create more capacity and longer trains to help reduce overcrowding.

 

[mic505]

The arrival of the Class 700 would solve that problem. Hence 21 go into warm store later this year.

 

[swt_passenger]

Surely the best option is for Great Northern to keep the entire fleet of class 365 trains. This would create extra capacity and allow many more trains to run as 12 coach trains. It would seem crazy to get rid of some of them when instead they could be used to create more capacity and longer trains to help reduce overcrowding.

Only if you completely ignore line capacity, terminal platform lengths and capacity, depot capacity, stabling sidings etc, etc. Oh and I forgot the extra costs. Otherwise great idea...

 

[Envy123]

Don't think it's just you, there was a whole pantomime about it on this forum for a number of months.

Good to know it wasn't just me.

Take a look at the Class 700 thread or the 387 to GN Thread. I really don't understand how anyone can claim that an ironing board seat is more comfortable than the seats on a 365...

My backside hurt like heck, after a few minutes of sitting in a Class 700. I sure hope that the Class 800s will still be comfortable, but someone on here said otherwise...

 

[Failed Unit]

I planned to go on a 317 yesterday, so looked on Realtime Trains and saw the sixteen thirty-something to Cambridge was booked as one, so I planned to go from Kings X to Finsbury Pk on it. It turned up and was a 365, so I went on the 387 five minutes later instead to try it out (It's just the same as a 377/6 or 377//7) and as soon as I got off a 317 arrived! I ran to the platform and the doors closed - I was so annoyed!!! Does anyone know when they will be withdrawn because I really want to go on a GN 317.

Btw the GN Class 321s have all been withdrawn. Hopefully the 319s will all be gone soon, they're pretty horrible.

Ones I know about.

0703 and 0844 Welwyn garden city - London.
0834 Letchworth - London

1752 London - Royston
1758 London - Welwyn Garden City

Others exist mainly in the peak. But the do still cover other 365 operated services. Even the ones that are fast to Cambridge.

 

[bramling]

Ones I know about.

0703 and 0844 Welwyn garden city - London.
0834 Letchworth - London

1752 London - Royston
1758 London - Welwyn Garden City

Others exist mainly in the peak. But the do still cover other 365 operated services. Even the ones that are fast to Cambridge.

With the last few weeks having been something of a 317 farewell gala, the 365 diagrams most likely to turn up 317s are as follows:

(Be aware it will be observed these diagrams do not balance, therefore this list is by no means exclusive, also the first two diagrams sometimes swap at Cambridge during the midday period).

ECS Hornsey Depot-KX
1P40 0622 KX-Peterborough
1P11 0746 Peterborough-KX
1C10 0914 KX-Cambridge
1C21 1015 Cambridge-KX
1C18 1114 KX-Cambridge
1C37 1415 Cambridge-KX
1P58 1522 KX-Peterborough
1P71 1646 Peterborough-KX
1P70 1843 KX-Peterborough
2P65 2016 Peterborough-KX
1P32 2207 KX-Peterborough
ECS Peterborough-Peterborough Nene Sidings

ECS Peterborough Nene Sidings-Peterborough
2P91 0547 Peterborough-KX
1P42 0722 KX-Peterborough
1P53 0846 Peterborough-KX
1C14 1014 KX-Cambridge
1C01 1515 Cambridge-KX
1P10 1640 KX-Peterborough
1P75 1754 Peterborough-KX
1P74 1922 KX-Peterborough
ECS Peterborough-Hornsey Depot

ECS Peterborough Nene Sidings-Peterborough
1P47 0706 Peterborough-KX
ECS KX-Letchworth
2R41 1000 Letchworth-KX
1P50 1122 KX-Peterborough
1P63 1246 Peterborough-KX
1P56 1422 KX-Peterborough
1P69 1546 Peterborough-KX
1T02 1714 KX-Ely
1T15 1829 Ely-KX
1P76 1952 KX-Peterborough
ECS Peterborough-Peterborough Nene Sidings

ECS Hornsey Depot-KX
1R12 1723 KX-Royston
ECS Royston-KX
1P72 1910 KX-Peterborough
1P81 2044 Peterborough-KX
1P82 2222 KX-Peterborough
ECS Peterborough-Peterborough Nene Sidings