Class 345 progress

[samuelmorris]

Yes it will, but not yet - I think that's the point being made. If you take it at face value now, you'd go looking for signage of how to get to the Northern line, not see any, ask a member of staff who could well suggest you take the tube one stop along...

 

[D365]

Looks likely to be future-proofing their eventual intent to give the Overground routes line names.

Oh, great. I've not got anything against the monarchy but does this mean more royal names??!

 

[ijmad]

Yes it will, but not yet - I think that's the point being made. If you take it at face value now, you'd go looking for signage of how to get to the Northern line, not see any, ask a member of staff who could well suggest you take the tube one stop along...

Making the change will involve going down to Crossrail and walking along a 250m platform to the exit at the other end which goes up to Moorgate, as can be seen in the 3D of Liverpool Street Crossrail:

Not exactly ideal and a very long walk with a lot of unnecessary level changes.

It might be better to send people at the High Level station to the Central Circle (Ed: typo) Line one stop, so not advertise the Northern Line connection for them.

 

[samuelmorris]

Indeed, but surely not the Central line? Changing from Northern to Central at Bank is barely any less tedious...

 

[Rick1984]

You think they'd have put a moving walkway between the platforms. I thought that's how they'd build all these 'Superstations'

 

[ijmad]

Indeed, but surely not the Central line? Changing from Northern to Central at Bank is barely any less tedious...

Typo! Meant the Circle (or Met or H&C, ya know, those ones..)

 

[Fincra5]

Indeed, but surely not the Central line? Changing from Northern to Central at Bank is barely any less tedious...

I was gonna say the walk between tube lines at Greenpark is hardly all that close. So I can't see the issue for it.

You should try some of the interchanges on the NewYork Subway... some of them are like 20mins underground but count as a "change"

 

[Bringback309s]

O
I can quite imagine simplifying to "next station" can make a genuine difference for the hordes of tourists, many with limited English, who will use the line.

Much the same in Germany.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRdiub3SUE4

 

[matt_world2004]

You think they'd have put a moving walkway between the platforms. I thought that's how they'd build all these 'Superstations'

There is its called the hammersmith and city line

 

[cactustwirly]

Much the same in Germany.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRdiub3SUE4

Example from Frankfurt (S bahn):

https://youtu.be/hqlo92BFkRw?t=4m19s

 

[class387]

Much the same in Germany.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRdiub3SUE4

Personally it reminds me of the announcements on Hong Kong (and Beijing) MTR, so could it be a company thing.

 

[JW16]

Omitting the list of stations makes sense when it's an all-stations service. Reeling off the full calling pattern on a service to Reading would be hellish during the short stops at the outer edges when stations are still close together.

Fair point and I'm sure that will be fine in 2019 when the timetable goes all-stations and the whole route is open, but right now most peak services omit two or three stations. Once on the train there is no way of knowing which stations the train calls at other than the next three.

 

[samuelmorris]

Most peak services. Yes, I agree that when they run peak services that omit certain stations a distinction needs to be made. It's not relevant for the preliminary services but I do hope that a distinct announcement gets made regarding that.

 

[swt class 450]

I must say i have been on these trains a few more times now and the announcements on these trains are just awful. The voice (Emma Hignett) is very good but it is the format that is the problem.

The worst ones are once the doors are released the announcement simply says the station name. For example at Maryland it just says "Maryland" with no other words. Its the same for all stations. At the very least they could say "This is Maryland" but just saying one word sounds very random and confusing. And its certainly not good english to just blurt out one word as without any other words that station name has no meaning to it. How are people who aren't familiar with the area meant to know if this is referring to this station or the next station or the destination station. It is just awful.

And then between stations i don't like how it says for example "Next station Maryland". This is also not very good english. It should say "The next station is Maryland" or something like that.

Also i don't like how it says "Exit for" at some stations. It should be "Alight here for" instead. This sounds much clearer.

Finally i don't like how it says "Change here for London Overground and National Rail services". London Overground is a TOC and is a National Rail service so whether or not Arriva Rail London and TFL want to admit it it is exactly the same as AGA / SWT / GWR / GTR etc. So the announcements should either say "Change here for Abellio Greater Anglia , C2C , and London Overground services" or it should say "Change here for National Rail services".

If i was in charge i would have done the announcements like this:

• This train is for Shenfield. Calling at Stratford , Maryland , Forest Gate , Manor Park , Ilford , Seven Kings , Goodmayes , Chadwell Heath , Romford , Gidea Park , Harold Wood , Brentwood , and Shenfield.

• The next station is Stratford. Change here for the Central Line , Jubilee Line , Docklands Light Railway , Local Bus Services and other National Rail services. Alight here for the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.

• We are now approaching Stratford. Change here for the Central Line , Jubilee Line , Docklands Light Railway , Local Bus Services and other National Rail services. Alight here for the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.

• The door buttons are now activated. Please mind the gap and the step down between the train and the platform edge. This station is Stratford. Change here for the Central Line , Jubilee Line , Docklands Light Railway , Local Bus Services and other National Rail services. Alight here for the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.

• This train is for Shenfield. Calling at Maryland , Forest Gate , Manor Park , Ilford , Seven Kings , Goodmayes , Chadwell Heath , Romford , Gidea Park , Harold Wood , Brentwood , and Shenfield.

• The next station is Maryland. Change here for local bus services.

• We are now approaching Maryland. Change Here for local bus services.

• The door buttons are now activated. Please mind the gap and the step down between the train and the platform edge. This station is Maryland. Change here for local bus services.

• This train is for Shenfield. Calling at Forest Gate , Manor Park , Ilford , Seven Kings , Goodmayes , Chadwell Heath , Romford , Gidea Park , Harold Wood , Brentwood , and Shenfield.

etc etc etc

So i think a lot of improvement is needed for these announcements.

 

[306024]

• The next station is Stratford. Change here for the Central Line , Jubilee Line , Docklands Light Railway , Local Bus Services and other National Rail services. Alight here for the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.

• We are now approaching Stratford. Change here for the Central Line , Jubilee Line , Docklands Light Railway , Local Bus Services and other National Rail services. Alight here for the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.

And you would fit all that lot in between Maryland and Stratford?

Being told to pack my gels and liquids in a clear plastic bag every time I travel between Tottenham Hale and Harlow Town (in three languages) personally I'm pleased the announcements are brief and to the point.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Do they have route map posters onboard like what you find on LU trains, which show what lines connect at each station?

 

[class387]

I must say i have been on these trains a few more times now and the announcements on these trains are just awful. The voice (Emma Hignett) is very good but it is the format that is the problem.

The worst ones are once the doors are released the announcement simply says the station name. For example at Maryland it just says "Maryland" with no other words. Its the same for all stations. At the very least they could say "This is Maryland" but just saying one word sounds very random and confusing. And its certainly not good english to just blurt out one word as without any other words that station name has no meaning to it. How are people who aren't familiar with the area meant to know if this is referring to this station or the next station or the destination station. It is just awful.

And then between stations i don't like how it says for example "Next station Maryland". This is also not very good english. It should say "The next station is Maryland" or something like that.

Also i don't like how it says "Exit for" at some stations. It should be "Alight here for" instead. This sounds much clearer.

Finally i don't like how it says "Change here for London Overground and National Rail services". London Overground is a TOC and is a National Rail service so whether or not Arriva Rail London and TFL want to admit it it is exactly the same as AGA / SWT / GWR / GTR etc. So the announcements should either say "Change here for Abellio Greater Anglia , C2C , and London Overground services" or it should say "Change here for National Rail services".

If i was in charge i would have done the announcements like this:

• This train is for Shenfield. Calling at Stratford , Maryland , Forest Gate , Manor Park , Ilford , Seven Kings , Goodmayes , Chadwell Heath , Romford , Gidea Park , Harold Wood , Brentwood , and Shenfield.

• The next station is Stratford. Change here for the Central Line , Jubilee Line , Docklands Light Railway , Local Bus Services and other National Rail services. Alight here for the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.

• We are now approaching Stratford. Change here for the Central Line , Jubilee Line , Docklands Light Railway , Local Bus Services and other National Rail services. Alight here for the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.

• The door buttons are now activated. Please mind the gap and the step down between the train and the platform edge. This station is Stratford. Change here for the Central Line , Jubilee Line , Docklands Light Railway , Local Bus Services and other National Rail services. Alight here for the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.

• This train is for Shenfield. Calling at Maryland , Forest Gate , Manor Park , Ilford , Seven Kings , Goodmayes , Chadwell Heath , Romford , Gidea Park , Harold Wood , Brentwood , and Shenfield.

• The next station is Maryland. Change here for local bus services.

• We are now approaching Maryland. Change Here for local bus services.

• The door buttons are now activated. Please mind the gap and the step down between the train and the platform edge. This station is Maryland. Change here for local bus services.

• This train is for Shenfield. Calling at Forest Gate , Manor Park , Ilford , Seven Kings , Goodmayes , Chadwell Heath , Romford , Gidea Park , Harold Wood , Brentwood , and Shenfield.

etc etc etc

So i think a lot of improvement is needed for these announcements.

Yes, we understand that you dislike the 345s by now.

Yes, there are problems with the announcements, both by design and faults (cutting out "next station"), but your ones are almost certainly worse. How are you supposed to fit in the whole calling pattern from Shenfield to Reading in a two minute time between stops?

 

[CosherB]

I must say i have been on these trains a few more times now and the announcements on these trains are just awful. The voice (Emma Hignett) is very good but it is the format that is the problem.

The worst ones are once the doors are released the announcement simply says the station name. For example at Maryland it just says "Maryland" with no other words. Its the same for all stations. At the very least they could say "This is Maryland" but just saying one word sounds very random and confusing. And its certainly not good english to just blurt out one word as without any other words that station name has no meaning to it. How are people who aren't familiar with the area meant to know if this is referring to this station or the next station or the destination station. It is just awful.

And then between stations i don't like how it says for example "Next station Maryland". This is also not very good english. It should say "The next station is Maryland" or something like that.

Also i don't like how it says "Exit for" at some stations. It should be "Alight here for" instead. This sounds much clearer.

Finally i don't like how it says "Change here for London Overground and National Rail services". London Overground is a TOC and is a National Rail service so whether or not Arriva Rail London and TFL want to admit it it is exactly the same as AGA / SWT / GWR / GTR etc. So the announcements should either say "Change here for Abellio Greater Anglia , C2C , and London Overground services" or it should say "Change here for National Rail services".

If i was in charge i would have done the announcements like this:

• This train is for Shenfield. Calling at Stratford , Maryland , Forest Gate , Manor Park , Ilford , Seven Kings , Goodmayes , Chadwell Heath , Romford , Gidea Park , Harold Wood , Brentwood , and Shenfield.

• The next station is Stratford. Change here for the Central Line , Jubilee Line , Docklands Light Railway , Local Bus Services and other National Rail services. Alight here for the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.

• We are now approaching Stratford. Change here for the Central Line , Jubilee Line , Docklands Light Railway , Local Bus Services and other National Rail services. Alight here for the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.

• The door buttons are now activated. Please mind the gap and the step down between the train and the platform edge. This station is Stratford. Change here for the Central Line , Jubilee Line , Docklands Light Railway , Local Bus Services and other National Rail services. Alight here for the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.

• This train is for Shenfield. Calling at Maryland , Forest Gate , Manor Park , Ilford , Seven Kings , Goodmayes , Chadwell Heath , Romford , Gidea Park , Harold Wood , Brentwood , and Shenfield.

• The next station is Maryland. Change here for local bus services.

• We are now approaching Maryland. Change Here for local bus services.

• The door buttons are now activated. Please mind the gap and the step down between the train and the platform edge. This station is Maryland. Change here for local bus services.

• This train is for Shenfield. Calling at Forest Gate , Manor Park , Ilford , Seven Kings , Goodmayes , Chadwell Heath , Romford , Gidea Park , Harold Wood , Brentwood , and Shenfield.

etc etc etc

So i think a lot of improvement is needed for these announcements.

Clearly you have missed out on your true vocation!

 

[jon0844]

I don't see any problem with saying Next Station Stratford if the voice says it correctly, with a suitable pause.

But I do agree about saying 'This is' or having some sort of alert to make people get ready to listen. Otherwise it's too easy to miss the word/station said if there's no build up.

Otherwise, it's all about KISS!

 

[spark001uk]

Love the essay. But seriously, most of Joe public, be it half asleep after a hard day's work, or just a general jaunt, their brain is going to be listening for one word - their stop, whatever padding it has probably isn't going to matter to most people. It's concise and to the point. Like their loading model - pile on, pile off. Nice and easy.

 

[macaronlover]

Fair point and I'm sure that will be fine in 2019 when the timetable goes all-stations and the whole route is open, but right now most peak services omit two or three stations. Once on the train there is no way of knowing which stations the train calls at other than the next three.

Agreed, but when the whole line is up and running in 2019 NONE of the services will be 'all stations' services. Except for Liverpool Street (high level) <-> Gidea Park/Shenfield/Ilford, which is peak times only. Hence it will be intersting to see how they will show 'station skipping' information on the LCD Screens.

 

[macaronlover]

Do they have route map posters onboard like what you find on LU trains, which show what lines connect at each station?

Yes they do, but not at the vestibules. Anyone standing in this area would need to refer to the LCD display.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Do we really need to know the door buttons are activated.

There is already a sound for it I assume like there is on most modern stock?

 

[JW16]

And you would fit all that lot in between Maryland and Stratford?

Being told to pack my gels and liquids in a clear plastic bag every time I travel between Tottenham Hale and Harlow Town (in three languages) personally I'm pleased the announcements are brief and to the point.

Harlow and Bishops Stortford commuters must get sick of that!

The announcements don't need a complete overhaul, but a few small tweaks would make a positive difference.

 

[macaronlover]

That's right

I developed the PIS on Class 345

Hopefully the information screens are not segmented.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Fingers crossed going on one tomorrow!

 

[swt class 450]

Another thing i forgot to mention is that the automated announcements seem really cheap and poor quality as they regularly stutter. For example on one of the 345s i went on it ended up stuttering and saying "Strat....ford" and i heard it at a few other stations as well. So i think that needs to be sorted out as well. I'm not sure what is causing this.

 

[phoenixcronin]

They could literally have copied the (excellent IMHO) Julie Berry announcements from the 315s. Very clear, concise and a pleasant voice.

Not this jittery crap

 

[samuelmorris]

swt_class_450: I appreciate the sentiment of that post but I have to say I think some of those suggestions are a bit daft.

Also i don't like how it says "Exit for" at some stations. It should be "Alight here for" instead. This sounds much clearer.

For non-native speakers, the opposite is definitely true. Even to native English speakers, it's obvious what exit means - it's particularly relevant in those cases, as you do have to exit the station, it's not a simple interchange.

Finally i don't like how it says "Change here for London Overground and National Rail services". London Overground is a TOC and is a National Rail service so whether or not Arriva Rail London and TFL want to admit it it is exactly the same as AGA / SWT / GWR / GTR etc. So the announcements should either say "Change here for Abellio Greater Anglia , C2C , and London Overground services" or it should say "Change here for National Rail services".

I do understand that point, but the Overground is on the tube map, those other TOCs are not. Mouthy announcements like that are only really suitable for longer distance services when such an announcement has plenty of time to play and won't happen too often. On a metro service it's entirely inappropriate. As things currently stand with the way TfL works, announcing London Underground as a separate entity like the DLR but lumping all other National Rail TOCs together is the correct way to do it. The same will be true of tube services announcing the Elizabeth line as a distinct tube entity rather than a national rail service.
The only oddity is the word 'lines' after London Overground, that is a bit unusual, but as other have said, implies they may eventually start properly distinguishing betweeen the myriad of LO services - doing so is long overdue.

This train is for Shenfield. Calling at Stratford , Maryland , Forest Gate , Manor Park , Ilford , Seven Kings , Goodmayes , Chadwell Heath , Romford , Gidea Park , Harold Wood , Brentwood , and Shenfield.

On any normal service, yes. With a calling pattern as intensive as Crossrail, this is only necessary if there is any likelihood a stop will be omitted. Otherwise, 'This train calls all stations to... est>, the next stop will be <Next>' suffices.
I disagree that you should announce the changes at the next stop before departing the previous one - added confusion and unnecessary announcement spam, especially since you won't be able to fit that announcement in twice at Stratford before arriving at Maryland.

The door buttons are now activated.

Absolutely not - there's already a sounder for this exact purpose.

Please mind the gap and the step down between the train and the platform edge.

Only at stations where this is necessary.

F_Great_Eastern]
There is already a sound for it I assume like there is on most modern stock?

Yes - https://youtu.be/evXTigdjUVM?t=64

 

[ijmad]

Does anyone know what the door opening policy will be with Crossrail's 345s eventually?

Are we going to have tube-style automatic opening, or Overground/NR style push button to open?

I hope they're not going to do something inconsistent like push button to open at outer stations and auto open for the tunnel with platform edge doors. Inconsistency is bad, it will only serve to confuse people unfamiliar with the line.