Class 150 units

[Kneedown]

They made speculative enquiries regarding the use of, I think, a 47 + Mk. 2 + DBSO rake. There was only 1 available, and seeing as the line is now run by single dogboxes, it would only free up one single unit. Needless to say, the costs outweighed the benefits.

The plan was for two 31 + Mk2 + DBSO rakes, ex Serco i believe. They even did a couple of test runs but it was the timimngs that put paid to the idea. On the mainline even a 31 could leave a 153 for dust, but the station dwell times were longer, as well as the turnaround times at Crewe, and so mucked up the pathing. Thats why the idea never came to fruition. Pity as i was looking forward to driving EE's again!

 

[WillPS]

As a Northerner I really hope EMT don't get 6 of Northerns 156's - we are short enough on rolling stock as it is! The 156's are the only decent unit in the North-West - without starting an East/West Debate, all of Northern's decent units seem to be kept in the East Side of the Franchise - they have 158s, 155s and 143s, whereas we have 156s, 150s and 142s. To loose 6 156's in exchange for 6 150's would be a sad day. However, if EMT want to take 6 of the 158's - well I've no objections

Well we have 180s in the North West (for now anyway). You're not wrong there though, Neville Hill has most of the decent stock, they have the 333s as well. They can't take my beloved 156468, or even 464

Northern's 150/2s are actually quite good with really comfy seats. The ex-FNW 150s are diabolical though and the very reason I avoid Northern and travel with TPE when I can.

Most of the 158s were financed by WYPTE and SYPTE together through Yorkshire Forward, the 155s and 333s were purchased by WYPTE. There are no 143s over here, but there are plenty of 144s and they're bloody awful units (again, some units paid for by WYPTE)! Apart from these units which rightfully belong in Yorkshire, there are an awful lot of 142s trundling about here as well!

The plan was for two 31 + Mk2 + DBSO rakes, ex Serco i believe. They even did a couple of test runs but it was the timimngs that put paid to the idea. On the mainline even a 31 could leave a 153 for dust, but the station dwell times were longer, as well as the turnaround times at Crewe, and so mucked up the pathing. Thats why the idea never came to fruition. Pity as i was looking forward to driving EE's again!

Ahhah! Surely pathings isn't that much of an issue on this route, seeing as for most it, this is the only service train...

 

[poshbakerloo]

So whats the advantage for Northern if they gain 150s but lose 156s.

I think the 150s are better on high use services due to the door arrangements...

 

[Lampshade]

150s are like a giant moving petry dish for cold and flu, they're always boiling hot inside and if someone's got the sniffles, guaranteed you'll have it tomorrow.

 

[royaloak]

150s are like a giant moving petry dish for cold and flu, they're always boiling hot inside .

Bloody lovely compared to the freezing cold 153 I was on tonight!

 

[NorthernDriver]

just from a northern drivers point of view. 143's?? Never seen one in my life & 19 years of driving?

The 156 units are been fully refurbed by northern and a lot of investment has been put into it. 180 out of 190 units livery finished. 96 units fully refurbed. This info from our northern mag.

153's are crap full stop. they have rubbish brake's, the small end cab is crap to drive in and the heating rubbish. The only reason they were taken on was to show on paper an increase in stock for northern as they count as a 2 car with a cab at either end. We as in the northern traincrew feel it was a mistake to get rid of so many 156 units for i53's. But tell Heidi that !

The Heating on the 150 class can be turned off by the driver as it is noisy and does get hot. but we also lose our cab heating if we do...so tough!

The 333 were taken on to work the leeds dony line only but as they didnt fit they were used on the triangle instead and were for no other area.

We have been told we are getting 12 170 class from TPE stock..time will tell?

Though we are a western and eastern company. We are 2 seperate company's in the same livery with differing pay, conditions and units.

 

[DjU]

We have been told we are getting 12 170 class from TPE stock..time will tell?

Surely that would be a bit difficult considering fTPE only have 9 x 170s (all 2 car units)

 

[350401]

Sorry, I meant 144's, not 143's. Tired Typo

Agreed - the 156's are good units and the refurb is of a high standard. Given the East Side units are nearly all refurbished (158s all done, 155s done, 144's done by WYPTE and have high backed seats unlike most of our 142s), its time we saw the west side done. The 150/1s are in dire near of attention, as are the ex-FNW 150/2s, and the non refurbished remainder of the ex-FNW 142's.

One thing we can all agree on is that NT need more units and to send any more 156's to EMT is madness. 170's would be nice, though not sure there are any spare? What routes would they run on?

 

[Kneedown]

Ahhah! Surely pathings isn't that much of an issue on this route, seeing as for most it, this is the only service train...

Pathing is a big issue on this route when you consider the major junctions and stations involved. Derby EMT and XC both "competing" for platforms, Stoke has LM, Vermin and Northern added to the equation with only two through platforms available, as well as sharing an up and down line as far as Kidsgrove, and finally Crewe itself.
I did also neglect to mention the fact that a loco with less than four coaches would be restricted to 60mph on a 70mph linespeed, which the majority of Derby - Crewe is, due to the reduced brake force.

 

[MCR247]

Shave 9 x 170s (all 3 car units)

Surely that would be a bit difficult considering fTPE have 2 car 170s only (/3s)

 

[Lampshade]

Maybe it's 12 x 170 units i.e. 6 x 170.

 

[MCR247]

Maybe it's 12 x 170 units i.e. 6 x 170.

:? 12 170 units would be 12 170s. :? Unless you mean carriages?

 

[royaloak]

I drive a class 455 unit which is made up of 4 coaches, are you saying it is 4 455 units?

 

[MCR247]

I drive a class 455 unit which is made up of 4 coaches, are you saying it is 4 455 units?

Thats what I thought

 

[driver9000]

153's are crap full stop. they have rubbish brake's, the small end cab is crap to drive in and the heating rubbish. The only reason they were taken on was to show on paper an increase in stock for northern as they count as a 2 car with a cab at either end. We as in the northern traincrew feel it was a mistake to get rid of so many 156 units for i53's. But tell Heidi that !

The Heating on the 150 class can be turned off by the driver as it is noisy and does get hot. but we also lose our cab heating if we do...so tough!

The 333 were taken on to work the leeds dony line only but as they didnt fit they were used on the triangle instead and were for no other area.

We have been told we are getting 12 170 class from TPE stock..time will tell?

Though we are a western and eastern company. We are 2 seperate company's in the same livery with differing pay, conditions and units.

I dont mind driving 153s, they might be slow but have never found the brakes to be bad on them or the heating either. I dont recall any 153s entering the fleet nor any 156s leaving since Northern began although there were reallocations with NH 153s going to NL and NLs 156s going to NH to concentrate the types at one depot respective to their areas of work which the former ATN side always had a larger 153 workload. The 'east' gained many 158s as replacements for its 156s which to date is the largest influx of unit. 153s only count as 2 vehicles for the purposes of multiple working not fleet size. Northern lost 2 153s to EMT last year with the class 158 MS cars coming as replacement.

As long as 'Heat Fans' is tripped to stop the heater fans on 150s everything is ok, god knows why they removed the heater isolating cocks from the saloons :roll:

With regard to Northern being seperate companies, that is only true from a Traincrew perspective since drivers harmonisation was killed off which saw the company council split into West and East councils. some grades within the company have been harmonised. Northern is a single entity just not if your a driver or guard.

 

[WillPS]

Pathing is a big issue on this route when you consider the major junctions and stations involved. Derby EMT and XC both "competing" for platforms, Stoke has LM, Vermin and Northern added to the equation with only two through platforms available, as well as sharing an up and down line as far as Kidsgrove, and finally Crewe itself.
I did also neglect to mention the fact that a loco with less than four coaches would be restricted to 60mph on a 70mph linespeed, which the majority of Derby - Crewe is, due to the reduced brake force.

Thanks for clearing that up, it's great to have input from those in the know

 

[Lampshade]

:? 12 170 units would be 12 170s. :? Unless you mean carriages?

Yes

I was confused at first, I meant 12 vehicles, so yes, carriages. I've been confused reading about how FGW are getting so many more vehicles when really it's just spin.

 

[Drsatan]

With regards to FGW's 150s I'm not sure whether anyone prefers the ex WT examples with their Chapman seats, or indeed the two ex. LOROL 150/1 which, I think, retain their original seats. I prefer the latter since the seats on those are far softer, although they do offer less support.

 

[350401]

I've seen some photos of the FGW refurbished 150's - they look very nice. Its a shame FNW never saw to refurbish our 150/1's in that manner. The one's they have refurbished have a very stupid seating configuration in the toilet end and the bike bit - the NT 150/2's show how those areas could arranged whilst keeping to the DDA - the 150/1's and ex-FNW 150/2's have 12 seats in the toilet area and a bench facing the toilet door. The Northern refurbished 150/2's have 18 and none actually facing the toilet door. Yet its much better layout for disabled/buggies as you don't have to navigate past the seats that are there. The seats on the Northern ones are way comfier too. It always surprises me how much variety of seating types/layouts there is in one class of train!

 

[I like Class 153]

I heard that East Midlands Trains will be getting Class 150 units from London Overground on wikipedia. Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_150

 

[northwichcat]

I heard that East Midlands Trains will be getting Class 150 units from London Overground on wikipedia. Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_150

That statement isn't referenced. I could edit that page now and change it to Northern Rail, Arriva Trains Wales or First Great Western and it wouldn't be any less believable.

 

[poshbakerloo]

If Northern gets them, it would be nice if they would refurbish them as their current units...maybe if there are enough...replace a few 142s???
the FGW 150s looks quite nice inside now...

 

[northwichcat]

I think they have 43 class 156 units. Current rumour is that 6 are off to EMT.

The benefit would be a better ability to strengthen services and an outside chance of storing (again) some Pacers.

Northern are sponsored to use 2x156s on certain services by GMPTE and Merseytravel and 156+a smaller unit on other services. If Northern got 150s instead then it would reduce capacity on certain routes, however many 150s Northern get, unless a lot of platforms at smaller stations were lengthened to ensure they could accommodate 6 car 150s. The Buxton line is a good example 4 car 150s get overcrowded and the platforms at some stations are too short for 6 car 150s meaning 4 car 156s are neccessary, unless Northern want to send 6 158s over to the west side.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Class 180 at Northern should be displaced by the returning Class 158s that ScotRail are leasing from Northern. End of 2010

'Should' but Scotrail have apparently been told by DfT that they can keep the Northern 158s until 2014 and Northern will make do with the return of FGW 142s. Scotrail have just fitted GPS systems to all their 158s, including the ones subleased from Northern, which suggests they aren't returning them anytime soon.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Most of the 158s were financed by WYPTE and SYPTE together through Yorkshire Forward

It's just 16 units that were PTE funded (10 MetroTrain + 6 Yorkshire Forward), the other 30 units are a mixture of former First North Western units and extra units acquired by Northern to increase capacity and allocated to Neville Hill but not through PTE sponsoring.

 

[I like Class 153]

:cry:I wished that East Midlands Trains were having those units. I like the Class 150 units better than the 156's.