Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

[wobman]

Good question. I am guessing TfW currently use a 150 (four double doors) or 2x153 (four single doors) or maybe 3 if the conductor doesn't want you using that door. Like you I haven't travelled on a DMU service over there, but I struggle to see the issue.

What is becoming apparent to me is the innocence TfW seem to have displayed when signing the Vivarail contract. I genuinely believed Vivarail would have researched the intended operation to the Nth degree, then specced 230006-010 accordingly, particularly in view of Vivarail's experience with 230001, and 230003-005.

Having said that, how much has been changed by TfW from the original plan? Were Vivarail expecting TfW to service the 230s at Wrexham, rather than run ECS to Chester for servicing, but then servicing at Birkenhead, then talk of a depot at Dee Marsh.

Vivarail's USP seems to be the environmental greenness of battery power with increasing ranges being achieved through more modern battery designs. This seems at odds with rumours by some that the TfW 230s cannot manage more than a day without refuelling.

Seems to be a lot of rumour smoke and mirrors

The afternoon training runs have been cancelled to accommodate the testing to find out the fuel consumption problems, vivarail can't seem to resolve it so far.

I keep getting told I'm quoting messroom gossip, but the facts are the 230's have been delayed again now it's may 2022 for there introduction.

If vivarail would have done the research you say they did, they could easily see Wrexham is not suitable for a depot. There's no road access / no depot buildings / no fueling point or facilities etc

Both parties haven't done themselves any favours in the project, plus there's still lots of issues to resolve before they come into service in may.

 

[Dstock7080]

The single-leaf doors were their Achilles heel on the Underground - they caused extended dwell times not only because of the narrower apertures but because they were slower in operation, as each door had to travel further when opening and closing.

Sorry but that's an urban myth, they had more door opening space than the trains they replaced: 4x 3.5' v. 1 or 2x 2.5' 2x 4.5', they cleared crowds quickly, opened/closed faster than the trains they replaced.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The main work has started at Wrexham central now, but the 230 units need modifications to isolate a door to fit at Buckley. So the 230's need that mod and traincrew training is ongoing, that's when the units are available and running.

The 230s are said to be 55m long.
Buckley station has (according to the SA) 52/53m platforms, Wrexham Central has a 52m platform. Heswall is 56m, others 60m+.
None of this can be a surprise.

 

[wobman]

The 230s are said to be 55m long.
Buckley station has (according to the SA) 52/53m platforms, Wrexham Central has a 52m platform. Heswall is 56m, others 60m+.
None of this can be a surprise.

Yes we know that but it was obviously a suprise to some people involved.....

 

[Zontar]

The 230s are said to be 55m long.
Buckley station has (according to the SA) 52/53m platforms, Wrexham Central has a 52m platform. Heswall is 56m, others 60m+.
None of this can be a surprise.

Exactly, it's utter madness the fact that they don't fit and having to do door mods even comes as a surprise....

Words fail me

 

[wobman]

Exactly, it's utter madness the fact that they don't fit and having to do door mods even comes as a surprise....

Words fail me

Why not build the units with SDO for the guards !!! I can't understand why if the units are full rebuilds that this wasn't just added to future proof the units.

The selling point is they are for running on rural lines, but there not set up for short platforms which are usually on rural line !

It's all very baffling what's going on with these units and project .....

 

[Skip 10]

The 230s are said to be 55m long.
Buckley station has (according to the SA) 52/53m platforms, Wrexham Central has a 52m platform. Heswall is 56m, others 60m+.
None of this can be a surprise.

Im led to believe both sides were made aware of the issues with train length v platform length at the design stage. The solution was the extention of the platforms. For what ever reason, this doesn't seem to be happening at Buckley.

As for the facilities available at Wrexham, there are people at Vivarail who are very familiar with Wrexham over the years.

I don't think either side is covered in glory, but I think it's 8-4 split rather than six of 1 and half a dozen of the other.

AFAIK 010 will arrive when the 1st unit goes to Crewe for the mods, due to limited space at depots currently.

From observations I note that 006 and 008 do the majority of the training runs, is there a reason 007 & 009 are quite shy?

 

[wobman]

Im led to believe both sides were made aware of the issues with train length v platform length at the design stage. The solution was the extention of the platforms. For what ever reason, this doesn't seem to be happening at Buckley.

As for the facilities available at Wrexham, there are people at Vivarail who are very familiar with Wrexham over the years.

I don't think either side is covered in glory, but I think it's 8-4 split rather than six of 1 and half a dozen of the other.

AFAIK 010 will arrive when the 1st unit goes to Crewe for the mods, due to limited space at depots currently.

From observations I note that 006 and 008 do the majority of the training runs, is there a reason 007 & 009 are quite shy?

A lot of the decisions on both sides are very baffling indeed, neither are coming out of this saga very well.

Regarding 006 & 008 all I can think is that they are the most reliable units, especially with the fuel usage saga is still ongoing.

 

[wobman]

I have accepted defeat in my aims to ride a TfW 230 this month. I can focus on other buses in Liverpool for now. I even reckon on postponing my 230 ride until I can easily combine it with a 777, potentially to West Kirby.

That's may 2022 at the earliest for the 230's & probably later for the 777's.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2021 ==

First time for a while there's 2 X 230's in the sidings at Chester, they must be getting refueled.

 

[Zontar]

230s sat in the yard, not training staff.

I personally think it's when, not if these units get axed. Although I would like to be proved wrong.

 

[Skip 10]

230s sat in the yard, not training staff.

I personally think it's when, not if these units get axed. Although I would like to be proved wrong.

AFAIK they are only booked to training runs on Tuesday-Thursday.

 

[wobman]

No 230 training again this week, due to lack of unit availablity. TFW announced a mix of units running in December a 230 and a 150 on the borderlands line. That's not happening now the next plan is May 2022 dependent on training.

If you pass Crewe LNWR Arriva traincare depot there is 230010 stabled there, as there's no room for it at Birkenhead North depot. It can only take 4 units on the depot, of the 4 units only 2 can be used & 006 / 008. They have been utilised for training when they actually run !

 

[DavidGrain]

A friend told me that he had seen 230010 at Crewe this afternoon. He also told me that he had seen a 777 there. I cannot think of a reason that either of those trains should have been there.

 

[PHILIPE]

A friend told me that he had seen 230010 at Crewe this afternoon. He also told me that he had seen a 777 there. I cannot think of a reason that either of those trains should have been there.

230010 is there because there is nowhere else to stable it as Birkenhead has no more room. 777s are being stabled there before things get moving with them

 

[Wyrleybart]

230010 is there because there is nowhere else to stable it as Birkenhead has no more room. 777s are being stabled there before things get moving with them

is there a likelihood it will be hauled or trucked to Glasgow for the COP26 do ?

 

[Bob Price]

No, Vivarail are probably using 001 from what I can understand. It's a full battery service with fast recharging.

 

[D365]

No, Vivarail are probably using 001 from what I can understand. It's a full battery service with fast recharging.

Last time I saw 001, it was fitted with the LT DC motors + Ford diesels. Has the unit been reengineered?

 

[Bob Price]

With 002 gone to the USA Vivarail only have 001 left so I guess they must have done work to it. It had authorisation to work on services along with the TfW units so something must have been done. Anyway we are off topic.

 

[1874]

230006 went through Penyffordd today at 17.30 heading towards Wrexham.

 

[Zontar]

230006 went through Penyffordd today at 17.30 heading towards Wrexham.

I saw 230008 earlier on too. Think that was the one on fire.

 

[8H]

I saw 230008 earlier on too. Think that was the one on fire.

Both 6 and 8 mentioned specifically in real time trains as 2T workings today seemed to be a bit of toing and froing to Chester as well as up and down WRX BID

 

[071]

230006 and 230008 were out on training runs today. I was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time to see both within a few minutes of each other at Hawarden.

230006 operated 5T02 BID-WRX which called at HWD, while 230008 was the 5T11 CTR-BID and ran through non-stop.

I have video of both, which I will post once I figure out how to get them onto YouTube.

 

[Zontar]

230006 and 230008 were out on training runs today. I was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time to see both within a few minutes of each other at Hawarden.

230006 operated 5T02 BID-WRX which called at HWD, while 230008 was the 5T11 CTR-BID and ran through non-stop.

I have video of both, which I will post once I figure out how to get them onto YouTube.

Great, please advise when you do.i saw 009 too...so possibly 3 units out today?

 

[071]

I am now a YouTuber.

The channel is a blank canvas at the moment. It was more important to get the clips uploaded than to spend time making the channel look good.

As promised, here are the videos:

230006 arriving at HWD (BID-WRX)

230006 departing HWD (BID-WRX)

230008 running non-stop through HWD (CTR - BID)

 

[Zontar]

I am now a YouTuber.

The channel is a blank canvas at the moment. It was more important to get the clips uploaded than to spend time making the channel look good.

As promised, here are the videos:

230006 arriving at HWD (BID-WRX)

230006 departing HWD (BID-WRX)

230008 running non-stop through HWD (CTR - BID)

Thanks for sharing

 

[Bob Price]

Great to see, if you can keep them coming. I have subscribed.

 

[071]

Thanks Bob!

 

[D821]

I couldn't see any of the 230s at BHN this morning, it seems like they've been there every day for the last few months.

 

[8H]

Looks like 6 car training trips on Wrexham to Bidston today From Real Time Trains

 

[wobman]

Looks like 6 car training trips on Wrexham to Bidston today From Real Time Trains

006 is knackered sitting in Chester yard and 110 is waiting for mods at crewe