Apedlar12
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Yes, these have been running for months now and have been 175s on crew training I believe, but I suspect now they are being used as the mileage runs instead.
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Class 175s to GWR
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D6130
Established Member
Could they not be used for both at the same time? Killing two birds with one stone, so to speak.
175003 currently working up from Laira to Exeter SD as 3E05 to start its mileage accumulation diagram of around 600 miles & about to pass my apartment at Dawlish Warren
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175003 now working 2C05 Exeter SD to Penzance
Observed it arriving at Dawlish Warren
Originally planned to Paignton but working I believe was cancelled
Still it’s my first sighting of one down here
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175003 now working 2C05 Exeter SD to Penzance
Observed it arriving at Dawlish Warren
Originally planned to Paignton but working I believe was cancelled
Still it’s my first sighting of one down here
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REVUpminster
Established Member
Often two units go up to Exeter; one for 2C05 and the other 5Z21 and training/mileage accumulation.
Oh ok.
It was dark when it passed so couldn’t see clearly
REVUpminster
Established Member
It looks like 112+113 came out of Laira together and 113 has gone passenger as 2E04, 112 as training/mileage on 5Z13 and 003 is doing 2C05
113-112 just passed the Saltash camera. Maybe 113 is not doing 2E04.
These two trains seem to have done Laira-Plymouth- Newton Abbot-Plymouth-Penzance-Plymouth.
2E04 showing cancelled on GWR notices.
113-112 just passed the Saltash camera. Maybe 113 is not doing 2E04.
These two trains seem to have done Laira-Plymouth- Newton Abbot-Plymouth-Penzance-Plymouth.
2E04 showing cancelled on GWR notices.
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It was said more in hope than expectation
REVUpminster
Established Member
003 arrived platform 7 Plymouth on time as 2E11 changed to 5E11 and seems to have shunted to the dk platform. 5Z13, 113+112 arrive in platform 7 25 early
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It could be 003 is picking up the diagram as 2C32 at 1649 as it's still in the dk platform. Probably no crew so not a train problem.
Another site I use says the 24 September 2026 is earmarked as the next delivery from Wolverton.
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It could be 003 is picking up the diagram as 2C32 at 1649 as it's still in the dk platform. Probably no crew so not a train problem.
Another site I use says the 24 September 2026 is earmarked as the next delivery from Wolverton.
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Express380
Member
No crew quoted on Journey Check
REVUpminster
Established Member
003 has shunted out of dk into platform 4 and taken up 2C32
The reliability figures are dire - period 4 Mp701D (miles per technical incident causing a delay of 3 or more minutes) was just 1006, period 5 fell to 999.
In comparison, class 185s were 11960 in period 5....
The 2025-26 Mp701D average for Era 2 DMU was 8680.
In comparison, class 185s were 11960 in period 5....
The 2025-26 Mp701D average for Era 2 DMU was 8680.
The TfW rebrand from ATW to TfW happened well before the CAF era. Total nonsense that the CAF staff didn`t realise the importance of the cleaning regimes as we were the same staff that maintained them for over 20 years. I have conceded previously that things may have slipped slightly post Alstom, the cleaning regime was not the sole factor.
I don`t think that you can put the blame at the TfW door as TfW were not the 175 maintenance provider Alstom and laterally CAF were.
Admittedly ATW and TfW bore the ultimate responsibility for their fleet.
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REVUpminster
Established Member
003 arrived Exeter on time to make the connection with the Bristol train so top marks.
112+113 have had a successful run out and arrived in Plymouth early. It was then supposed to shunt to dk 3, maybe to see a 6 car train in there. It hasn't so looks like it will go straight to Laira; been in platform 6 over 70 minutes.
112+113 have had a successful run out and arrived in Plymouth early. It was then supposed to shunt to dk 3, maybe to see a 6 car train in there. It hasn't so looks like it will go straight to Laira; been in platform 6 over 70 minutes.
43096
On Moderation
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Just because something is contracted out doesn't give the contracting body a free pass. Need to be an "intelligent customer" and it is highly debatable if TfW are/were - see also the 230s.
REVUpminster
Established Member
003+011 empty to Exeter, 011 to Paignton training, 003 takes up 2C05 which it did yesterday.
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2125hrs 003 still on diagram. 011 still running round. Also 112+113 been out and about. I suppose the mileage is allocated to both.
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2125hrs 003 still on diagram. 011 still running round. Also 112+113 been out and about. I suppose the mileage is allocated to both.
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I did point out that whoever is/was the operator that the buck stops at their door for the safety of their fleet.
Angel accompanied by TfW regularly carried out audits of the whole 175 maintenance operation at Chester including fleet checks, competencies of staff, observations of staff carrying out maintenance activities to the correct spec and procedures along with all associated paperwork, as you would expect.
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REVUpminster
Established Member
112+113 arrived Plymouth and again did not do the shunt dk3 and has gone to Laira; good runs today.
011 arrived Plymouth 30 late and went into dk3. it has reversed quite quickly for it's next run to Exeter 34 late.
011 is supposed to couple up with 003 which has arrived on time at Exeter and both return to Laira as 5P28.
The driver of 011 is really motoring through Dawlish and if the signaller had been a bit cuter could have let it through Dawlish Warren instead of letting it follow a stopping train there, Star Cross, and St Thomas.
011 arrived Plymouth 30 late and went into dk3. it has reversed quite quickly for it's next run to Exeter 34 late.
011 is supposed to couple up with 003 which has arrived on time at Exeter and both return to Laira as 5P28.
The driver of 011 is really motoring through Dawlish and if the signaller had been a bit cuter could have let it through Dawlish Warren instead of letting it follow a stopping train there, Star Cross, and St Thomas.
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185s wouldn't fit on Looe or Gunnislake branches as I understand it.
The 150s will probably need replacing by a new build train
REVUpminster
Established Member
It's too tempting to cascade trains that have another 10 years at minimal cost. New build will go to London and the North first
When has there been a new build local train in the Southwest. Don't think it was 142s.143s, 150s; maybe 108s
Roylang
Member
142s were new build to the south-west and proved a disaster. Skipper livery then ended up transferring up north.
Roy
But there's still the issue that it needs to fit!
24m carriages in multiple don't work on those two branches. I suspect a 3 carriage 755 might, or a 230, but otherwise you're limited to 150s or a single 153
It would be interesting to contrast the cost of enhancing the infrastructure to take longer trains with the lifetime additional costs of a micro-fleet of shorter trains. Add in the potential for passesger growth, encouraging tourism, and relieving the strain on the congested local roadwork, and perhaps it's something Cornwall County Council should get behind?
I doubt the DfT arm of the treasury (let’s be honest) would want to do that.
In much the same way as carting around tons of batteries or GUs on orherwise electric trains, more short trains are opex rather than capex and keep debt off the treasury’s balance sheet, PPI style.
REVUpminster
Established Member
175s hopefully will be doing Falmouth-Newquay, Okehampton, Barnstaple, and Exeter-Penzance next year. This would free up 150s and the 158s could go to Bristol. If they get them all going that's 26 trains for about 18 diagrams. More if you include the Cornwall branches
The 150s could keep the Paignton- Exmouth, 7 diagrams, going for the next 4/5 years freeing up the turbos to Bristol.
The 175 was all about increasing capacity in the Southwest (not services except Newquay) and Bristol area.
Just watched a video on the £1 billion 29 new trains for Transpennine that will replace the 185s in 2034!!
They will retain some 185s for wholly diesel routes but the surplus will have there fate decided in the next year as they don't want them stored in a field. Paignton-Exmouth springs to mind.
Maybe the King in the North will spend a billion pounds in the Southwest to replace the diesel fleets?
The 150s could keep the Paignton- Exmouth, 7 diagrams, going for the next 4/5 years freeing up the turbos to Bristol.
The 175 was all about increasing capacity in the Southwest (not services except Newquay) and Bristol area.
Just watched a video on the £1 billion 29 new trains for Transpennine that will replace the 185s in 2034!!
They will retain some 185s for wholly diesel routes but the surplus will have there fate decided in the next year as they don't want them stored in a field. Paignton-Exmouth springs to mind.
Maybe the King in the North will spend a billion pounds in the Southwest to replace the diesel fleets?
RPI
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Looe is the trickiest as the platform at Looe isn't much longer than a 2 car 150 and a platform extension there would be incredibly costly, probably involving extending beyond the buffer stop into the adjacent car park. Before sprinters, the summer service was usually a 3 car 117/101 with the third carriage completely off the platform.
Obviously SDO would overcome this, but then you're into extended turnaround times, which will effect the rather tightly timed turnarounds in order to maintain a (near) hourly service!
185's on the Devon and Cornwall branch lines is for the fairies.
I noticed that Rail are reporting that GWR are likely to get some of the TfW 158's, which I've also heard on the grapevine, but these are in addition to the 175's to release more IET's.
Back to the actual subject, did 003 manage it's whole diagram yesterday? Hearing rumblings that a big part of the issues are partly down to poor record keeping during their previous maintenance regime on top of everything else.
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I don't believe 175's will be routinely operating to Falmouth, there could be scope, with the acquisition of some TfW 158's, to actually create a few three car 150's to boost capacity on St Ives and other Cornish branches.
I think we can safely rule out 185's on Exmouth - Paignton and there also needs to be at least 2/3 Turbo diagrams in order to keep traction knowledge.
REVUpminster
Established Member
003 from what I saw when on line did the complete diagram to time and for two days running made the connection at Exeter. I did watch it 003+011 returning to Plymouth via Dawlish cams. 175s as far as I know had a good day yesterday. Hiccup on Monday with crew shortage.
Not looked today.
If Exeter gets more 158s, where will they be used and what formations; 2+2, 3+2?
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Can only see 113 out today on mileage runs.
Not looked today.
If Exeter gets more 158s, where will they be used and what formations; 2+2, 3+2?
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Can only see 113 out today on mileage runs.
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RPI
Established Member
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I believe the 158's will be more for Exeter/Taunton to Cardiff freeing 80X's
Snow1964
Established Member
Could 158s keep time, they are limited to 90mph, and their acceleration rate is pretty gutless over about 80mph
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
With them being 150s until about 2019, was the timetabling ever tightened for this service? I know London HSS was, but I’m not sure about Regional services. Especially as Castle/IET routes were often shared with 158/16x, such as Worcester/Gloucester Bristol which still is today.
RPI
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I'm not sure it ever was tightened to be fair, like you say, it was mostly 150's previously.