Class 159's on lymington to brockenhurst service.

[Helvellyn]

Why should SWT get a couple of 313s for the Lymington services? One of the reasons for getting rid of the CIGs is the cost of maintaining a sub-fleet of two units to run the branch. With the units due an overhaul it was considered not worth keeping them.

There is spare 158 capacity because the recession means traffic levels fell on some routes. So there is only one 10-car diesel working out and back from Salisbury at the moment in the morning peak - I'm sure there were plans for more. This may change in December when the Northern and FGW units come back off their sub-leases.

I think the plan is to still use a 450 at weekends, certainly over the Summer at least. The platforms at Lymington Town have also been lengthened to take a 4-car 450, so the type can operate now without a coach locked out of use.

 

[starrymarkb]

I'm sure their 455 are very similar to the 313's.
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And aren't these units on loan up North to EMT or Northern. I think these spare 158's could be better used on local trains West of Salisbury or East of Exeter making use of the new passing loops and enabling the trains to Waterloo don't have to stop at small stations and a better service would be provided to the stations they miss.

That is the long term plan - there will be an hourly stopper Exeter to Honiton (or possibly Axminster) - however this was dependant on a new Loop at Whimple which was going to be installed as part of the new station to serve the Cranbrook development (paid for by the developers), has Cranbrook is currently on hold so is the loop

 

[GearJammer]

So the Lymington Branch is electrified but SWT are gonna use a diesel on it Monday to Friday, and the platform at Lymington Town has been lengthend to 4 coaches and a 158 only has two cars?????? Fair enough if SWT don't want to take on 313's or 508's but using a diesel unit in my eyes just does'nt make sence, use a 450 all the time from Bournemouth depot, i know Salisbury is'nt that far away geographically but train wise its a bit of a treck compared to running a unit up from Bournemouth....... or even Northam depot!
If a 450 came from either Bournemouth or Northam it could run as a service train to Brockenhurst from Southampton or Bournemouth!

 

[MCR247]

So the Lymington Branch is electrified but SWT are gonna use a diesel on it Monday to Friday, and the platform at Lymington Town has been lengthend to 4 coaches and a 158 only has two cars?????? Fair enough if SWT don't want to take on 313's or 508's but using a diesel unit in my eyes just does'nt make sence, use a 450 all the time from Bournemouth depot, i know Salisbury is'nt that far away geographically but train wise its a bit of a treck compared to running a unit up from Bournemouth....... or even Northam depot!
If a 450 came from either Bournemouth or Northam it could run as a service train to Brockenhurst from Southampton or Bournemouth!

But it only goes to Salisbury on a Friday, and returns on a monday and is stabled at Bournemouth for the rest of the time

 

[yorksrob]

Why should SWT get a couple of 313s for the Lymington services? One of the reasons for getting rid of the CIGs is the cost of maintaining a sub-fleet of two units to run the branch. With the units due an overhaul it was considered not worth keeping them.

Perhaps TOC's should be prevented from withdrawing non-life expired stock unless they are prepared to contribute towards the cost of building replacements. The amount contributed could be proportional to the estimated remaining lifespan of the stock at the time of withdrawal

 

[thefab444]

A service train would have to arrive at Brockenhurst in time to form the 05:59 to Lymington Pier, so would be practically useless.

There aren't enough 450s to run the branch, that's why a number of all-3rd rail diagrams are currently covered by 158s and 159s. From May there'll be 8 diagrams for 11 units (158s), so there will be a maximum of 1 unit on hire, hopefully to FGW.

 

[GearJammer]

But it only goes to Salisbury on a Friday, and returns on a monday and is stabled at Bournemouth for the rest of the time

True, can't argue with that, but thats a DMU working ALL WEEK over electrified lines!
Im sorry but i really think a 450 should be used.

 

[thefab444]

If you think that strongly about it, maybe you could buy SWT a new 450.

How about, we'll have an extra 5 444s (this will in effect displace some 450s), and Northern can have 2 - 3 158s that will also be freed up.

 

[GearJammer]

What third rail duties are covered by DMU's?

Its been said that SWT are reducing there number of 73's i thought 73235 had been sent back but did i read that 73109 has been sold aswell? What 73's does that leave them... if any?

.......... and whatever takes over the Lymington branch, i'll be interested to see if it still carries the 'Lymington Flyer' head board!

 

[royaloak]

, use a 450 all the time from Bournemouth depot,

How many 450s are sat in Bomo on a weekday then?
The only reason a 450 gets used on a weekend is because there are some spare, there are NO 450s spare on a weekday that is the reason for using the 158 which IS spare during the week!

I do wish people would look at the overall picture and not just bits, I am sure SWT would rather use a 450 on there but there isnt one available.

 

[thefab444]

What third rail duties are covered by DMU's?

A number of trains from Basingstoke in the peak periods, to London, Portsmouth and Southampton, as well as one or two Portsmouth - Southampton workings.

Its been said that SWT are reducing there number of 73's i thought 73235 had been sent back but did i read that 73109 has been sold aswell? What 73's does that leave them... if any?

73201 left some time ago, 73109 went recently. 73235 is still at Bournemouth but it's not been out on the mainline in some time.

With regards weekend services on the Lymington branch, I had heard that it was now planned to be 158s all week, despite the fact 450s are available.

 

[Train wasp]

SWT should of retained a pair of 442 (Wessex) for the Lymington branch.

 

[jopsuk]

SWT should of retained a pair of 442 (Wessex) for the Lymington branch.

You were, um, joking, yes?

 

[Ivo]

You say that there are no spare 450s during the week, which given SWT's apparent love of them - and, let's be honest, they aren't alone there - isn't that surprising. But if this is the case, why do they sometimes wander off to Reading, even during the week? Surely if the problem is to cover 458s that fail - not that I've ever seen it happen - they would have to deploy Wimbledon 455s (Heaven forbid)?

I would also exted his sentiment to the Camberley branch, which if Thursday just passed is anything to go by uses both...

 

[thefab444]

On weekdays the Guildford - Ascot services are split between 450s and 458s. On weekends they are entirely 450.

455s do occasionally cover Reading diagrams.

 

[royaloak]

Do the 450s go to Reading during the peaks or during the middle part of the day when they are parked at clapham yard between the peaks? If they are sent during the peaks are any other trains short formed to provide the stock (8 vice 12), its these things that have to be looked at.

The Guildford-Ascots use 2x458s and 3x450s on a weekday.

 

[Ivo]

It is fair to say that 450s predominantly run to Reading during the peaks, but seemingly not exclusively. The 1635 ex-Waterloo is a 450 I believe, as is the 1812 ex-Reading (the same diagram I believe?); certainly it has been whenever I've seen it. But the Camberley ones I don't understand. Why not swap the peak 450s for the branch 458s? After all, I thought 458s were painted in main line livery. Last I checked, SWT considered "main line" to mean Reading, Portsmouth, the SWML and Salisbury?

Having said all this, until Thursday I had never seen a SWT 12-car train at all, but to Alton ex-Waterloo at 14:53?

 

[royaloak]

They are BOOKED on these services, there are not enough 458s to cover all Reading diagrams so some of the extra Readings are BOOKED 450. We are talking about SPARE 450s which during the peaks there arent any which is why a 158 is taking over the Lymie line.

 

[Helvellyn]

It is fair to say that 450s predominantly run to Reading during the peaks, but seemingly not exclusively. The 1635 ex-Waterloo is a 450 I believe, as is the 1812 ex-Reading (the same diagram I believe?); certainly it has been whenever I've seen it. But the Camberley ones I don't understand. Why not swap the peak 450s for the branch 458s? After all, I thought 458s were painted in main line livery. Last I checked, SWT considered "main line" to mean Reading, Portsmouth, the SWML and Salisbury?

The 16:35 is an extra peak service, and runs with High Capacity 450 stock. The normal Reading runs are done with 458s (xx20 and xx50 departures from Waterloo).

As to the Ascot-Guildford services, they tend to use 4-car 458s. These are only attached/detached normally at Wimbledon Park due to the time taken to connect the folding gangways.

All this is about SWT making the best use of the resources it has available. To be honest, during the week a 2-car 158 will generally suffice on the Lymington branch - a 4-car 450 would be overkill.

The 06:55 Basingstoke to Southampton, 16:24 Basingstoke to Portsmouth Harbour, 17:24 Basingstoke to Southampton and 22:24 Basingstoke to Portsmouth Harbour are all operated with diesel stock. As is the first train of the day from Portsmouth Harbour to Basingstoke, which then forms the 06:42 Basingstoke to Waterloo semi-fast. A couple of Winchester to Southampton and Portsmouth to Southampton services are also diesel operated.

In the morning peaks most of the Desiro stock is heading to London, and most of it is returning in the evening peak. Hence why some of those Hampshire local services that are peak only are diesel operated - it allows more 12-car trains to operate to Waterloo.

As has been said, it's about the big picture.

 

[royaloak]

Having said all this, until Thursday I had never seen a SWT 12-car train at all, but to Alton ex-Waterloo at 14:53?

Which then runs back to Waterloo to form a peak hour train which has a quick turn around!

 

[A60K]

After all, I thought 458s were painted in main line livery. Last I checked, SWT considered "main line" to mean Reading, Portsmouth, the SWML and Salisbury?

I wouldn't infer anything from the livery of the 458s - at the time they were ordered and painted, I'm pretty sure that white was THE planned new livery for all South West Trains stock, and that the idea of red for suburban and blue for middle distance came along later.

 

[thefab444]

The 16:35 is an extra peak service, and runs with High Capacity 450 stock. The normal Reading runs are done with 458s (xx20 and xx50 departures from Waterloo).

According to the CWN it's booked 8 450/0. The 17:05 to Aldershot is booked 4 450/0. The 23:38 Waterloo - Reading is booked 4 450/5 though.

 

[Drsatan]

To be honest, during the week a 2-car 158 will generally suffice on the Lymington branch - a 4-car 450 would be overkill.

The only problem I can see with using a 158 on the Lymington branch is that 158s only have space for about two bikes, whereas the 3CIGs could accommodate about 10-15 in their brake vans. I can see cyclists being turned away from the train at Brockenhurst or Lymington Pier because all the bike spaces are occupied. From personal experience, there seem to be plenty of cyclists on Lymington branch services who then take their bikes onto the Lymington-Yarmouth ferry.

 

[thefab444]

Well it's not that far to ride from Brockenhurst - Lymington TBH.

 

[Drsatan]

Well it's not that far to ride from Brockenhurst - Lymington TBH.

I don't think anyone would want to ride along the A337 during the rush hour, because they can't bring their bike onboard the Lymington branch train because both bike spaces are in use.....

 

[thefab444]

I've not seen many people using bikes on the Lymington line in what you could call "the rush hour" (mainly students).

 

[wintonian]

It happens more at weekend and off peak generally, when leisure travellers are normally around.

 

[jopsuk]

Half an hour cycling versus ten minutes on the train

 

[Train wasp]

Is the bike hire shop/coach still on the down side platform at Brockenhurst? I remember seeing it some years ago.

 

[MrC]

Yup:- http://www.countrylanes.co.uk/BikeHire/tabid/85/Default.aspx