Class 172 Production Progress

[trains2064]

Have just seen 172 332 come through my local station today around 4 ish. I have to say they look and sound the part. I know some say they are noisy but I don't think so.

 

[starrymarkb]

IIRC it's a 20min job to connect the units

This is how it should be done

[youtube]ESbdlRiSaC8[/youtube]

 

[Peter Sarf]

IIRC it's a 20min job to connect the units

This is how it should be done

[youtube]ESbdlRiSaC8[/youtube]

Not quite !. I gathered 30 mins !. Your right though - a pointlessly long time. Obviously no-one involved at the design/ordering stage knew anything about how the Southern region operated.

I cannot help feeling that GEC/Alsthom let the Germans into the UK rail market when they let go of the huge orders for replacing slam door stock. Closely followed, after that, by the rest of the world no doubt. Its up to Bombardier to keep work in the UK as I wonder if GEC/Almost will ever be selected in preference to Siemens in the future even if they did build something here again. They have a shrinking foothold in the UK market and Hitachi are queuing to overtake them.

 

[matt]

172332 made it to Stratford Upon Avon today http://www.petertandy.co.uk/Recentpics.html

 

[fgwrich]

Nothing to do with Bombardier. Connex (South Central and South Eastern) insisted on having a different connector to the rest of Bonbardiers products for the 375s and 377s. When Southern took over and ordered the 170s they had to be different to the other 170s by having a connector that worked with the 375 and 377s so they were re-classified as 1771s.

There is nothing like standards but sadly, in many cases, there is nothing like standards .

Not helped by the fact there seems to be two or more different Dellner Coupling heights - As found out by the tests carried out in selhurst around 2009?(Correct me if im wrong!) Involving the possible use of a spare VT 57/3 as a potential Southern Thunderbird loco...to which the idea was scupperd when the 57s Dellner Coupling was found to be something like 2 Inches higher than Southerns 377s! :roll:

Modern Rolling Stock Coupling Standards - Yes Please!

 

[cj_1985]

i seem to recall that there are European standards for new build intercity stock... hence why the pendolino units, DB ICE units and Eurostar 373s, have the scharfenberg coupler... the 22x fleet most likely have a compatible coupler since they (the 220 and 221) were designed at the same time as the class 390s for the same customer with the possibility of them being able to rescue one another being planned (or required by Virgin)

 

[TomJ93]

390s use Dellners not Scharfenberg's

 

[Old Hill Bank]

172332 made it to Stratford Upon Avon today http://www.petertandy.co.uk/Recentpics.html

Thanks Matt

 

[swt_passenger]

390s use Dellners not Scharfenberg's

It is not necessarily as clear cut as that. 'Dellner' and 'Voith Turbo Scharfenberg' (and other firms) both manufacture 'Scharfenberg pattern' mainline couplers. Herr Scharfenberg first designed his coupler and then licensed it, and it became a European standard.

I checked the two company's websites a while back and they are mechanically compatible - it's the electrical and pneumatic connections that cause the problems.

According to RSSB's info sheet M007 the Dellner 12 as used in Pendolino, Voyagers, Desiros is a 'Scharfenberg pattern' coupler.

So it's fair to say that when referring to couplers you need more than just the manufacturer's name - for instance the big lump on a 458 is completely different, but is also still a 'Scharfenberg' AAR...

Some detailed info here:

http://www.rssb.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/rv_coupling_system_data/mechanical/M007.pdf

 

[Kingfisher200262]

It is not necessarily as clear cut as that. 'Dellner' and 'Voith Turbo Scharfenberg' (and other firms) both manufacture 'Scharfenberg pattern' mainline couplers. Herr Scharfenberg first designed his coupler and then licensed it, and it became a European standard.

I checked the two company's websites a while back and they are mechanically compatible - it's the electrical and pneumatic connections that cause the problems.

According to RSSB's info sheet M007 the Dellner 12 as used in Pendolino, Voyagers, Desiros is a 'Scharfenberg pattern' coupler.

So it's fair to say that when referring to couplers you need more than just the manufacturer's name - for instance the big lump on a 458 is completely different, but is also still a 'Scharfenberg' AAR...

Some detailed info here:

http://www.rssb.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/rv_coupling_system_data/mechanical/M007.pdf

We're straying way off topic, but the Class 57/3 "Thunderbirds" are fitted with retractable Scharfenberg couplers in order that they can rescue Pendolinos, which are fitted with Dellner 12 couplers. This confirms that the two are definitely compatible mechanically, as others have said already.

 

[trains2064]

172332 has made it to Leamington Spa today.

 

[dooton]

172332 has made it to Leamington Spa today.

Good Stuff - does anybody have an idea of when they will reach the Stourbridge end. Surely they will get a few trips up there soon?

 

[trains2064]

I believe they may have already been to atleast Stourbridge. I will try to confirm.

 

[sutty]

Just leaving Tyseley, seen the 172's getting a good wash-down.

The guys washing them even got a few hoots from a passing Wrexham Shropshire, 67 driver. How kind

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Another looked finished outside the works when I passed on Friday.
It was suggested today was the day for 172 333 to arrive, maybe it'l have seats!!!

On a positive note there is new "car stop" signs appearing along the Snow Hill route including some SDO's where appropriate.

 

[SSL1990]

I spoke to someone from London Midland today, he said the plan was for the Class 172's to enter service "around the time the new timetables come into place"

 

[Old Hill Bank]

I spoke to someone from London Midland today, he said the plan was for the Class 172's to enter service "around the time the new timetables come into place"

You should have pressed the individual on the question of May 2011 or Dec 2011.

 

[bnsf734]

Or May 2012

Will any units have seats by May 2011?

 

[oversteer]

Chiltern are maintaining that the 172s will come into service from the May 2011 timetable (ref Twitter)

I know 172101 is out and about - but have the remaining three units been built yet? Seems to be running a bit close, if not

 

[anthony263]

Chiltern are maintaining that the 172s will come into service from the May 2011 timetable (ref Twitter)

I know 172101 is out and about - but have the remaining three units been built yet? Seems to be running a bit close, if not

I think the bodies of the other chiltern units were completed , not sure if they have been put onto the boggies yet. Another problems is the lack of seats which is also affecting the London Midland units

 

[northwichcat]

I spoke to someone from London Midland today, he said the plan was for the Class 172's to enter service "around the time the new timetables come into place"

When I was on a TPE 158 soon after First took over the franchise and someone asked the conductor when the new trains would be coming, he laughed and said something like "I'll believe they're coming when I actually see them in person."
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

the lack of seats

No problem - less seats means more standing capacity.

 

[jon0844]

And if there are no hand/grab rails inside, I hope the driver doesn't brake too sharpish.

 

[northwichcat]

And if there are no hand/grab rails inside, I hope the driver doesn't brake too sharpish.

It'll be just like standing on a Pacer - completly unsafe!

 

[Yew]

It'll be just like standing on a Pacer - completly unsafe!

It will be nothing like standing on a pacer. A pacer would be much worse, Bouncy and uncrashworthy. Of course, when the government has the choice of replacing stock on an out of london line, that has been reccomended for replacement as soon as possible, and building and stocking a High speed route to london, Guess which they choose.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Pretty sure I saw 172101 at Reading Depot this afternoon.

Was shooting past so didn't get a chance to see properly but it was definatly a 2-car Turbostar in Chiltern colours so I am assuming this was it.

 

[RPM]

It has apparently gone to Reading for coupling compatibility tests with a 166, not that they are likely to work together in the forseeable future, but you never know.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

It has apparently gone to Reading for coupling compatibility tests with a 166, not that they are likely to work together in the forseeable future, but you never know.

But they will work together with Chiltern's 165s, which are the same as 166s. It may be that Chiltern couldn't find the space and / or a spare 166 to do the tests, whereas FGW at Reading might have been able to accommodate this.

Could this be a rare example of very welcome cooperation between TOCs??

 

[starrymarkb]

FGW seem to have a good relationship with their neighbouring TOCs.

There was a case a few years ago where the line between Westbury and Salisbury was blocked with a GW Portsmouth 158 and SWT London 159 stuck in Westbury - so they decided to join the trains at Westbury, head for Yeovil Junction and then on to Salisbury via Templecombe

 

[The Planner]

Or May 2012

No May timetable in 2012, it is a whole year to incoporate the Olympics.

 

[coxy]

It has apparently gone to Reading for coupling compatibility tests with a 166, not that they are likely to work together in the forseeable future, but you never know.

Hi,

Just by chance I saw a Chiltern Rail 172 speed past my office window on Friday afternoon - not the kind of thing I'd have expected since it's just to the west of Maidenhead on the main lines out of Paddington !

So putting 2 and 2 together this would have been 172101 heading west through Maidenhead shortly after 15:15. Seemed to be going fairly fast compared to the normal 165/166 units.