Class 180's to.....Northern?

[90019]

Secondly, WHY do so many people find it hard to differentiate mk2s & 3s. There's a hell of a lot of difference aesthetically. For a start, mk2s have a smooth roof, mk3 are ridged, mk2s have lots of ancillary equipment visible underneath, whereas mk3s are neater, with a metal paneled skirt from bogey to bogey.

Also, at 75ft, mk3s are about 10ft longer than mk2s

And mk2 doors are smoother, whereas mk3s have a sort of indent around the window:
Mk2
Mk3

 

[Pumbaa]

Is there no way of upgrading them to the Standard of a Mk3, But i do belive froma source that most of those coaches at Crewe have been ear marked for an opern access operator.

I think though that the paths for extra trains should go to an open access operator to provide extra services rather than Nat Ex having the monopoly.

Really? Care to name the operator? The idea of a franchise is that you are a statutory monopoly. If paths are given away to OAO, they won't be too happy. They in effect pay for the paths.

 

[ffcphone]

From Northern Railways:

Diagram 2
06:53 Blackpool North to Hazel Grove
09:33 Hazel Grove - Preston
ECS to Blackpool
ECS to Preston
14:23 Preston to Hazel Grove
16:33 Hazel Grove to Preston

First post - not a particularly good one I grant you!

On the assumption JsT's post some little while ago re Diagram 2 is correct, as a daily commuter between Bolton and Preston, I normally get to see the 06:53 Blackpool North to Hazel Grove service coming through Bolton just before 8am each morning whilst I await the 07:59 TPE to Edinburgh going the other way.

Whilst I have not been keeping count, I reckon 180s haven't run the service on about 30% of the time so far. And despite the faster acceleration possible, I'm surprised when the 180 does run the service, I reckon it's 50/50 as to whether it reaches Bolton on time as I can see across to the opposite platform display board and note the "EXPD 0000" flashing away when it's late.

F

 

[bluenoxid]

First post - not a particularly good one I grant you!

On the assumption JsT's post some little while ago re Diagram 2 is correct, as a daily commuter between Bolton and Preston, I normally get to see the 06:53 Blackpool North to Hazel Grove service coming through Bolton just before 8am each morning whilst I await the 07:59 TPE to Edinburgh going the other way.

Whilst I have not been keeping count, I reckon 180s haven't run the service on about 30% of the time so far. And despite the faster acceleration possible, I'm surprised when the 180 does run the service, I reckon it's 50/50 as to whether it reaches Bolton on time as I can see across to the opposite platform display board and note the "EXPD 0000" flashing away when it's late.

F

It is right. The 180s have had some atrocious availability due to a number of factors.

The performance on the service I cannot comment on as I am not familiar with the area but I believe it takes longer to set down at stations.

 

[ffcphone]

It is right. The 180s have had some atrocious availability due to a number of factors.

The performance on the service I cannot comment on as I am not familiar with the area but I believe it takes longer to set down at stations.

As you may read elsewhere, I am no expert on trains compared to the posts some of you guys make. However, I did read of the "issue" of times at stations so I have been paying particular attention to the time taken for the 180 doors to close and for a 180 to depart Bolton station compared to when the "platform dispatcher" blows his/her whistle to confirm to begin closing the doors.

I've not noticed an unduly lengthy time to be honest, comparable to the 185s I travel on daily if I was pushed to comment further.

Intriguingly, there's an illuminated display externally mounted on the 180s (I'm not sure how many) but certain at the first set of doors in the driving cab and perhaps similar at the rear but I've never really checked. The Northen 180s I see are all displaying "welcome aboard" on arrival at Bolton. Perhaps a permanent display. Not a particular long display either so hard to imagine what could be put on there without some form of fast scrolling.

Out of curiousity, what "factors" have lead to availability problems. I've read of numerous posts mentioning problems but nowhere have I read what these are. Are they mechanical in nature (engines braking down), are they a common fault, etc. Just interested to know why FGW got rid of the fleet relatively quickly.

F

 

[Chilled Phill]

Saw this the other day at Manchester Oxford Road heading towards Liverpool Lime Street. Curious, as the 180s weren't planned for use along that route, were they?

 

[1D53]

i very much doubt it went to Liverpool to be honest! Blackpool work most of the 180's and they don't sign Manchester to Liverpool.

 

[Mintona]

Saw this the other day at Manchester Oxford Road heading towards Liverpool Lime Street. Curious, as the 180s weren't planned for use along that route, were they?

Hazel Grove - Preston

 

[ukrob]

How do you know it was heading towards Liverpool unless it said Liverpool on platform or train displays?

 

[Chilled Phill]

How do you know it was heading towards Liverpool unless it said Liverpool on platform or train displays?

It said on the Oxford Road departure board for Platform 2, "<Time>, Liverpool Lime Street".

Seriously? Hazel Grove - Preston, Mintona? Btw, it's not an ECS movement because there were passengers onboard the train at the time.

 

[bluenoxid]

I really want to take the mick.

 

[driver9000]

Chilled pill - yes seriously the 180 is booked to run on Hazel Grove-Preston services at certain times of the day. The other 180 diagram is an all day Blackpool N-Manchester Victoria service with the third being maintenance spare at Newton Heath.

With you seeing one at Oxford Rd it would have been on the Hazel Gr-Preston service and the departure screen was showing the wrong service. 180s have not been to Liverpool.

 

[John_158]

Have Northern Had many problems with Adi / 180108 and his two Sisters ?

Also what kind of problems do theese units suffer from ?

 

[Chilled Phill]

Chilled pill - yes seriously the 180 is booked to run on Hazel Grove-Preston services at certain times of the day. The other 180 diagram is an all day Blackpool N-Manchester Victoria service with the third being maintenance spare at Newton Heath.

With you seeing one at Oxford Rd it would have been on the Hazel Gr-Preston service and the departure screen was showing the wrong service. 180s have not been to Liverpool.

Ah right. My apologies.

I wasn't aware Northern 180s ran between Preston and Hazel Grove via Piccadilly as a Non-ECS movement.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Have Northern Had many problems with Adi / 180108 and his two Sisters ?

Also what kind of problems do theese units suffer from ?

One of the main problems experienced by FGW with the 180's was with the doors locking closing and locking too quickly, as far as NR is concerned no major problems so far, although they have only been in service for a a short period so.....

 

[ffcphone]

One of the main problems experienced by FGW with the 180's was with the doors locking closing and locking too quickly, as far as NR is concerned no major problems so far, although they have only been in service for a a short period so.....

I've read this myself somewhere but don't quite understand the issue still. If anyone can expand it would be much appreciated.

The Blackpool N to Hazel Grove service departing Bolton around 7:50am this morning was run with a 180, as it is booked to be. However, as I have reported elsewhere, as I normally see this service on an adjacent platform to me every morning, even this early in Northern Rail's use of 180s it hasn't always been the case a 180 has run this service.

Incidentally, just as 185s have an eco mode whereby the train control systems can selectively choose which engines need to be in use at any time, can 180s do something similar? The reason I ask is that this morning as the above departed for Hazel Grove all 5 were in use and surely 3 or even 4 would suffice for the journey between Bolton and Salford Crescent?

F

 

[John_158]

Incidentally, just as 185s have an eco mode whereby the train control systems can selectively choose which engines need to be in use at any time, can 180s do something similar? The reason I ask is that this morning as the above departed for Hazel Grove all 5 were in use and surely 3 or even 4 would suffice for the journey between Bolton and Salford Crescent?

Prehaps some of the engines where jsut idle or it uses all engines to pulll away then affter a certan ammount of power some engines run idle.

 

[ffcphone]

It would certainly make sense for all 5 engines to provide the necessary acceleration (as was the case this morning) to get a 180 up to "cruising speed" and then for a train control system to selectively idle or even switch off certain engines as deemed unnecessary.

Having said that, from my own 185 experiences, there have been times when the carriage I have been travelling in has been completely unpowered even when the train is accelerating from rest.

Given the maximum possible running speed of the 180 and the line speed restrictions on the Blackpool - Hazel Grove route, I just thought using all 5 was wasteful given the clever goings on I have only recently learnt on the 185, albeit the 180 is a few years older and perhaps "eco mode" and such like was less of an issue back then.

F

 

[bluenoxid]

As far as I am aware, they don't have Eco Mode on the 180's.

 

[John_158]

Hmm, Can't really see them not having it* as it could be that using all five engines is the only way to keep up the reliability of them and that the eco mode is not very good on them and has been isolated.

There about as old as the Merdians and Voyagers i think so no reson why they wouldn't have it.

 

[driver9000]

No 'eco mode' is fitted to the 180. All 5 engines power the train under normal circumstances.

 

[ffcphone]

180103 just arrived and departed in front of me at Bolton station on its was to Hazel Grove. Engine under coach A not in use.

 

[222001]

180103 just arrived and departed in front of me at Bolton station on its was to Hazel Grove. Engine under coach A not in use.

Probably broken. How many engines can a 180 survive on before it is declared failed?

 

[Chilled Phill]

Presuming there is an engine under each carriage (5) then I reckon if three go out then it's declared a failure. Although I'm sure I'll get corrected by the more informed members of the forum...

 

[Pumbaa]

Umm - I seem to remember reading that the required power and tractive effort to maintain a decent speed, and full distribution of aux power etc requires 3 engines, unlike SuperVoyagers which can, IIRC, survive on 2. Bizarrely, the same engines, but it's obviously down to the stupid things that Alsthom have done to the setup.

 

[ffcphone]

180106 running the early Hazel Grove service this morning. All 5 engines in operation. Don't worry. I won't provide a daily log from this point. But if I see anything noteworthy, I'll post it up.

 

[ffcphone]

180106 arrived and departed Bolton on 4 engines just now.

 

[driver9000]

a 180 has run all day on 2 engines before now, with no ill effect to the running times - the service is timed for Sprinter/Pacer anyway.

 

[ffcphone]

180106 still not running with coach A engine this morning. Also the squealing from the brakes when the train comes to rest is the loudest i've ever heard. Really is bad. And 103 no better either. In addition what i assume is a turbocharger whistle on full acceleration also very evident and more so than other trains i've seen or heard.

 

[1D53]

All Alstom units are well known for squealing brakes.