Class 158s - anybody else find them horrid?

[Lineside]

These mainly two-car long-distance units have been in use since the late 1980s now, and regardless of how many refurbishments and livery changes have been applied to them (see for example the East Midlands Trains livery - which is of course Stagecoach colours) over time, they have always been fault-prone, unreliable and often just plain awful to ride in.

Quite often the main problem lies with the toilets always not working properly, then the air conditioning packing in very easily. I dread the onset of hot / warm summer weather when I need to travel on a Class 158 because you always know that the air con will be defunct and the three skylight sections on the windows are forced open by the guard - which don't even provide much in the way of ventilation especially if the train is packed to the rafters.

These trains are just badly designed and constructed. Much of the interior upholstery is plastic derived and not metal. This causes a lot of inside noise when the train is in motion - the vibrations are deafening. Plus the fact that they very easily become very shabby looking anyway.

I wonder how long it will be before the TOCs realise that you can only polish a turd for so much before it just becomes a pointless exercise. Really, it's now well over 20 years these trains have been in service and I understand that the requisite life span of any train is at least 30 years intensive service before they can even think about retiring them, but these trains are so awful they should be consigned to the scrap heap at once and replaced with superior units such as the Class 175s and 180s. Even the 185s that operate TransPennine routes are much better - and more comfortable.

 

[MCR247]

These mainly two-car long-distance units have been in use since the late 1980s now, and regardless of how many refurbishments and livery changes have been applied to them (see for example the East Midlands Trains livery - which is of course Stagecoach colours) over time, they have always been fault-prone, unreliable and often just plain awful to ride in.

....replaced with superior units such as the Class 175s and 180s.

 

[Lineside]

You suggesting the 180s are fault-prone too? I thought all the initial teething problems with them had been rectified. They look nice, but I have to admit I haven't riden on any of them!

Please elaborate!

 

[WestCoast]

Northern 158s have great, comfortable seating. The EMT 158s look brand new with their refurbishment.

To be honest, I'd rather travel long distance on a 158 than a smelly, XC Voyager. 175s are OK, nothing special though.

 

[Darandio]

Really, it's now well over 20 years these trains have been in service

Not "well" over, only "just" over.

Even the 185s that operate TransPennine routes are much better - and more comfortable.

Really? Could that be because the 185 is 15-16 years younger?

You are quite wrong though, even some newer stock still isn't up to the standard of the 158 which when it was introduced, was a wonderful DMU. In terms of 185 v 158 comfort, the latter and older wins every time for me, the 185 is possibly as noisy if not more than the class it displaced on the TP route and is not as comfortable through a number of factors. One is of course the noise mentioned above, along with actual seat comfort, the seats on the Class 185 are extremely hard and uncomfortable.

 

[trains2064]

From a Guards point of view I have always liked 158's. For what they were built for they were perfect.
From a personal point of view they always look like a proper train and I have never seen them in a livery that doesn't look good on them.
Central livery was the best though.

 

[yorksrob]

I love 'em.

It'a always a treat when they're on my local line. Comfy seats and tables. That said, the toilets can be tempremental !

 

[YorkshireBear]

Great trains probably one of my favourite trains i love the feel of them

I disgree fully. For 20years old there great.

 

[anthony263]

You suggesting the 180s are fault-prone too? I thought all the initial teething problems with them had been rectified. They look nice, but I have to admit I haven't riden on any of them!

Please elaborate!

yes the clas 180's are prone to unreliabilty, just look whats happening with First hull trains recently.

they are lovely to travel on in terms of seting, comfort etc, its just that they are so unreliable.

apart from that they are much better than the voyagers

 

[CarterUSM]

I find them great to work from a guards point of view, and most of the ScotRail refurbs have pretty reliable air con. That said, I still prefer a 156.

 

[Yew]

To be fair, I think that if I where in charge of commisioning new trains, I would look at a new guild of 158's Possibly some slight changes to make them into a Mark 4 derivative (rather than halfway between a MK3 and MK4)

I would say that a 150 might have a slightly smoother ride over jointed track, however sometimes they can seem a bit wallowish over points at slower speeds.

The problem with the aircon is due to switching to a non CFC refrigerant

 

[IanPooleTrains]

I like the 158s, I think that the express super sprinters are honest little things, they can certainly hold their own.

Have been on Arriva's version, been on East Midlands trains as well, haven't been on Northern's yet but that might happen this Saturday when I go to die and haven't been on FGW or ScotRail's yet but there is time for that

 

[Liam]

Scotrail's 158's are usually reliable aren't they?

They only problem I can remember with a 158 was earlier this year, when the rear set of a 4 car Inverness train failed, I think the front set pulled it North as there were only emergency lights on in the rear.

Personally, I like them better than Scotrail's 170's.

 

[MCR247]

You suggesting the 180s are fault-prone too? I thought all the initial teething problems with them had been rectified. They look nice, but I have to admit I haven't riden on any of them!

Please elaborate!

The history of First Hull Trains

They had 4x 4 car 222s.

They needeed 3 of these to work services EVERY DAY.

222103 was OOS for a very long period of time after being dropped

They managed to use 3/3 units every day, and of course inevetably there was cancellations, they weren't amazingly noticeable

The DfT persuaded fHT to give their 4x 222 to EMT, in return for 5x 180.

fHT still need 3 every day IIRC, yet although they have an extra unit, there are more cancellations now



I think that is correct, please tell me where I am wrong

 

[starrymarkb]

These mainly two-car long-distance units have been in use since the late 1980s now, and regardless of how many refurbishments and livery changes have been applied to them (see for example the East Midlands Trains livery - which is of course Stagecoach colours) over time, they have always been fault-prone, unreliable and often just plain awful to ride in.

Quite often the main problem lies with the toilets always not working properly, then the air conditioning packing in very easily. I dread the onset of hot / warm summer weather when I need to travel on a Class 158 because you always know that the air con will be defunct and the three skylight sections on the windows are forced open by the guard - which don't even provide much in the way of ventilation especially if the train is packed to the rafters.

These trains are just badly designed and constructed. Much of the interior upholstery is plastic derived and not metal. This causes a lot of inside noise when the train is in motion - the vibrations are deafening. Plus the fact that they very easily become very shabby looking anyway.

I wonder how long it will be before the TOCs realise that you can only polish a turd for so much before it just becomes a pointless exercise. Really, it's now well over 20 years these trains have been in service and I understand that the requisite life span of any train is at least 30 years intensive service before they can even think about retiring them, but these trains are so awful they should be consigned to the scrap heap at once and replaced with superior units such as the Class 175s and 180s. Even the 185s that operate TransPennine routes are much better - and more comfortable.

Have you tried a 159 or SWT 158? How many golden spanners has Salisbury had running?

 

[90019]

I like FSR 158s, they seem pretty reliable. I much prefer the Inverness refurb, the NX ones are just a bit dingy and I don't like the seats in them.
I prefer a 170 over both though.

 

[hougtimo]

What a load of codswallop!

I was just thinking how good the 158s actually are.

I travel on 4 units every week (2 services, return) and they're quiet (engine noise wise) and always on time, and comfortable. They have more legroom than FTPE's 170s, so I don't have to sit with my knees across an empty seat (6'6 here!).

There's nowt wrong with them, and since I've been using them I've only had one failure. Wish I could say that fot FHT or FTPE!

 

[JamesHorrell]

They Are OK I have been on a couple to get to Leeds But i'd rather travel on a 158 then 142 Pacer

 

[317666]

My experiences with 158s have mostly been very good - they are comfortable units, and I'd much prefer one to a rattling, uncomfortable, badly-built Class 170.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think that is correct, please tell me where I am wrong

That's my understanding of events also, though there was a 86 hauled shuttle service between KGX and DON at some point but I don't know whether that was when they first started up or after 222103 was dropped.

Back onto 158s as just about everyone has said cracking units are the 158s some of them are starting to look a bit drab on the inside but you only need to look at ATW to see what can be done with them (internally at least).

 

[ChrisCooper]

I'm not a big fan of 158s, but that really goes back to the appaling condition Central Trains let theirs get into. Reliability was appalling, I think I've racked up more delay minutes due to 158s than any other type, including 2 delays of 2 hours, and many one hour delays. That said my 158 mileage isn't exceptional compared to other types (156, 170 and HST are all about the same, and actually I've not once had a delay knowing caused by a 156), so it shows it's the trains, not the amount I've used them. There is then the regularly mentioned air-con issue. I never liked the original seats that Central kept, too low, and also in bad condition, often poorly padded, loose or missing bases, ripped fabric. As mentioned, toilets. Internal doors often wouldn't work, spent quite a few journies with them opening and closing, or attempting too, all the time. Never really liked the sound of them either when travelling, too whiney. CT ones were also typically quite dirty, and as has been said plastic doesn't age well, and the carpets on CTs were poor too, often dirty or ripped. I even went on one with a whole chunk of carpet missing leaving just the plywood floor. Also, once Central gave up the centre cars, the sight of a 158 on the "Citylink" routes tended to mean it was going to be busy, wheras at least a 170 had a chance of being 3 car. That said most of my really packed journies were on 170s because the preceeding 158 had failed. Central also had a bad habbit of putting them on silly runs like the Leicester-Loughborough shuttle which did not need one, where they could not keep time (slower acceleration and door cycle) and then moaned that they had to put 156s on Citylink (leading to "I know, lets swap our 156s with Scotrail, that will solve the problem better than actually running the right train on the right diagram).

 

[bgstrowger]

Might I mention the related Class 159s; possibly the best DMU BR ever built.

 

[yorksrob]

Back onto 158s as just about everyone has said cracking units are the 158s some of them are starting to look a bit drab on the inside but you only need to look at ATW to see what can be done with them (internally at least).

Northern seem to have spruced up theirs in recent years with their deep purple look. Works rather well IMO.

 

[ainsworth74]

Northern seem to have spruced up theirs in recent years with their deep purple look. Works rather well IMO.

Yeah I've noticed that. Those units are quite nice (and comfy seats!) but the others that Northern have (which I'm assuming are from ATW what with the bilingual signs) seem a bit worn down.

 

[150222]

hull trains have and have only ever had 4 180's the rest are with grand central(5 units) northern(3 units)and off lease(2 units).

 

[yorksrob]

Yeah I've noticed that. Those units are quite nice (and comfy seats!) but the others that Northern have (which I'm assuming are from ATW what with the bilingual signs) seem a bit worn down.

I think they're starting to make inroads into the others but they've got a lot to get through

 

[Darandio]

Might I mention the related Class 159s; possibly the best DMU BR ever built.

Can we change that to.....

Might I mention the related Class 159s; possibly the best DMU BR ever converted.

Ever the pedant.

 

[IanXC]

hull trains have and have only ever had 4 180's the rest are with grand central(5 units) northern(3 units)and off lease(2 units).

Indeed. Whether their promised future contingency comes from a common pool with FGW is yet to be seen.

Back on topic - I've commuted to work for about a year on 158s. Not one failure in that time. Now and again one car will stall, but the other makes up for it, and the driver has always got the other running at one of the next couple of stops.

 

[LE Greys]

I've always thought 158s were a bit of a fudge. They were designed to bit between 156s and HSTs, intended for fast dashes on main lines and work on local lines. In other words, they were supposed to do everything and fit into a gap. Didn't help that they replaced a lot of loco-hauled services as well. There have been plenty of other designs that do that, the Boeing 757 was built to fill a gap as well. Thing is, that it usually ends up with a duff product. It's no good as a suburban unit, the door arrangement is all wrong. It's no good as a local unit, because the ride is a bit weird at 60, and anyway 156s are more comfortable. It's also no good as a main line unit, slightly too slow and not very comfortable compared with a 170.

Thing is, the 158 excels at one thing. The in-between services it was designed for. Start at a big station, make a fast dash along a main line to a junction, then work a local service. There are loads of those all over England: Nottingham-Leeds, Cardiff-Portsmouth (although that might worked better by 170s), Nottingham-Matlock, Leicester-Lincoln. I'd have them on Bristol-Weymouth and think about Newcastle-Carlisle as well. I say England, because I don't think they fit right in Scotland, and don't know enough about Wales to judge, although I do know they suit the Cambrian, because of the dash between Wolverhampton and Shrewsbury. The 159s do an equally good job of Waterloo-Exeter, because that is a classic fast/slow route as well. Just hope that the 159/1s get uprated engines to match the 159/0s.

 

[Royston Vasey]

hull trains have and have only ever had 4 180's the rest are with grand central(5 units) northern(3 units)and off lease(2 units).

Actually they did have five initially, they leased an extra unit while the refurb/relivery programme was ongoing.