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Class 315 Withdrawals

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samuelmorris

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It's the peaks themselves that matter. Pre-covid, anticipated growth on the line meant capacity had to go up and with longer trains not an option and the lines from Liverpool Street not permitting more trains to run, all they could do was change the 710s to be all-longitudinal to maximise peak crush capacity. Admittedly far less important now, but some point in the future I expect that demand will return.
 
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Ewan M

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I was gutted not to get any of the remaining LO 315s in London last month but at least I did get one journey on 315804 from Seven Sisters to Hackney Downs in July 2015 as well as TfL Rail pair 315820 + 315819 from Liverpool Street to Stratford in September last year.
On a more somber note, do we know which pair are next to head to Newport for disposal?
 
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315802 and 807 after a brief spell at ilford and northampton are due to head to booths rotherham on 5/11. for their last trip on the uk rail network
 

221101 Voyager

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There doesn't seem to be any at all in the remainder of this week.

Keep checking as things change rapidly as everyone knows.
 
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DBS92042

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I was gutted not to get any of the remaining LO 315s in London last month but at least I did get one journey on 315804 from Seven Sisters to Hackney Downs in July 2015 as well as TfL Rail pair 315820 + 315819 from Liverpool Street to Stratford in September last year.
On a more somber note, do we know which pair are next to head to Newport for disposal?
I could be wrong, but I believe 315830 & 315824 are off to Sims Newport this Thursday
 

221101 Voyager

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20atthemagnet

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Just to clear up any doubt, 315802 and 315807 did the planned Chingford - Enfield - Chingford round trip and went back into Chingford sidings at 15.30. They haven't stayed out as suggested last night.

Sad to see them go but plenty of enthusiasts turned out to see them off. Staff were on hand to give out souvenir badges and pens at Liverpool Street and there was even a DJ at Chingford. Nice to see the 315s' passing on the West Anglia locals getting some recognition.

It might be nostalgia clouding my judgement, but I was really disappointed with the two 710s I rode. Much rougher riding than the 315s, plenty of squeaks and rattles from the couplers and appalling seating. All longitudinal seating inside is a strange call for fairly lightly used routes outside the peaks. I really think the 315s were ideally suited to routes like Chingford.

Wasn’t able to keep them out during the day, some internal things meant that wasn’t possible so the original plan stood firm.

While I respect everybody’s opinion on these trains unfortunately there is a massive disconnect between enthusiasts and people who actually work in/run the railway. Whilst I have nothing against the 315 and for my time in the railway they were very very good in terms of reliability they needed to be replaced. Massively uncomfortable for those who drove them, although relatively simple to operate. There comes a point in the life cycle of a unit where something has to give. Things change and the world moves on. Towards the end of the life of the 315 it became very apparent that to keep them running was becoming inherently difficult/expensive. Many suppliers of parts no longer even exist, with many issues cropping up being completely unrectifiable. Corrosion/subframe/structural issues....they were patched /plastered/taped over to almost the state where they were unrecognisable under the hood from the units they once were. Theres only so many times you could call up MTR and ask if you could take Motor components from one of their units going for scrap or as it became common in the latter part of their operation, borrowing entire units completely because it was cheaper than to attempt a repair on an LO one up for exam to keep them running.

710s are people eaters. That’s all they designed to do and they do that very well, all be it at the expense of comfort. Because we can’t increase capacity on WA without a massive timetable change or astronomical infrastructure modifications, they are exactly what WA needed (pre COVID anyway). And the vast majority of passengers who use the services want nothing more than to get from a to b in a relatively comfortable environment, through hot/cold/busy/quiet, (during the mixed fleet stage you’d be surprised how many people actually had no idea there was a different train pulling into the platform) and an operator wants a unit that has commonality with other parts their business well as a good maintenance contract/regime, so that when things don’t go so well problems are easily rectifiable in acceptable timeframes/minimal cost. 710s represent what running a modern railway is all about these days unfortunately.

So I’m surprised 315s survived as long as they did to be honest. However it is a true testament to them that they managed to get this far and shows that BREL did some cracking engineering. When I look around at some of the other units coming out of Bombardier/CAF/Siemens/Stadler, I doubt they’ll have the same sort of lifespan of the 315. But no doubt they’ll be replaced by yet another modern EMU that will be lighter/higher capicity/cheaper/more energy efficient than the one it replaces, because that is unfortunately what building a train is about in the modern world.
 

306024

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The next lot to go would be the TfL Rail I believe those will go I think the date that's floating around is 21st March

Let’s sink that date then. 315s will survive longer than that on the Shenfield line as Liverpool St platforms aren’t lengthened until after Easter 21, and it will then take time to swap 9 car 345s into the workings. No firm date for the final demise at this stage.
 
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WesternLancer

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Wasn’t able to keep them out during the day, some internal things meant that wasn’t possible so the original plan stood firm.

While I respect everybody’s opinion on these trains unfortunately there is a massive disconnect between enthusiasts and people who actually work in/run the railway. Whilst I have nothing against the 315 and for my time in the railway they were very very good in terms of reliability they needed to be replaced. Massively uncomfortable for those who drove them, although relatively simple to operate. There comes a point in the life cycle of a unit where something has to give. Things change and the world moves on. Towards the end of the life of the 315 it became very apparent that to keep them running was becoming inherently difficult/expensive. Many suppliers of parts no longer even exist, with many issues cropping up being completely unrectifiable. Corrosion/subframe/structural issues....they were patched /plastered/taped over to almost the state where they were unrecognisable under the hood from the units they once were. Theres only so many times you could call up MTR and ask if you could take Motor components from one of their units going for scrap or as it became common in the latter part of their operation, borrowing entire units completely because it was cheaper than to attempt a repair on an LO one up for exam to keep them running.

710s are people eaters. That’s all they designed to do and they do that very well, all be it at the expense of comfort. Because we can’t increase capacity on WA without a massive timetable change or astronomical infrastructure modifications, they are exactly what WA needed (pre COVID anyway). And the vast majority of passengers who use the services want nothing more than to get from a to b in a relatively comfortable environment, through hot/cold/busy/quiet, (during the mixed fleet stage you’d be surprised how many people actually had no idea there was a different train pulling into the platform) and an operator wants a unit that has commonality with other parts their business well as a good maintenance contract/regime, so that when things don’t go so well problems are easily rectifiable in acceptable timeframes/minimal cost. 710s represent what running a modern railway is all about these days unfortunately.

So I’m surprised 315s survived as long as they did to be honest. However it is a true testament to them that they managed to get this far and shows that BREL did some cracking engineering. When I look around at some of the other units coming out of Bombardier/CAF/Siemens/Stadler, I doubt they’ll have the same sort of lifespan of the 315. But no doubt they’ll be replaced by yet another modern EMU that will be lighter/higher capicity/cheaper/more energy efficient than the one it replaces, because that is unfortunately what building a train is about in the modern world.
Some good commentary there. All good things end. But the UK deserves a decent preserved PEP unit as they really do mark an important turning point in commuter train travel in the UK. They seemed transformational to me at the time, like the HST and APT. But yes, things move on. Nicely written post.
 

Ewan M

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BJames

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@20atthemagnet Being a regular WA traveller I completely agree with that - I travelled with my friends a while back when the 710s were just starting out and not a single one of them noticed that it was a different train until I brought it up. After one did say the seats were less comfortable than she was expecting but this is hardly an issue for journeys of maximum 35-40 minutes. Should see the New York subway - the seats are simply metal. The 710s are a vast improvement, and while it's a shame I wasn't able to see the last 315, I've been on enough of them over the last few years and am more than happy to finally see a long overdue change.
 

sjoh

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I grew up with the 315's on my local route from Chingford into London. Many a memory of sneaking off into town to see friends on them! Sad they're gone, but they've had a good innings and I'll remember them fondly.
 

O L Leigh

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While I respect everybody’s opinion on these trains unfortunately there is a massive disconnect between enthusiasts and people who actually work in/run the railway. Whilst I have nothing against the 315 and for my time in the railway they were very very good in terms of reliability they needed to be replaced. Massively uncomfortable for those who drove them, although relatively simple to operate. There comes a point in the life cycle of a unit where something has to give. Things change and the world moves on. Towards the end of the life of the 315 it became very apparent that to keep them running was becoming inherently difficult/expensive. Many suppliers of parts no longer even exist, with many issues cropping up being completely unrectifiable. Corrosion/subframe/structural issues....they were patched /plastered/taped over to almost the state where they were unrecognisable under the hood from the units they once were. Theres only so many times you could call up MTR and ask if you could take Motor components from one of their units going for scrap or as it became common in the latter part of their operation, borrowing entire units completely because it was cheaper than to attempt a repair on an LO one up for exam to keep them running.

So I’m surprised 315s survived as long as they did to be honest. However it is a true testament to them that they managed to get this far and shows that BREL did some cracking engineering. When I look around at some of the other units coming out of Bombardier/CAF/Siemens/Stadler, I doubt they’ll have the same sort of lifespan of the 315. But no doubt they’ll be replaced by yet another modern EMU that will be lighter/higher capicity/cheaper/more energy efficient than the one it replaces, because that is unfortunately what building a train is about in the modern world.

I had the pleasure of working Cl315s over the WA routes for several years, and I have a huge soft spot for them. They were rugged, no-nonsense units that just ran and ran. Sure the cab was a bit uncomfortable, but you were never really going far enough on one for it to have become an issue. They were spritely out of the blocks and had decent brakes to boot, and I thoroughly enjoyed working them.

Sadly I have to agree that their time has finally come. They were brilliant units and have served the Liv St suburban network well, but they are getting rather old-fashioned now. I hadn't been on a PEP unit for ages and then rode on a few Cl314s around Glasgow last year and was shocked at just how poor the passenger saloons were. I couldn't imagine that the Cl315s had been as bad, but I guess they must have been and it was just my memory playing tricks.

All good things must come to an end. Farewell old friend.
 

Wivenswold

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I makes more sense to save a 313, dual voltage n'all that. They do have a small connection with Greater Anglia, having worked into Liverpool Street after Broad Street closed and also ran the Colchester to Walton service in the 80s.
 

bramling

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I makes more sense to save a 313, dual voltage n'all that. They do have a small connection with Greater Anglia, having worked into Liverpool Street after Broad Street closed and also ran the Colchester to Walton service in the 80s.

The trouble with saving a 313 is that all the surviving examples have been heavily modified inside. The best ones to preserve would have been the three GN examples which retained the original seating.

I’d say having a unit in original condition is quite valuable for this generation of units as they were such a step-change at the time they were introduced.

The 315s are the most unchanged now.
 

WesternLancer

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I makes more sense to save a 313, dual voltage n'all that. They do have a small connection with Greater Anglia, having worked into Liverpool Street after Broad Street closed and also ran the Colchester to Walton service in the 80s.
Well the 313 in BR livery - (313001? Not checked) is supposedly on the NRM 'acquisition list' or whatever they call it, which is good if they hold to it. Just a shame that the original interiors on those Southern 313's are gone, whilst the ones on the 315 do give a feel for how they looked back in the day. I tend to think for a museum's purposes the historical context for the general public, is better conveyed by the original interior of rolling stock, where possible to achieve that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The trouble with saving a 313 is that all the surviving examples have been heavily modified inside. The best ones to preserve would have been the three GN examples which retained the original seating.

I’d say having a unit in original condition is quite valuable for this generation of units as they were such a step-change at the time they were introduced.

The 315s are the most unchanged now.
well we just made the exact same point at the same moment!
 

DBS92042

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Does anyone know which 315 (802 or 807) was the rear unit on the 5Q30 Ilford to Northampton move today? I only just managed to catch a glimpse of that one from a distance.
Thanks in advance
 

221101 Voyager

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Does anyone know which 315 (802 or 807) was the rear unit on the 5Q30 Ilford to Northampton move today? I only just managed to catch a glimpse of that one from a distance.
Thanks in advance
I filmed and photographed it and can confirm it was 807 at the front and 802 was at the rear. :)
 

Ewan M

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315824 + 315830 are now en-route to Newport for their date with the scrap men. ROG’s finest 37884 once again doing the drag
 
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D365

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But no doubt they’ll be replaced by yet another modern EMU that will be lighter/higher capicity/cheaper/more energy efficient than the one it replaces, because that is unfortunately what building a train is about in the modern world.

“Unfortunately”? Surely those are all good things?
 

DustyBin

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“Unfortunately”? Surely those are all good things?
I think ‘unfortunately’ because there’s no suggestion of comfort!

That’s my take on it too. Unfortunately I think we’ve seen the ‘peak’ in terms of passenger comfort and are now regressing. As I write this I’m waiting for an ‘Azuma’ to arrive, the joys....
 
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