Class 159's on lymington to brockenhurst service.

[Lukespenceruk1]

With 159's Joining this route in May and the slammers being retired. Will SWT Keep Traction Current on the 3rd Rail On or with these operating keep it off.

 

[MCR247]

Why do we need a new thread? And its 158s taking over

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Why do we need a new thread? And its 158s taking over

Whats wrong with the thread? If you didn't like it why comment?

As for the original post I dont personally think the 3rd rail will be going, after a while they might just get any spare stock to operate the line.

 

[CCF23]

With 159's Joining this route in May and the slammers being retired. Will SWT Keep Traction Current on the 3rd Rail On or with these operating keep it off.

Well 450's will be operating the route on weekends so the 3rd rail will need to stay. Even if this is changed to just 158 operation, it is still worth keeping the 3rd rail in case of lack of diesel units.

 

[MCR247]

Whats wrong with the thread? If you didn't like it why comment?

As for the original post I dont personally think the 3rd rail will be going, after a while they might just get any spare stock to operate the line.

I meant whats wrong with the other thread on the same thing?
If you didn't like my post, why reply/comment?

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

I find it a rather odd question actually! In fact I think it pertains that someone could be up to mischief such as cable theft or other malicious damage.

The 3rd (live) rail must always be considered as live, I know that I don't have it down here, but seeing the large amount of dead foxes, badgers with the occasional dead dog, on my travels I think I'd prefer not to take the chance of going anywhere near it at anytime.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I meant whats wrong with the other thread on the same thing?
If you didn't like my post, why reply/comment?

I never said I didn't like your post just didn't agree with it so quoted you on it.

 

[Mojo]

And anyway, SWT don't control whether the traction current is on or not, it is Network Rail who look after the infrastructure on that line.

 

[thefab444]

Well 450's will be operating the route on weekends so the 3rd rail will need to stay.

I believe it will now be 158s all week, but your point still stands.

 

[CCF23]

I believe it will now be 158s all week, but your point still stands.

Personally i think that SWT should have took some of the London Overground 313's (unless Southern have took them all) as they seem to have good enough capacity for the Lymington Branch (3-cars like the 421's) and the are dual voltage so can run on the a DC current. Also it saves SWT having the run a diesel on an electric line or having to use a 450.

 

[MCR247]

But it makes life harder for SWT, because they already have 158s, so 313s will just be awkward

 

[royaloak]

But SWT have spare 158s, so why take on extra units when they are not needed.

 

[Lukespenceruk1]

but when 158s are running would dc still be on or would that be switched off

 

[CCF23]

But it makes life harder for SWT, because they already have 158s, so 313s will just be awkward

I'm sure their 455 are very similar to the 313's.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But SWT have spare 158s, so why take on extra units when they are not needed.

And aren't these units on loan up North to EMT or Northern. I think these spare 158's could be better used on local trains West of Salisbury or East of Exeter making use of the new passing loops and enabling the trains to Waterloo don't have to stop at small stations and a better service would be provided to the stations they miss.

 

[MCR247]

I'm sure their 455 are very similar to the 313's.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Oh yes, they would blend in with the other 455s based at Bournemouth. I doubt they are exactly the same

 

[anthony263]

couldnt SWT take the former southeastern class 508's instead of class 313's? and if they have spare class 158's then maybe they could lend them to FGW or something while FGW are wiaiting for more rolling stock

 

[CCF23]

Oh yes, they would blend in with the other 455s based at Bournemouth. I doubt they are exactly the same

Look of course i knew that 455's are not based at Bournemouth but having a load of similar (NOTE I SAID SIMILAR NOT THE SAME AS) units within the company would make life easier I'm sure that spare parts could do something called traveling between Wimbledon and Bournemouth.

Anyway why do you have to take the p**s and try and make me look stupid why not just put your point forward in a non-sarcastic and respectful way.

 

[MCR247]

But even if they are simalar, its easier for SWT to just use 158s. Why not? So what if other TOCs need it, they refurbished it, why should they take on 313s/508s on when they don't need to? (from SWTs point of view)

 

[yorksrob]

It's an interesting point. I think a lot of it depends on whether there is a substation or anything else on the line which requires extra upkeep. Certainly, Hastings - Ore remained electrified for many years after Ore depot closed with only one or two trains a day, but I suspect that that was more to do with the electric infrastructure having been designed in the 30's to start from Ore. I also wonder how many electric trains get to Reigate these days.

Of course my main question regarding the Lymington branch is how SWT can suddenly discover a "spare" 158 in the midst of a stock shortage, which would be better used in the North to ease overcrowding, and use it to replace perfectly serviceable rolling stock. The powers that be must truely be napping

 

[thefab444]

Reigate gets an hourly service to/from London Bridge provided by Southern, with additional trains during the peak period. Ore gets at least two electric trains per hour provided by Southern, from Brighton and London Victoria.

SWT were allocated 11 158s to run the Reading - Brighton, Totton - Romsey services and extend some WOE trains. Of course, the Reading - Brightons got axed, and only 3 are used for the now Salisbury - Romsey services.

 

[yorksrob]

Thanks for the info regarding Ore and Reigate (a lot more than my day down that way)

With regards to Brighton - Reading, I'll leave those of you down South with more idea of loadings to ponder whether it should have been axed or not.

As far as I'm concerned, in the event that it was, the spare stock should have gone North to where it was needed.

 

[CCF23]

SWT were allocated 11 158s to run the Reading - Brighton, Totton - Romsey services and extend some WOE trains. Of course, the Reading - Brightons got axed, and only 3 are used for the now Salisbury - Romsey services.

Surely when this service was axed the 158's they were allocated should have like yorksrob says should have gone up North or to EMT where the seem to be needed.

 

[thefab444]

No, they are needed down here for further strengthening of the West of England services to 10 coaches. There's nothing really stopping Northenr from using other stock if they need it. And they were the ones who signed a 0% growth (in terms of stock) franchise.

Besides, one is on hire to Northern at the moment, I believe they've called it "Bingo". :roll:

 

[yorksrob]

No, they are needed down here for further strengthening of the West of England services to 10 coaches. There's nothing really stopping Northenr from using other stock if they need it. And they were the ones who signed a 0% growth (in terms of stock) franchise.

Besides, one is on hire to Northern at the moment, I believe they've called it "Bingo". :roll:

If they're needed down there for strengthening West of England services, then you haven't got them spare for the Lymington Branch.

Frankly I'm against the franchising system anyway so I'm not overly concerned with what they signed. However, the fact remains that the Ministry is responsible (in the current imperfect system) for stock cascading, and they should have made SWT fix the CIG's and moved an extra 158 north.

 

[thefab444]

Northern are quite at liberty to do what their predessors did... run the dreaded LHCS. If they'd wanted stock they should've negotiated some from the DFT when signing the franchise, they probably couldn't as there isn't any available.

 

[GearJammer]

As far as im aware, Bournemouth men currently work the lymington branch with the 3 CIGS also being bournemouth based, will bournemouth recieve an allocation of 158's? I understand that all the SWT diesel fleet is currantly based at Salisbury! At the moment if a CIG fails on the branch then the other one can easily come up from bournemouth to take over, its not gonna be as easy to get a 158/9 over from Salisbury if something goes wrong, so logic would say that bournemouth would need 2 units based there!
Also i presume that the units would need swapping over at the weekends between Bournemouth and Salisbury for maintenance, surely this has to be an additional cost for SWT in track access charges and crewing etc even for empty stock moves between BM & SB.
I have to agree with an earlier post made on here, it would make more sence for SWT to get a pair of 313's or 508's (or use a 450) or any third rail electric to use on the branch and have them permanently based at Bournemouth where the crews and maintenance facilities are!
Lastly are Bournemouth crews trained on 158/9's? If they need to be trained on the DMU's then surely they can be just as easily trained on any new type of EMU/DMU based at the depot?

 

[A60K]

Look of course i knew that 455's are not based at Bournemouth but having a load of similar (NOTE I SAID SIMILAR NOT THE SAME AS) units within the company would make life easier I'm sure that spare parts could do something called traveling between Wimbledon and Bournemouth.

There's very little similarity between a 313 and a 455 - they're different families of train altogether.

 

[anthony263]

Northern are quite at liberty to do what their predessors did... run the dreaded LHCS. If they'd wanted stock they should've negotiated some from the DFT when signing the franchise, they probably couldn't as there isn't any available.

Aren't Northern supposed to be looking at Loco hauled trains for their blackpool route?

 

[yorksrob]

they probably couldn't as there isn't any available.

Quite !

 

[thefab444]

Bournemouth will not be getting an allocation of 158s, a unit will work down from Salisbury to Lymington on Monday morning, run the branch until Friday, stabling at Bourenmouth overnight, and then return to Salisbury. Saturday and Sunday will be their own self-contained diagrams from Salisbury. There will be no more ECS moves than there are currently. Salisbury isn't exactly hundreds of miles away so I'm sure a unit could be scrambled from there in the event of failure. It makes more sense to use stock already being paid for than take on extra stock, since SWT's new franchise they've been very unwilling to spend extra money - hence the disposal of most of the 73 fleet and the 121, the VEP and now the CIGs.

Quite !

Exactly.