Class 158s - anybody else find them horrid?

[387star]

Just compare them with the 377s for a moment.


The 377s have appalling suspension! They not only bounce but make terrible banging noises on the track to Brighton. A FGW 158 on the other hand glides over the same track and gives a much superior ride

 

[Captain Chaos]

I love the 158's. I like the 180's but as we have seen recently they are still rather troublesome which is a shame really as I think they are nice units. 158's and HST's are my favourite trains together with the 170's. I think the 170 is probably the best of the modern DMU's.

 

[Aictos]

Nothing wrong with the 158s other then not more 3 or 4 car versions not built, they are equally at home on express or stopping services.

Plus they work in service with other 15X trains and also 170s, compared to 185s, 180s which can really only work in multiple with other members of the same class as they are non standard designs.

That aside, they are very comfortable to use and I hope they stay in service for a great deal longer.

 

[strange6]

Very quiet and smooth riding traction they are. Good view out of the windows and comfortable. Very well engineered trains in my opinion and will easily last 50 years service.

 

[sonic2009]

I quite like the NEW Arriva Trains Wales class 158, light airy and comfortable seats

 

[ChrisCooper]

Ride quality is one thing the 158s really have going for them. Personally I think the 158s rank as one of the best all round riding trains ever. I suppose again it's their all round nature coming in, they are just as at home on a mainline doing 90 as they are on a jointed track rural line.

 

[Liam]

I don't think they fit right in Scotland

They are actually perfect for Scotland. They work because they are designed as long distance trains, but they're generally working on lines with a lower line speed with longer journey imes.

 

[Lineside]

Wow! I am surprised at just how many responses this discussion has already gathered in such a short time (fastest growing thread in the quickest time? )

Thanks everybody for your replies and opinions. It would seem that many of you are avid Class 158 lovers and I'm so sorry to have appeared to have trod on a few toes by saying how much I dislike them. I guess it's all a matter of personal taste. I just find them badly designed more than anything - and the seats kind of feel too low when you sit in them (doesn't help when you're as lanky as me though! ).

I know they've been in operation for something like 22 years now but a lot of the refurbishments over the years have just been cosmetic improvements, they haven't addressed the poor reliability of the air con for instance (many a time I have used them in warm weather they seem to have the four window openings unlocked) or the very loud train noise when in motion.

LE Greys is right about them being a tad inadequate the very first time they replaced a lot of Loco-hauled diagrams such as the Liverpool - Newcastle transpennine express route in 1989. IT was something like 7 loco-hauled carriages reduced to a 2 or 3 car Class 158 sprinter, which was a bit of a step down in terms of capacity wasn't it? I also agree that, when compared to the class 156 - which at least has windows you can open in hot weather, at the risk of creating more train noise at speeds - the class 158 has a slightly inferior quality ride. The class 156s built by Metro-Cammell have been very robust over the last 20 or so years and they appear to have a bit more resilience to them than the 158s .... but again that's just my own view, so please don't shoot me down for saying that!

Chris Cooper's first comments also seem to echo my sentiments ..... the experiences I have had travelling on Central Trains 158s in the past are almost identical to the ones you have encountered. They must be doing something wrong here!

 

[LE Greys]

They are actually perfect for Scotland. They work because they are designed as long distance trains, but they're generally working on lines with a lower line speed with longer journey imes.

I've always preferred 156s for that sort of duty. Personally, I would split most of the 158 turns in Scotland between 156s and 170s. Aberdeen-Inverness would become an all 170 operation, with 156s returning to the Far North and Kyle routes. This assumes that electrification displaces the Corkerhill and Haymarket units northwards, although some might need to stay for Kilmarnock and Stranraer turns.

But then I do have strange tastes (this is the chap who would rather travel in a Voyager than a 444). I don't like air-con, preferring open windows, and there's something about the 158 ride that just doesn't agree with me. It's the same with Desiros, it just feels wrong.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Chris Cooper's first comments also seem to echo my sentiments ..... the experiences I have had travelling on Central Trains 158s in the past are almost identical to the ones you have encountered. They must be doing something wrong here!

I don't think Central Trains maintained their units as well as they should have. The Scotrail ones are in much better condition.

 

[Yew]

I am always impressed by the 156 ride quality, It kind of had the balance between the harder ride of a 158 (maybe due to harder seats) and the Floatier ride of a 150

Personally I think the 150 rides best, but only because it replaces a pacer on that route!

 

[SprinterMan]

Providing the air-con is working, I think they are the most comfortable regional DMU in use today. Less nosiy than 150/153/155/156, nicer interior than 170/175. Theya re fine units (especially ATW's newly refurb'ed ones - lovely!)

 

[thefab444]

I'm quite partial to 158/9s, but some of them are pretty dreadful and as someone else picked up on, way too short for some of the duties they work. The SWT examples have got to be the best in the fleet, simply because they retain the original seating but have an upgraded airconditioning system that does occasionally work in the summer, are properly maintained at a dedicated depot, and are nearly always well presented and clean.

 

[BestWestern]

I'm glad that there is a clear feeling that 158's are in fact generally good trains, and I would certainly agree. The 158 is a solid and dependable unit, and represents the best of the late BR stock. I would certainly rather travel on a 158 than sit in the nasty low-rent interior of a Turbo or Networker, or a 323 up north. A well looked after, nicely upholstered and liveried 158 set will offer a travelling environment just as good as any new DMU. As somebody has already pointed out, you need to travel on a SWT 158 before judging, don't assume they are all as shabby as certain other TOCs' examples. The SWT refurbishment and ongoing excellent maintenance demonstrate the dramatic difference between operators who are willing to care for their trains, and those who view them simply as a chunk of metal with a job to do.

As for the aircon issue, it was initially designed to run on CFC-based chemicals, which are now illegal. However, the system can and will still work effectively, but again, it needs to be looked after. Too many TOC's just can be arsed to fix it when it needs attention. The toilets aren't wonderful, and they do sometimes lose the fight with the Richard III's, but this is easily resolved by fitting new equipment at refurb, something which is not unreasonable when the existing stuff is 20 years old! Again we come back to SWT, who fitted chemical retention equipment on their 158's several years back now. The perceived problem with sloww boarding on busy services is unavoidable really, and I certainly prefer a door at each end of the coach on a long run, rather than sitting on a glorified suburban train.

 

[anthony263]

I agree that SWT do have the best class 158's in the uk, although i have yet to travel on any scotrail class 158's.

FGW have done a good job refurbishing them to work the Cardiff - Portsmouth route although they do need a 4th carriage.

ATW's refurbished class 158's are nice to travel on as they are a lot brighter than when they still had the old interior.

 

[185]

The ex RRNE 3-car 158s (Northern Spirit) were the best. Comfortably cope with a 5 hour journey. None of the hard seated rubbish working over the pennines now that simply 'look nice'. FirstGroup Transpennine Express were quick to say how awful the 158s were- they were fine under Arriva Trains, it was only when they took over they decided to try make them look awful, so the dustbin 185s would look infinitely better. At least Northern Spirit and Arriva looked after them.

 

[Aictos]

I've used them a few times once for 4 hours straight which is certainly preferable to a 14X which I've also spent the same time on once.

I've done a fair few trips on the East Midlands Trains allocation of Class 158s and the recent refurbishment has returned them to a as new condition, I've yet to travel on a ****e 158 and yes that does include Northern who do a decent job with theirs.

Call me bias but if any First Scotrail 158s are cascaded due to the electrification programmes in Scotland then East Midlands Trains or the next franchise holder should get first dabs on them then Northern/First Great Western.

 

[The Snap]

Like many it seems, I'm affraid I have to disagree with the OP!! EMT's 158s are particualrly pleasant I find, very nicely refurbished, comfortable, relatively quiet and quite quick off the line. The old TPE ones were also pretty nice (I forget where/with whom they ended up?). Northern's are nice too, although there is a significant lack of legroom for the taller passenger compared to EMT's...

I'd have a 158 over a 175 any day of the week!

 

[WelshBluebird]

Maybe it is because I am used being on a pacer or a 150 sprinter, but I find 158's brilliant! So much nicer. Although I do think they need to be longer (4 cars please, with more being made available for them to be doubled up at peak times), and possibly aren't suited for some of the longer journeys they do (Cardiff to Portsmouth is a bloody long run in a 158, although I guess anything more "intercity" would stop it serving smaller stations along the route).

 

[BestWestern]

The ex RRNE 3-car 158s (Northern Spirit) were the best. Comfortably cope with a 5 hour journey. None of the hard seated rubbish working over the pennines now that simply 'look nice'. FirstGroup Transpennine Express were quick to say how awful the 158s were- they were fine under Arriva Trains, it was only when they took over they decided to try make them look awful, so the dustbin 185s would look infinitely better. At least Northern Spirit and Arriva looked after them.

The ex-TPE sets which transferred to FGW were in an appaling state when they arrived, and they continued to be operated like that for a long time afterwards. The interiors were shocking, the paint was peeling, and they were complete with TPE branding still on the side; except on the units where all the vinyls had peeled off! :roll: On the plus side, they did have the declassified First Class compartment at one end, which was a nice little bonus if you happened to sit down in there. If the 185's have the same awful solid seating as the rest of the Desiro fleets, then I'd pay double to have a 158 with some padding on the cushions!

The original three car sets are very good units, FGW still retain 158 798 and it has an impressive complement of four toilets and space for about 10 bikes, which is very handy indeed.

 

[DarloRich]

These mainly two-car long-distance units have been in use since the late 1980s now, and regardless of how many refurbishments and livery changes have been applied to them (see for example the East Midlands Trains livery - which is of course Stagecoach colours) over time, they have always been fault-prone, unreliable and often just plain awful to ride in.

Quite often the main problem lies with the toilets always not working properly, then the air conditioning packing in very easily. I dread the onset of hot / warm summer weather when I need to travel on a Class 158 because you always know that the air con will be defunct and the three skylight sections on the windows are forced open by the guard - which don't even provide much in the way of ventilation especially if the train is packed to the rafters.

These trains are just badly designed and constructed. Much of the interior upholstery is plastic derived and not metal. This causes a lot of inside noise when the train is in motion - the vibrations are deafening. Plus the fact that they very easily become very shabby looking anyway.

I wonder how long it will be before the TOCs realise that you can only polish a turd for so much before it just becomes a pointless exercise. Really, it's now well over 20 years these trains have been in service and I understand that the requisite life span of any train is at least 30 years intensive service before they can even think about retiring them, but these trains are so awful they should be consigned to the scrap heap at once and replaced with superior units such as the Class 175s and 180s. Even the 185s that operate TransPennine routes are much better - and more comfortable.

Is this for real :roll: -I guess you have never been on pacer, a voyager or a pendo!

I was on a Northern 158 ( we dont get them often down here!) from Nottingham to Leeds last Saturday, it was clean, the toliets were spotless and worked wel, the air con was doing good work. It was a very nice train - it was so much nicer than the journey would have been on a Voyager!

The EMT ones i have been on have looked almost brand new, after a heavy refurb!. The SWT 159 i had from Bristol to Waterloo recently was not in a good state and failed at Salisbury. It was a bit of a mess tbh.

Oh and if you want to replace them can you let me have your detials and i will send you the bill for a new fleet of trains. Now, how would you like to pay?

 

[talltim]

I have mixed feelings about the 158s. I too had the horrible Central Trains experience, from Sheffield to Chesterfield and that has probably permanently coloured my opinion. I like the fact that they are light enough to have the increased speed limit on some lines (TPEs 185 replacements are about half as heavy again IIRC and so need to have far more power to keep to the same timings, how 'green' is that?)
I don't like the windows, I have though ever since they were introduced that the top is too low, it kind of gives them an Indian (train) look with nearly as much bodyside above as below. Its very difficult to see out of them when you are standing. I also hate the low roof in the vestibules, its actually not high enough for me to stand upright in.

 

[sprinterguy]

The ex RRNE 3-car 158s (Northern Spirit) were the best. Comfortably cope with a 5 hour journey. None of the hard seated rubbish working over the pennines now that simply 'look nice'. FirstGroup Transpennine Express were quick to say how awful the 158s were- they were fine under Arriva Trains, it was only when they took over they decided to try make them look awful, so the dustbin 185s would look infinitely better. At least Northern Spirit and Arriva looked after them.

Very much agreed, I had many pleasant journies on the TPE 158s in Northern Spirit and ATN days, and it's such a shame that First then well and truly ran them into the ground prior to the delivery of the 185s.

It's a shame that more of the units were not built as three car trains, given that in most cases the work they were intended for displaced longer loco-hauled formations, but of course at the time such expense could not be justified, hence twenty two 3-car units becoming 159s. Overall, I think they are entirely fit for purpose and well suited to the sorts of services they operate; a very good, comfortable, inter-regional train.

In all the years I've travelled on them with various operators I've never experienced any of their woes with air-con either, but I suppose I've just been lucky.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have to say I like the 158s. They're far better than any stock with 1/3rd, 2/3rd doors up the bodyside, like the 185s.

Considering their age, I think they're doing a great job. I haven't ridden one since about 2005 though, TPE from Middlesbrough to Manchester.

 

[158_Sprinter]

For me, the 158 has a sense of familiarity, but living in Shrewsbury for 15 years, the 158 was the best we got! Alphaline, Central Trains, Wales and Borders and Arriva Trains Wales all used them and I can JUST remember the old BR outfitted 158's!
Central Trains made the 158 look ugly and the interiors depreciated under them, but the other companies mentioned looked after them well.

When Arriva began to use 175's on the Marches line, the excitement of new trains quickly wore off and every time I used Shrewsbury station I hoped for a 158 instead of a 175. In comparison 175's were always too cold and the air con made me feel ill.

Also, with a 158 you knew you were going to get a 2 car set and occasionally you would be surprised with a 4-car or 6-car set on the Cambrian line or the old Manchester Piccadilly - Penzance via Shrewsbury service. 175's came in 2 or 3 car sets and it always used to wind me up when peak time services provided by 175's were 2 car and usually a 3 car service heading the other way was empty, while your two car service was full.

 

[simonmpoulton]

Been registered here for a while but finally thought i'd hop into this discussion.
The 158's are fine units providing they have been looked after and received a good refurb (ATW, SWT's) however they can be the worst if they haven't been refurbed and the air con doesn't work. I for one cannot stand sitting in an airline style seat on one of Arriva's non-refurbed 158's there simply is no leg room at all. In addition these non-refurbed units tend to clatter about and give a very poor and noisy ride. Even with the refurb I would say the 175's are the superior units without a doubt with plenty of leg-room, quiet, superb ride quality and I have never been on one where the air con hasn't been working - they are after all a modern 156 built at the same place by Metro-Cammell's successor. As for the 170's and 185's too noisy but they do both have reasonable leg room and ride quality.

 

[asylumxl]

Even with the refurb I would say the 175's are the superior units without a doubt with plenty of leg-room, quiet, superb ride quality

Quiet till they brake!

 

[Kneedown]

Quite often the main problem lies with the toilets always not working properly, then the air conditioning packing in very easily. I dread the onset of hot / warm summer weather when I need to travel on a Class 158 because you always know that the air con will be defunct

The air-con won't pack in on one of our 158's..............cos it won't be working in the first place!

Yes ok, they look nice now they've had a bit of a repaint and some new fitting, do the same with a 142 and you'll get the same result. The fact remains that they are extremely fault prone, not nearly powerful enough and the cab environment is claustrophobic and horrendous. Still, i look on the bright side, they're 20years old now so only 10 to go until they're life expired. Hopefully then a replacement will be on the cards.

 

[BestWestern]

The air-con won't pack in on one of our 158's..............cos it won't be working in the first place!

Yes ok, they look nice now they've had a bit of a repaint and some new fitting, do the same with a 142 and you'll get the same result. The fact remains that they are extremely fault prone, not nearly powerful enough and the cab environment is claustrophobic and horrendous. Still, i look on the bright side, they're 20years old now so only 10 to go until they're life expired. Hopefully then a replacement will be on the cards.

I wouldn't bank on it! I'm not sure which TOCs' fleet you're referring too, but if they really are 'extremely fault prone' then I'd say that's a poor maintenance issue, they should be generally fairly good. Many Drivers will comment that some sets are gutless, but equally they will also remark when one is a flying machine, again that seems to be down to the state of repair of a particular unit. I must say I find the cabs the best of all the Sprinter units, certainly preferable to a grotty 150 any day!

 

[Lineside]

Is this for real :roll: -I guess you have never been on pacer, a voyager or a pendo!

I was on a Northern 158 ( we dont get them often down here!) from Nottingham to Leeds last Saturday, it was clean, the toliets were spotless and worked wel, the air con was doing good work. It was a very nice train - it was so much nicer than the journey would have been on a Voyager!

The EMT ones i have been on have looked almost brand new, after a heavy refurb!. The SWT 159 i had from Bristol to Waterloo recently was not in a good state and failed at Salisbury. It was a bit of a mess tbh.

I guess I'm just unlucky then! Most times though my experience of the 158s have been less than satisfactory. And don't get me started on Pacers, Pendolinos or Voyagers - the latter two are classic cases of style over substance - they've always been awful.

The Pendos are claustrophobic and theyre designed such that you'd think people don't want to look out of windows! The Voyagers aren't much better - too much of the carriage length is given over to entrance porches/vestibules with not enough of the carriage length allocated for seating. No wonder they're always over crowded! And the way the toilet roll dispensers are designed within both of these units, you end up gingerly pulling at the remnants with just two fingers cos of the way the damned thing is fronted with a steel plate, meaning the toilet roll always ends up in shreds.

Again both these units have a tendency for inconsistent air con temperatures whereby some parts of the same carriage are really cool whilst others feel as if the heating is on.... Absolutely useless!

Oh and if you want to replace them can you let me have your detials and i will send you the bill for a new fleet of trains. Now, how would you like to pay?

Very witty!
:roll:

 

[Kneedown]

I wouldn't bank on it! I'm not sure which TOCs' fleet you're referring too, but if they really are 'extremely fault prone' then I'd say that's a poor maintenance issue, they should be generally fairly good. Many Drivers will comment that some sets are gutless, but equally they will also remark when one is a flying machine, again that seems to be down to the state of repair of a particular unit. I must say I find the cabs the best of all the Sprinter units, certainly preferable to a grotty 150 any day!

I'l concede that they are the best cabs of the sprinters but that is more a reflection of the poor design of the other classes.
On a 5+ hour run a 158 cab is a pretty unpleasant environment.
It's claustrophobic with a permanently U/S air con,the gangway doors leak letting pools of water in thus soaking anything on the floor. That and the rattling windows have never been sucessfully addressed. A lot of routes we work with them are heavily graded which means that default power is notch 7, thus drinking lots of expensive fuel with no noticeable performance increase.
Nope, compared to a 222 or even an HST (both of which are used on shorter runs than 158's) the drivers environment is a poor one.