Class 142

[61653 HTAFC]

Do I remember hearing stories of 143s in the south west blowing up and resultantly being scrapped many years back?

I think FGW/Wessex lost a couple, yeah. Shame about that as they (143/144s) are far nicer units than 142s!

 

[YorkshireBear]

One day I must have a ride in a 142 just for the experience.

It is a good one! If you find one with old ATN seats they are actually very comfy on off peak services.

 

[Starmill]

One day I must have a ride in a 142 just for the experience.

You aren't missing much...

 

[fowler9]

One day I must have a ride in a 142 just for the experience.

Nothing wrong with them for a ten minute trip in to town to be honest. A million times better than the bus I got to town today.

 

[samuelmorris]

Point well made actually, if they 'ride like buses' then they aren't going to be any worse than the bus are they!

Besides, with the current state of uk roads, I'd imagine they're still smoother. At least railways don't get potholes...

 

[northwichcat]

What is the lease cost difference between a 319s and a 142 ? Are old EMUs going to be significantly more?

Depends how you look at it. A peak service operated by a 4 car 319 instead of a 142+150 or 150+150 combination will be more cost effective but if the light loaded off-peak single 142s are operated by a 4 car 319 then it will probably be less cost effective.
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Nothing wrong with them for a ten minute trip in to town to be honest. A million times better than the bus I got to town today.

The problem is Pacers get used on 90 minute or more services.

 

[sprinterguy]

Do I remember hearing stories of 143s in the south west blowing up and resultantly being scrapped many years back?

143613 and 143615 were both written off and scrapped in 2006 following fires.
http://www.locoscene.co.uk/images/tn_loco_1146116878.jpg

 

[fowler9]

Depends how you look at it. A peak service operated by a 4 car 319 instead of a 142+150 or 150+150 combination will be more cost effective but if the light loaded off-peak single 142s are operated by a 4 car 319 then it will probably be less cost effective.
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The problem is Pacers get used on 90 minute or more services.

I know what you mean mate, I've caught a Northern service which has been operated by a 158 and then a few days later caught the same service and had a 142. I'm not sure who runs Northern but they live in a fantasy realm which to be fair has been inflicted on them by an idiotic government.

 

[Dunc108]

I know what you mean mate, I've caught a Northern service which has been operated by a 158 and then a few days later caught the same service and had a 142. I'm not sure who runs Northern but they live in a fantasy realm which to be fair has been inflicted on them by an idiotic government.

142s particularly dominate Manchester - Southport services and its not uncommon to arrive in Southport & be greeted by a full line up of 142s at the bufferstops, and especially the infamous ex-Merseyrail units! They can still turn up on Manchester - Blackpool services at times...

 

[fowler9]

142s particularly dominate Manchester - Southport services and its not uncommon to arrive in Southport & be greeted by a full line up of 142s at the bufferstops, and especially the infamous ex-Merseyrail units! They can still turn up on Manchester - Blackpool services at times...

Well, having to go to Southport is its own form of torture.

 

[Dunc108]

Well, having to go to Southport is its own form of torture.

Tell me about it! riding a 142 over jointed track sections in the Bescar Lane area on the Southport line verged on frightening at 70mph with some serious lurching and shaking on the rails. On the upside, they are relaying some of these dodgy sections with continuous welded rail.

 

[northwichcat]

142s particularly dominate Manchester - Southport services and its not uncommon to arrive in Southport & be greeted by a full line up of 142s at the bufferstops, and especially the infamous ex-Merseyrail units! They can still turn up on Manchester - Blackpool services at times...

A lot of the Southport-Airport services changed from 2 car 156s to 4 car 142s. That's part of the Northern policy to allocate units on capacity rather than suitability.

I agree with the comments about them being bad in the Bescar Lane area. However, they're also bad anywhere where they is a sharp bend e.g. Skelton Junction to Deansgate Juntion, particularly in the Altrincham direction and where they get stopped at a red signal and a Pendolino rushes past on an adjacent line.

 

[Dunc108]

Theyre an experience to ride through a heavy shower aswell, last year on an Ormskirk - Preston the 142 on the diagram was leaking water everywhere, huge puddles under the seats, leaking through the windows & entrance doors & not to mention the carriage coupling area sounded like a waterfall! god knows what may ensue if it gets into the electrics.......!?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whatever and whenever such Class 142 faults can be recounted, as in some recent postings, which make them totally unsuitable as an expected form of public transport to be used by intending rail passengers, there will still be other postings to state their acceptance of such purgatorial journeys. I wonder if those same people will also show the same appreciation of step-access buses of an age where they too should not be expected to remain in service.

 

[tbtc]

The problem is Pacers get used on 90 minute or more services.

Albeit generally services with very few passengers who'll do the full ninety minute journey (Newcastle to Carlisle being a notable exception, though Anvil1984 who works those services regularly states that a 142 is sufficient in capacity to cope with most journeys)

 

[samuelmorris]

Theyre an experience to ride through a heavy shower aswell, last year on an Ormskirk - Preston the 142 on the diagram was leaking water everywhere, huge puddles under the seats, leaking through the windows & entrance doors & not to mention the carriage coupling area sounded like a waterfall! god knows what may ensue if it gets into the electrics.......!?

The reported fires, perhaps

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The reported fires, perhaps

Though unlike the 143s and now perhaps the 144s too, no 142 vehicle has been written off by fire damage... It seems the things just won't die!*



*Unless you smash an 87 into them or overshoot the buffers, anyway!

 

[yorksrob]

Albeit generally services with very few passengers who'll do the full ninety minute journey (Newcastle to Carlisle being a notable exception, though Anvil1984 who works those services regularly states that a 142 is sufficient in capacity to cope with most journeys)

There must be more than enough 143‘s and 144‘s to cover the small number of routes for which a 2 car pacer represents adequate capacity.

 

[Eagle]

I'm going to make a prediction, if I may:

The last National Rail service to be operated by a Pacer will be in Devon.

 

[Buspilot]

To repeat what I have said on other threads on 142s........As an expat and now a visitor to the UK, I find the use of these units, in the condition they are in, with their minature seats, poor ride, simply a put off from using Northern Rail services, in case one turns up. The 101s were in better condition internally when they were withdrawn from service and some of the heritage lines have DMUs it better condition.

The units and their continued use are a disgrace to the UK. Yes, I've heard all the excuses about Northern's franchise bid and what it did and didn't include. The engineering staff must do a fantastic job on a megre budget to keep them running. However, enough is enough.

I would not expect any of you visiting Spain to get on trains in such a deplorable condition.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

To repeat what I have said on other threads on 142s........As an expat and now a visitor to the UK, I find the use of these units, in the condition they are in, with their miniature seats, poor ride, simply a put off from using Northern Rail services, in case one turns up. The 101s were in better condition internally when they were withdrawn from service and some of the heritage lines have DMUs it better condition.

The units and their continued use are a disgrace to the UK. Yes, I've heard all the excuses about Northern's franchise bid and what it did and didn't include. The engineering staff must do a fantastic job on a meagre budget to keep them running. However, enough is enough. I would not expect any of you visiting Spain to get on trains in such a deplorable condition.

A posting from an expat such as this, removed from the constant inuring of the actual physical travelling on this type of conveyance, gives a view that needs to be added to this debate.

My thanks are extended to Buspilot for his posting and for the views conveyed therein.

 

[Sheepy1209]

Buspilot couldn't have put it better.

These units and the general state of Northern's fleet drag the image of the region down - and these things matter. For the regular user it's particularly noticeable how inconsistent the trains are; some routes might see a 142, a 150, 156, even a 158. Their interiors are all over the place, some in excellent condition, some squalid, multiple different styles of seating and upholstery etc etc. It has a secondhand feel, like a second-rate bus operator.

I know how hard Northern's people work to keep these things running, and the service in my part of the region (Blackpool/Preston) is pretty reliable.

It's not the age of the trains - I actually like the 150s, 156s and 158s - some might be a bit noisy, but the trains themselves are perfectly acceptable, just dilapidated.

I lived down south in the early eighties, and I remember just how bad much of the rail fleet was at the time; especially in third-rail territory. This isn't a north-south debate for me - the south desperately needed the investment.

I know several people who will always aim to catch a TPE train because the 185s are seen as so much better than anything Northern can provide; the 158s are OK but for short journeys on busy trains they're not so good.

What I find particularly amusing is the comments that 142s are a 'bus on rails'; that's unfair on the bus industry, there aren't many Leyland Nationals still running. Things have moved on.

I'm lucky; I don't have to commute by train, and I've got the choice of 158s, 150s and 185s most of the time - we don't get many 142s. But even the Blackpool-Prestons are full and standing at the weekend; who knows how much demand is being suppressed.

 

[DT611]

What I find particularly amusing is the comments that 142s are a 'bus on rails'; that's unfair on the bus industry, there aren't many Leyland Nationals still running.

but thats the thing, they are a railbus

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. Bus transportation will always be rubbish. Moreso than 142 travel where at least you‘re not stopping every three minutes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Indeed. Bus transportation will always be rubbish. Moreso than 142 travel where at least you‘re not stopping every three minutes.

Not if you have a bus stop very near to where you live and the railway station is a long distance away from your home. Most buses are far more internally modern than the Class 142 Pacers these days.

 

[yorksrob]

Not if you have a bus stop very near to where you live and the railway station is a long distance away from your home. Most buses are far more internally modern than the Class 142 Pacers these days.

I have to disagree on that one.

I can get a bus to Leeds from the end of my road that will easily take over an hour. I'd far rather spend fifteen minutes walking to the station and catch the train which takes half an hour to get there (even if I lose the Northern Rail lottery and end up on a 142!).

 

[nathanclass323]

When I can get a £2.50 return (ZigZag) to Nottingham on the bus, I think I'd rather do that than travel by train there as it is much quicker for me to get to the bus station than the train station.

I find it really depends on the journey - as another example, I'd rather go to Leicester on the train than the Skylink bus.

 

[Buspilot]

Posted by Paul Sidorczuk
Most buses are far more internally modern than the Class 142 Pacers these days.

I would suggest that those complaining about the state of buses today have a look at this website, in respect of low carbon buses part-funded through the green bus scheme:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/details-of-the-green-bus-fund

Bus companies have received grants for 990 new vehicles with grants from the Government in excess of £75 million in rounds 1,2 and 3 of the scheme. A further 248 buses at a cost of just short of £13 million are authorised under round 4.

The Green Bus Fund's purpose is supporting bus companies and local authorities in England to help them buy new low carbon buses. Its main purpose is to support and hasten the introduction of hundreds of low carbon buses across England.

So where is the Green Train Fund one should ask the Government, to help get rid of the time expired polution producing 142 units and their ilk and fund new units?

 

[northwichcat]

I have to disagree on that one.

I can get a bus to Leeds from the end of my road that will easily take over an hour. I'd far rather spend fifteen minutes walking to the station and catch the train which takes half an hour to get there (even if I lose the Northern Rail lottery and end up on a 142!).

This can vary between areas.

When I travelled to the Headingley area of Leeds from Knutsford a few years back I could have done either of:
1. Frequent bus from Leeds station, costing the relevant bus fare or PlusBus added on to the rail ticket to Leeds.
2. Half-hourly train from Leeds with a slightly longer walk to my destination, costing no extra compared to buying a rail ticket to Leeds.

So I chose number 2.

However, in my local area there isn't really somewhere I could chose to go to where the bus is more frequent than the train.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I can get a bus to Leeds from the end of my road that will easily take over an hour. I'd far rather spend fifteen minutes walking to the station and catch the train which takes half an hour to get there (even if I lose the Northern Rail lottery and end up on a 142!).

When this healthy fifteen minute walking option in all sorts of weathers eventually sees you arriving at the railway station, how often is the frequency of the rail service ?

Unlike your good self who appears to be blessed with good health, there are others somewhat older and not as fit who would view a fifteen minute walk to a railway station a big incentive to use the bus. Holders of ENTCS passes have even less reason to forsake a bus service that is free to use after 0930 Monday to Friday and all day Saturday, Sunday and Bank Holidays.