Class 172 Production Progress

[dooton]

Aha the guy said he apparently asked the driver who told him they would be running monday? - Makes sense though to put them on the Hereford to Brum first as its easier to cross train the drivers from the 170's. I'm at University Birmingham all day monday anyway so i'll watch out in case Bombardier has sneakily delivered one!

But in all fairness I think its just something some guy has dreamt.

P.s ask london Midlands twitter if you really want to know - the person that runs it is really good!

 

[MCR247]

They won't have one by Monday, as they aren't even being tested(?) and they won't run New St - Herefords as they are for Snow Hill lines to replace 150s

 

[lm321412]

Sounds rubbish to me. They have only just about got the Overground 172s finished, so its going to take time to get a few 172s built, tested, trained on etc.

I would imagine that they will occasionally fill on Birmingham - Hereford, Birmingham - Shrewsbury and Birmingham - Rugeley Trent Valley but it will be quite rare I expect.

 

[The Planner]

Mileage accumulation will take place down to Stratford and back when they eventually get them.

 

[222001]

I wouldn't have thought it would be too long before the first one is out for testing.

From that FGW forum

"Worcester drivers have told me that they are the first to be trained on the new London Midland units which will replace all the class 150 and all or most of the class 153 units."

The bit about the 153s is completely wrong as they are keeping all of them!

 

[starrymarkb]

If wikipedia is wrong and you know it, either update it or delete the wrong information. That's how it works. It is easy...

I've just nuked it! (with a note saying to provide a source)

 

[MCR247]

They are keeping some 150s and 153s (well they want to keep 153s)

 

[devon_metro]

I wouldn't have thought it would be too long before the first one is out for testing.

From that FGW forum

"Worcester drivers have told me that they are the first to be trained on the new London Midland units which will replace all the class 150 and all or most of the class 153 units."

The bit about the 153s is completely wrong as they are keeping all of them!

won't be seeing any 172/2s till next year

 

[313103]

Hopefully the heating in the rear cabs is sorted out on the Chiltern & London Midland fleets as the LOROL specified ones are colder then it is outside at times. I was working one last week and the maximum temp was a nice 12' C. The cynic in me tells me that LOROL only want their Conductors to work in the passenger saloon, which i dont have a problem with, but how does one do that when there is not enough room for the passengers let alone the staff?

Of course our drivers are also not happy because the heaters only work in the leading cab when the driver inserts the master key.

Perhaps one of the staff can tell who works for either chiltern or LM if indeed heating is supplied in rear cabs

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Travelled on an LM 150 the other Sunday, it had no heating for the passengers but the conductor kept himself warm collecting fares, I presume for a cut of the profits, I assume the cab heater worked ok front and back !!!!!!

 

[313103]

Travelled on an LM 150 the other Sunday, it had no heating for the passengers but the conductor kept himself warm collecting fares, I presume for a cut of the profits, I assume the cab heater worked ok front and back !!!!!!

Well at least he came through and did what he is supposed to do (well at least that what some say on here) rather then just sit in the back cab and do nothing, at least he came into the cold train area.

Companies do not give specific instructions on train heating in the passenger area, however they do in cabs of trains. The reason being why they have them in the cabs is because a driver would not be able to concentrate on the job he/she has to do and that is which is safely. You wouldn't expect a driver of any vehicle (unless of course its your own and you like it freezing cold) to drive whilst being concerned about how cold it is and carrying large numbers of people.

Whilst i sympathise about the train heating, the train crew are often left with the decision to run the train without heating, or failing the train which means it will be taken out of service and the chances (esp. on a Sunday) of a replacement with heating being brought into service is highly unlikely.

So what would you have rather had:
1. A train with No heating?
2. No Train?

With regard to a 'Cut in the profits'. Please enlighten me as to what you are insinuating here?

 

[TEW]

Hopefully the heating in the rear cabs is sorted out on the Chiltern & London Midland fleets as the LOROL specified ones are colder then it is outside at times. I was working one last week and the maximum temp was a nice 12' C. The cynic in me tells me that LOROL only want their Conductors to work in the passenger saloon, which i dont have a problem with, but how does one do that when there is not enough room for the passengers let alone the staff?

Of course our drivers are also not happy because the heaters only work in the leading cab when the driver inserts the master key.

Perhaps one of the staff can tell who works for either chiltern or LM if indeed heating is supplied in rear cabs

FGW recently installed cab air conditioning to their sprinter fleet and that only works in the front cab.

 

[starrymarkb]

With regard to a 'Cut in the profits'. Please enlighten me as to what you are insinuating here?

I read it as referring to commission

 

[Arriva158]

According to gen, 150001 + 150002 will be the first two units to leave London Midland when the 172's arrive!
Repaint them into ATW and shove them on the Holyhead - Birmingham runs and pair them with a 158

 

[WillPS]

According to gen, 150001 + 150002 will be the first two units to leave London Midland when the 172's arrive!
Repaint them into ATW and shove them on the Holyhead - Birmingham runs and pair them with a 158

I've also seen gen suggesting these 2 will stay with LM. Running with a 158 wouldn't be ideal seeing as there's no corridor on the 001 or 002!

 

[Bastiaan]

At this moment for me it's still unclear which class of units LM will keep en which will be cascaded. The 10 class 153s could stay with LM, but could also be cascaded to EMT. LM could be keeping some class 150 units, but cascading all 150s to other operators is also possible. But I think it's clear LM will need either some 150s or all 153s for operating to Rugeley and the Bletchley - Bedford line?

Based on information given here and elsewhere I figured out LM could keep 4 or 6 class 150/0s (so thee-car, prototypes plus hybrids). I think these would be for the Rugeley services. In addition 4 or 6 class 150/2s (dependant on the number of three-car 150s there will be) could stay with LM, possibly for Bedford - Bletchley.
But I could be horribly wrong with these numbers!

 

[MCR247]

I've also seen gen suggesting these 2 will stay with LM. Running with a 158 wouldn't be ideal seeing as there's no corridor on the 001 or 002!

And there's no ERTMS fitted

 

[dooton]

At this moment for me it's still unclear which class of units LM will keep en which will be cascaded. The 10 class 153s could stay with LM, but could also be cascaded to EMT. LM could be keeping some class 150 units, but cascading all 150s to other operators is also possible. But I think it's clear LM will need either some 150s or all 153s for operating to Rugeley and the Bletchley - Bedford line?

Based on information given here and elsewhere I figured out LM could keep 4 or 6 class 150/0s (so thee-car, prototypes plus hybrids). I think these would be for the Rugeley services. In addition 4 or 6 class 150/2s (dependant on the number of three-car 150s there will be) could stay with LM, possibly for Bedford - Bletchley.
But I could be horribly wrong with these numbers!

London Midland only have 2, 2 car 150/2's, so I don't know where you got your information from?

 

[fgwrich]

London Midland only have 2, 2 car 150/2's, so I don't know where you got your information from?

2x 2 Car 150/2s whilst the rest of the LM's 150/2 Fleet are currently in the Hybrid 150/1s...So, as LM's 150 Fleet will be broken back up, the 150/1 & 150/2 fleets will go back to as built 150/1 / 2 Fleets...

The Maths on the other hand, ill not be doing at the moment, but it’ll all come about from the total re-organisation of the fleet...

 

[WillPS]

Quick question - how many single dog box diagrams are there for an average weekday? There must be 4 or so at EMT....

My thought is, could there be enough in this cascade to stop single dogboxes working on lines like Crewe - Derby?

 

[Failed Unit]

I think more than 4. Most of Lincolnshires dogbox runs are solo so I think that is 5 alone. Then we have the Crewes. It would be good to see the end of the solo dogbox.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh and remember the 150/2 a couple of the lm ones don't have toilets because thier 52212 (for example) was scrapped.

 

[tbtc]

Quick question - how many single dog box diagrams are there for an average weekday? There must be 4 or so at EMT....

My thought is, could there be enough in this cascade to stop single dogboxes working on lines like Crewe - Derby?

142s replacing 153...

...150s replacing 142s...

...153s added to 155/156s to provide longer trains to replace some longer distance services which 150s still run on...

 

[Failed Unit]

142s replacing 153...

...150s replacing 142s...

...153s added to 155/156s to provide longer trains to replace some longer distance services which 150s still run on...

Hmm. 142 or overcrowded dogbox. What is worse. I haven't really had much pacer pain since they were all reseated but must admit if I am going to meadowhall from Market rasen I prefer going via Barnetby.

 

[Kneedown]

142's couldn't come to EMT since they are not permitted south of Chesterfield.
Shame as i honestly think that, apart from the ride, they are better than 153's. Certainly from a Drivers perspective.

We certainly don't need any more Sprinters of any description thank you very much. What we really need doesn't exist or isn't available in sufficient numbers to make it worthwhile, ie a shedload of Voyager/Meridien/Adelante's to cover the Liverpool-Norwich's.

 

[WillPS]

142's couldn't come to EMT since they are not permitted south of Chesterfield.
Shame as i honestly think that, apart from the ride, they are better than 153's. Certainly from a Drivers perspective.

We certainly don't need any more Sprinters of any description thank you very much. What we really need doesn't exist or isn't available in sufficient numbers to make it worthwhile, ie a shedload of Voyager/Meridien/Adelante's to cover the Liverpool-Norwich's.

Well, 9 times out of 10 it's about trying to make things better somehow rather than waiting for something which aint gonna happen. I'd prefer more Sprinters over the status quo.

My position is, has, and ever shall be that 2+3-car Turbostars with corridor-connections are the right option for this route (the 2 cars disconnecting at Nottingham and joining the next service towards Manchester). You'll never agree because drivers hate corridor connections

 

[tbtc]

Hmm. 142 or overcrowded dogbox. What is worse. I haven't really had much pacer pain since they were all reseated but must admit if I am going to meadowhall from Market rasen I prefer going via Barnetby.

Not a great choice, admittedly, but a 142 would provide more seats on Lincolnshire routes than a single 153, and allow a handful of 153s to be used elsewhere.

In fact the seven 142s from FGW would cover the duties discussed here.

Problem with the 142s (well, *one* problem...) is the lack of corridor connections, but they should be okay on lightly used routes like these.

Plus, a minor cascade like this would allow each line to get a more appropriate unit, without complicating things by moving things "too far" down the chain (e.g. some of these cascades have 100mph stock pushed onto "all stops" services).

The "south of Chesterfield" one is correct (from what I know), but Pacers are obviously okay in Lincolnshire (as they perform most duties on the Sheffield - Lincoln service). This mini-cascade would avoid them crossing the ECML.

 

[Failed Unit]

Pacers have done most routes in Lincolnshire. Cleethorpes - Newark covering 150s and Sleaford - Doncaster as diagrammed.

They may have fixed the problem but from the past they were freezing. The bus doors let a gale in when it was windy.

 

[WillPS]

Where would EMT store Pacers if they're banned through Nottingham?

 

[Kneedown]

You'll never agree because drivers hate corridor connections

That, and the fact that Turbostars were pathetically underpowered for the route.

 

[Failed Unit]

Where would EMT store Pacers if they're banned through Nottingham?

Are they totally banned? Could they approach from Lincoln. In BR days the pacers had started the day at either Doncaster or Cleethorpes but that was the early 90s. Other Lincolnshire routes were based out of Crown Point!