Iskra
Established Member
That answers that then
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Class 221 for Grand Central
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The 175/180 seats have lots of legroom because of the seat back design which the Avanti/Lumo seat shares. Voyager seats as built are very space inefficient - the Pendolino refurb, where you get about an extra 2" of legroom despite the seat layout being exactly the same as before (changing it was too costly as it'd involve new reservation displays).
But that said, I don't think a budget operation, which is what GC is, is incompatible with legroom being a bit tight.
Just a gentle reminder that this thread is for updates regarding what is actually happening (or officially planned to happen); any speculation regarding what might, could or should happen can be posted in Speculative Discussion please.
Many thanks
Many thanks
Iskra
Established Member
I think the primary concern of passengers, is actually getting to the destination, where a 221 will win hands down over a 180.
Well yes but would the average Mr and Mrs Jo Passenger know this?
They will when they’re stuck in a loop with a completely dead train or evacuating because of a ‘thermal incident’.
Passengers rate reliability very highly in their journey choice. It’s not like voyagers are kitted out like 1st gen DMU’s is it. They’re only really bad in the eyes of enthusiasts and enthusiasts friends/family when prompted.
william.martin
On Moderation
I think you might of meant 18 221's?
The_Train
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It's a shame we can't move the 180 interior into a 221 shell on Voyager Cummins engines
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You can make a Voyager quite nice inside, Coach D shows you how.
The_Train
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To be fair, the Avanti Voyagers are ok inside and generally nice to travel on but for me the comfort of a 180 is above all else out there in terms of units at the moment. Just a shame that mechanically they appear to be shambolic
They already have the same engines.
The_Train
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The same everything else that works on a Voyager and doesn't work on a 180 then
The point I am really making is that it's a shame to be losing a unit which is much closer to the comfort we used to get on IC services than anything else on the network at the moment
They are also bad due to lack of seat capacity. And normal passengers almost certainly complain about overcrowding.
But most passengers don't think about that when they're booking do they? They just assume it.
Mikey C
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They'll stop making train bookings with an operator if they keep experiencing unreliability
Trainguy34
Established Member
Just to double check, will the 180s be scrapped after being replaced
Unreliability of the service will make them former passengers.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
I don't think it's been officially said, but I'd expect them to go to scrap (or possibly follow the 175s to their next home)
greatvoyager
Established Member
Not sure if this has been included on this thread yet, but just saw this on Today’s Railways UK twitter
Makes sense to have them on BDI - KGX services. One depot to train and can be based at Crofton.
RailWonderer
Established Member
GC is not a budget operation, their fares are cheaper than LNER but it is certainly not the intention. They have superior seating and arguably a better catering offer than LNER does.
I reckon many would probably argue that one with you. Whilst LNER isn't what it was it's still streets ahead of GC.
RailWonderer
Established Member
First on LNER is definitely superior, but standard?
Not as much difference in standard but I still think the choices are better on LNER. Other opinions may of course vary on that.
swt_passenger
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It’s probably only repeating what GC themselves stated on a LinkedIn discussion, referred to in post #171.
yrreb
Member
That being the retirement home?
Neptune was referring to reliability of the Adelante fleet as opposed to the Voyagers but most people aren't interested in what train type, just whether it works or not.
Duncan-231192
Member
Sounds to me, cutting through the gibbergabber that what GC are really going to do is lease two 221's to provide maintenance relief for their 180 fleet, and then commit to going Bi-mode in return for an extension of their track access agreement.
Then highly speculatively, 221's to XC later on, and probably 222's to scotrail to rid them of HST's to placate the drivers union. I reckon SR will agree to a phase out of HST's to avoid them being blacked leading to massive cancellations.
Then highly speculatively, 221's to XC later on, and probably 222's to scotrail to rid them of HST's to placate the drivers union. I reckon SR will agree to a phase out of HST's to avoid them being blacked leading to massive cancellations.
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Mikey C
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So was I. If an operator with 180s has much poorer reliability than operators using other trains, many people will eventually stop using them, as it's not worth the risk.
Hence the train type matters. Indeed if GC replace all their 180s with 221s, I'm sure they'll publicise this to let potential customers know that they no longer operate the "unreliable trains".
I'm sure that they would be pitched as proven, more reliable trains.
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