Class 222 withdrawal from EMR and future use (non-speculative)

[The_Train]

Did the unit destined for Polmadie ever move in the end?

 

[Class15]

Did the unit destined for Polmadie ever move in the end?

I don’t think so, and while having a look for a move to Polmadie I ended up finding this:

Schedule ID : 9099229

Link to 5R57 Barton Under Needwood to Derby Etches Park

Is it going back to Derby and, if so, why?

 

[Yew]

Unfortunately, some people will always hold onto the notion that a nationalised railway is better than privatisation in every single way and can do absolutely no wrong.

Could you show me someone who has said that exact phrase, or otherwise retract this strawman argument.

They believe that the DfT should automatically have precedence over OA operators

The economic prosperity of a region is clearly more important.

 

[LowLevel]

I don’t think so, and while having a look for a move to Polmadie I ended up finding this:

Schedule ID : 9099229

Link to 5R57 Barton Under Needwood to Derby Etches Park

Is it going back to Derby and, if so, why?

I think that's one of the paths used for 170s going to and from Barton for exam work, though I could be wrong.

 

[Potteries 323]

I don’t think so, and while having a look for a move to Polmadie I ended up finding this:

Schedule ID : 9099229

Link to 5R57 Barton Under Needwood to Derby Etches Park

Is it going back to Derby and, if so, why?

222005 never made it to Polmadie the move was cancelled.Apparently no space at Polmadie.

 

[Highlander1]

I'm pretty sure the units would be available to EMR indefinitely (and probably at no charge) if the DFT could convince the Treasury to threaten to remove Scotland's (unaffordable) privileged subsidy from the rest of the UK if they would not give them up.

Explain "privileged subsidy" please.

 

[Potteries 323]

I haven’t, nor the Mk 2D-F fleet - I was specifically mentioning the stock that was used on dated and extra trains in the period you were referring to.

It was done to prove to you (& others) that privatisation wasn’t responsible for the decline in that type of working with that type of stock. It had been happening for years.

If privitisation wasnt responsible why are there no special trains anymore? Why are services full and standing with no spare coaches? What happened to all the football specials and additional relief trains? Why does everyone order mini 5 coach trains that cannot cope with the crowds? If privitisation is the utopia that you think it is why is the railway such a shambles thesedays? Trackwork full of weeds and indeed young saplings at most stations as if nobody cares anymore.Fares 5 times what they were in BR days even counting for inflation? Cancellations rife and nobody cares.Even the last train of the day is not safe thesedays.
Im just glad that I enjoyed a two week 2nd class all line Railrover in August 1975 under good old British Rail for just £48 or just £3.42 a day for unlimited travel! No restrictions then just jump on any train that you wanted day and night. Not one train cancelled for the whole two weeks just a thoroughly good time had travelling all over the Country from Paddington to Penzance and then all the way to Inverness then Kyle of Lochlash,Kings Cross to Leeds and Glasgow back to Euston and everything in between.All loco hauled with comfortable coaches and a full buffet on all of them!
Just think if I tried doing that today it would cost £949 under the privitised utopia or a massive £67.78 a day with that many restrictions it would be cheaper not to bother at all.Even if you bothered with all the restrictions all the trains would be uncomfortable if they even bothered to run.You cant rely on any of them thesedays.You would be lucky to find a buffet car anymore.
Still those with pink tinted spectacles can convince themselves that they could do better than I did today!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2025 ==

Arriva running EMR is a concerning thought, the residents of Derby, Nottingham and Leicester really would have drawn the short straw having both main TOCs under Arriva!

Could do worse with First Group ,look at the shambles that is Avanti,with LNWR not much better. We at Stoke have to suffer four crap operators Avanti,Cross Country,LNWR and not to forget EMR.
WE were promised an all day Sunday service on the Crewe-Derby service by EMR in 2019 .....We are still waiting 6 years later.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If privitisation wasnt responsible why are there no special trains anymore? Why are services full and standing with no spare coaches? What happened to all the football specials and additional relief trains?

In many cases it’s because these relief trains now run every day - previously there used to be 1tph Manchester to London (it wasn’t even hourly at Stoke to London as some ran via Wilmslow), now it’s 3tph Manchester to London with 2tph at Stoke. All these run with your favoured buffet cars too and all full length trains.

With a 300% uplift in timetables service the capacity largely isn’t there on the network to run Manchester to London football specials.

 

[Potteries 323]

In many cases it’s because these relief trains now run every day - previously there used to be 1tph Manchester to London (it wasn’t even hourly at Stoke to London as some ran via Wilmslow), now it’s 3tph Manchester to London with 2tph at Stoke. All these run with your favoured buffet cars too and all full length trains.

With a 300% uplift in timetables service the capacity largely isn’t there on the network to run Manchester to London football specials.

In 1984 you could buy a London Saver for £12.50 turn up and buy on the day out from Stoke Mon-Fri 01.23,07.02,09.55,12.37,14.57,16.17,17.55 and 19.58 Sat & Sun any Train!
Return Mon-Fri any train at Euston before 14.30 and after 19.00 ,Sat & Sun Any Train.

Beat that today even with two trains an hour at Stoke (Assuming they can be bothered to run them) and assuming you have £300 spare!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

In 1984 you could buy a London Saver for £12.50 turn up and buy on the day out from Stoke Mon-Fri 01.23,07.02,09.55,12.37,14.57,16.17,17.55 and 19.58 Sat & Sun any Train!
Return Mon-Fri any train at Euston before 14.30 and after 19.00 ,Sat & Sun Any Train.

Beat that today even with two trains an hour at Stoke (Assuming they can be bothered to run them) and assuming you have £300 spare!

I’m not sure the relevance of the pricing from 40 years ago? Presumably you expect coffee from the buffet car to still be 15p etc?

Pricing on all long distance transport has changed in that time, started by BR with Apex fares, most long distance journeys whether it be by plane, train or coach are now demand based and fixed to a particular service.

If you still only had that limited selection of trains you’d be able to turn up but unlikely to get on anyway as they would all have been severely overcrowded if you applied today’s passenger numbers.

Yes today’s railway is a lot less interesting but it moves a much higher number of people.

 

[cj_1985]

Explain "privileged subsidy" please.

I'm wondering the same.
Considering that every asset Scotland has had, England has sold off, with little to no benefit staying in Scotland.
Thatcher crippled our steel industry in the 80s/90s... although we're not alone in that. Etc etc

 

[snookertam]

I'm pretty sure the units would be available to EMR indefinitely (and probably at no charge) if the DFT could convince the Treasury to threaten to remove Scotland's (unaffordable) privileged subsidy from the rest of the UK if they would not give them up.

Leaving aside silly comments about privileged subsidy, I don’t think the funding arrangements between the nations of the UK are going to be renegotiated over a fleet of trains.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

I'm wondering the same.
Considering that every asset Scotland has had, England has sold off, with little to no benefit staying in Scotland.
Thatcher crippled our steel industry in the 80s/90s... although we're not alone in that. Etc etc

"England" hasn't done any such thing. We have a UK government and separate bodies with some level of devolved powers for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. There is no English government.

The UK government is mostly only interested in London and its hinterland, and other parts of England are treated with at least as much disregard as the other UK countries - and there is no English parliament and no real devolution, so in many cases those parts of England (much of the North and South-West particularly) are worse off than Scotland as they have no autonomy to change anything.

 

[matt]

Until there is more actual news about the redeployment of the 222 fleet we will bring this thread to a close.