Class 180's to.....Northern?

[alex57601]

Virgin arent having any. They have decided against it. Rumour has it is that they are hiring the Stobart Pullman and keeping the 90s on the front.

Oh yes they are.

The lease was signed on them a few weeks ago, and two units will be introduced from December. It is to take over from the 90 + Mk.3s as WB64 is close to having to be withdrawn for overhaul, and will only ever be short-term cover pending delivery of the four new Pendo's.

It must be added that Virgin may well yet decide against 180s if a suitable alternative came up. Only problem with the Stobart Pullman is that it is all First Class seating.

 

[metrocammel]

I dont remember the auto-announcers being in use under TPE.

Nor do I. Im pretty sure they were manual announcements- or at least they were whenever I travelled on a TPE 175. I also remember once, an auto announcement on the North Wales Coast saying 'This is the xx: xx First North Western service to Llandudno' (or similar)- this was at least two years after fNW had finished operating on the Coast!
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It must be added that Virgin may well yet decide against 180s if a suitable alternative came up. Only problem with the Stobart Pullman is that it is all First Class seating.

It's not hard to unscrew the FC seats, and replace it with standard class seating though .

 

[37402]

Only problem with the Stobart Pullman is that it is all First Class seating.

Nowt to stop DRS adding to their fleet. Ideal for normal daytripper charters from then on...

 

[The Planner]

Oh yes they are.

The lease was signed on them a few weeks ago, and two units will be introduced from December. It is to take over from the 90 + Mk.3s as WB64 is close to having to be withdrawn for overhaul, and will only ever be short-term cover pending delivery of the four new Pendo's.

It must be added that Virgin may well yet decide against 180s if a suitable alternative came up. Only problem with the Stobart Pullman is that it is all First Class seating.

Sincerely hope they start bidding for 180 schedules then, as they havent bothered so far.

 

[LilLoaf]

hi ave jus joined and don't know how 2 work this website properly. this is in reply 2 the 180's on the blackpool line

Northern were going 2 bid 4 them but then more 158's became available so northern arn't interested anymore

Virgin wants them 4 Hollyhead and during engineering works diversions
Hull trains using 1 for 222 cover

Grand Central want 2 use em on a Harrogate service

First Capital Connect even want them 4 Cambridge services ( somehow i don't c that happening )

 

[me123]

Having been on the Blackpool line, I can see that it gets busy so the capacity wouldn't go amiss. It isn't as silly as it first sounds to have the 180s up there. However, the alternatives are better IMO. Northern don't desperately need the units.

I still think the 180s would be good for TPE services to Scotland, with a small batch running for Scotrail up to Aberdeen and Inverness, but again I can see the capacity is needed elewhere.

 

[thefab444]

Nowt to stop DRS adding to their fleet. Ideal for normal daytripper charters from then on...

Actually, I'm suprised DRS haven't bought up any 180s so far! :neutral:

 

[alex57601]

Sincerely hope they start bidding for 180 schedules then, as they havent bothered so far.

I heard it will operate the 1G21/1R90/1B05 circuit only, as per the current arrangement with the 90 + Mk.3s - don't hold your breath for any pre-bank holiday relief's to Preston which the 90 occasionally does. And as stated before it is only a short-term measure until the new Pendo's arrive.
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Virgin wants them 4 Hollyhead and during engineering works diversions/QUOTE]

If you read my earlier post, you will find that it is in fact to replace the 90 + Mk.3s on its current duties. 221s to operate the Holyhead's as per current arrangement.

 

[87015]

Oh yes they are.

Fancy starting a book? I'll place a £5 bet 180s dont see service for VWC out of Euston :grin:

 

[The Planner]

I'll raise that fiver to a tenner....

 

[alex57601]

I only bet once a year on the Grand National and that's it, so no!

 

[Philip]

From what I recall all the FNW patterns were available on the 175s for the routes they were permitted over. The system seemed to fall out of use in the later days of the franchise, I dont remember the auto-announcers being in use under TPE.

I did hear the auto announcement was used on all stops TPE Man - Blackpool, these only worked in the evening - though I never heard it myself, just what somrone else said. Obviously with day stopping patters missing stops such as Blackrod and Adlington.

 

[laseandre]

I think it would be a waste of capacity to use the 180s on Northern.

 

[Philip]

I think it would be a waste of capacity to use the 180s on Northern.

Would it? Manchester-Blackpool gets very busy even in off peak times - certainly as far as Preston. The promise of more modern trains with FC could get more people on the train.

 

[alex57601]

Would it? Manchester-Blackpool gets very busy even in off peak times - certainly as far as Preston. The promise of more modern trains with FC could get more people on the train.

Manchester-Blackpool really doesn't need First Class on that route; the journey is less than 2hrs and there are longer services that Northern operate using all-Standard Class trains.

A sub-fleet of a few 185s with no First Class seating would go some way towards the capacity issues on the route, but the route is crying out for 4-car trains at the minimum. It was a pain in the ars€ when a 2-car 175 dropped onto a MIA-BPN turn.

Verdict - 180s ideal for capacity reasons.

 

[rail-britain]

I still think the 180s would be good for TPE services to Scotland, with a small batch running for Scotrail up to Aberdeen and Inverness, but again I can see the capacity is needed elewhere.

I have to agree, that using Class 180s would solve some of the capacity issues between Aberdeen - Glasgow and Aberdeen - Edinburgh
Given there is currently a review of services between Inverness and Perth, retaining Class 170s will make the outcome of that review easier, the intended result will see an hourly service introduced

 

[First ScotRail]

I would personally get rid of the exHT 170's. Transfer them to FTPE and give us some of the 2 cars say 4 or 5? This would mean some INV and ABD services could be 4 cars instead of 3 giving increased capacity as they would work in multiple. This would free up 158's to work with 170s on other services.

 

[me123]

I'd simply refurbish them to remove the now pretty much redundant buffet. Otherwise, brining in two car trains will probably cause a reduction in capacity, even though the objective is to strengthen services.

 

[First ScotRail]

But it would mean some service on the Express route North could be 170 operated which go down better with customers.

 

[me123]

Yes, and it would go down better with me too

 

[alex57601]

I would personally get rid of the exHT 170's. Transfer them to FTPE and give us some of the 2 cars say 4 or 5? This would mean some INV and ABD services could be 4 cars instead of 3 giving increased capacity as they would work in multiple. This would free up 158's to work with 170s on other services.

There was a dud rumour a while back that the ex-Hull Trains 170s were to transfer to TPE for use on the Cleethorpes route due to alleged lower line speeds for 185s operating along some stretches.

That came to nothing.

As a reminder, the reason why TPE acquired 170s in the first place is because some parts of the Hull route the 185s are speed restricted on, whereas the 170s are free to run at full line speed. This problem also affects HT with 222s (and 180s?) but that is made up through 125mph running once the ECML is reached. This also played into TPE's hands better as the 185s would've been stretched anyway so the spare units got used for Scottish routes and strengthening other services.

 

[xc170]

I seriously hope northern dont get any of them the route they plan to use them on could be opperated just as well by 3 car 158s there is no need to waste a 125 dmu on a route that dose not nead it, and northern i agree they are certainly a better company than ATN & FNW but if they did get a 180 then they wont be refurbished in a hurry and will end up in the same state as some of there 158/144.

Sorry, rant over

Adam

 

[P156KWJ]

if it was up to me, I'd give the 180s to East Midlands Trains to provide 5 car trains on the liverpool-norwich route, then cascade previously used 158s to Northern to strengten these services.
On the note of exHT 170s, I would consider giving them to Northern too, for their new Leeds - Nottingham service, which would mean less pressure on northern for 158s, and NXEA who had the exHT 170s could benifit from some other 180s

 

[xc170]

Ide like to see all the 180's go to XC as in december when all the HST's are delivered virgin are taking about 5 more voyagers of XC

 

[me123]

if it was up to me, I'd give the 180s to East Midlands Trains to provide 5 car trains on the liverpool-norwich route, then cascade previously used 158s to Northern to strengten these services.

That's one of the most sensible suggestions IMO. I've never been on Liverpool-Norwich, but I've heard quite a lot about overcrowding to say the least. I think they should get at least some 180s which would allow them to double up 158s on other services. Of course, I'm pretty sure this won't happen

 

[P156KWJ]

That's one of the most sensible suggestions IMO. I've never been on Liverpool-Norwich, but I've heard quite a lot about overcrowding to say the least. I think they should get at least some 180s which would allow them to double up 158s on other services. Of course, I'm pretty sure this won't happen

99% chance it won't

can't work out how they manage to double up or even triple up 156s on skeggy summer trains, why not use 156s (when they are available) or even 153s with 158s on them? At least it's not as bad as when it was Central Trains, if they didn't have a 158 or 170 available, they'd cancel it, because others don't have aircon :???:

 

[First ScotRail]

I dont agree with them going to northern. There are many more TOCs which need them and would put them to better use.

 

[class 313]

I dont agree with them going to northern. There are many more TOCs which need them and would put them to better use.

That's what he said.

But because of this he is saying they should get 180s to increase capacity.
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if it was up to me, I'd give the 180s to East Midlands Trains to provide 5 car trains on the liverpool-norwich route, then cascade previously used 158s to Northern to strengten these services.

EMT have already said they might clear 222s for the route.

 

[Galvanize]

EMT have already said they might clear 222s for the route.

In an interview with EMT's boss Tim shoveller in August's edition of RI mag, he mentions that they will clear the route for 222s purely for cover! But that it would be highly impractical due to high track access costs incurred by using them!

 

[class 313]

I can see the Pioneers being used on the route if EMT get them. By customer demand if anything.