Class 142

[Starmill]

I for one prefer 142s over 150s any day of the week. Heading down the Hope Valley Line on a sunny day through the Vale of Edale, all those windows to look out of, don't feel boxed in at all, can't get the same experience on other classes!

A 185 is much better for this...
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Im having an opinion at a TOC's rolling stock, is that a crime today?
Arriva can't cal its service Premier class, when it's an old loco with some mk2 coaches put together, there's loads of them south of Crewe. If that's premier service, then Virgin must be Super class.

Those coaches are refurbished up to a much newer, cleaner standard than a grotty original coach pendo interior, I find.

 

[yorksrob]

One of the things I look forward to most about the eventual withdrawal of pacers is that I will be able to accuse their legions of admirers of seeing the world through "rose tinted spectacles" (Then someone else will get to see how irritating that is)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In an idle moment listening to the weather forecast this morning, it got me to wondering if the Class 142 Pacers had the biggest internal temperature range of all the current British DMU and EMU rolling stock in normal mainline service.

 

[northwichcat]

I doubt Maria Eagle is that bothered, the council in Liverpool already pays a bit more to get a preferential number of 156's on local services. I'm not moaning. (Well..... I normally am but you know).

They have 6 x sponsored 156s which are all used on routes that will electrified in the next 5 years. The Liverpool-Oxford Rd stoppers still see plenty of 142s.
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Besides, I've seen wheelchair users on Pacers before... it can be done with minimal adaptation. I suspect it is a minor/technical issue that stops it being deemed to be compliant.

Accessible to disabled passengers means a lot more than getting a wheelchair user on board. Getting a blind, deaf or passenger using a zimmer frame on board is equally important. Pacers have no facility for letting a deaf passenger know anything other than the destination of the train and during disruption they might not even have that because the temporary terminus might not be on the blinds/destination displays.

And while people might not like it repeating announcements makes them more accessible to people with learning disabilities who might not be able to take in the whole announcement on hearing it the first time.

 

[Mugby]

Accessible to disabled passengers means a lot more than getting a wheelchair user on board. Getting a blind, deaf or passenger using a zimmer frame on board is equally important. Pacers have no facility for letting a deaf passenger know anything other than the destination of the train and during disruption they might not even have that because the temporary terminus might not be on the blinds/destination displays.

And while people might not like it repeating announcements makes them more accessible to people with learning disabilities who might not be able to take in the whole announcement on hearing it the first time.

Where does all this end? Why not halve the capacity of every unit and provide every passenger with their own personal attendant/nurse/nanny/guide or whatever!

 

[northwichcat]

Where does all this end? Why not halve the capacity of every unit and provide every passenger with their own personal attendant/nurse/nanny/guide or whatever!

The requirement is to allow disabled passengers to travel alongside normal passengers. The point I was making is many potential disabled passengers aren't in wheelchairs given a couple of people were referring to Pacers allowing wheelchairs to be loaded on to them.

How would you feel if in an emergency announcements were made that you couldn't hear which compromised your safety?

 

[rm88]

I have only recently noticed that the 142 pacers have 3 doors on each side instead of 4.

 

[jon0844]

Where does all this end? Why not halve the capacity of every unit and provide every passenger with their own personal attendant/nurse/nanny/guide or whatever!

This is sadly one of the big ('I'm alright Jack') problems that needs to be overcome.

Making trains more accessible is beneficial to everyone one way or another.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Where does all this end? Why not halve the capacity of every unit and provide every passenger with their own personal attendant/nurse/nanny/guide or whatever!

If you halved the capacity of every unit, then provided each passenger with a carer, you would be reducing the actual passenger seating for actual intending rail travellers by three quarters. I trust that my First in Mathematics hard won in 1966 stands me in good stead here, as the quote above states that each carer will be supplied by the TOC from how I read the quote above.

 

[sprinterguy]

If you halved the capacity of every unit, then provided each passenger with a carer, you would be reducing the actual passenger seating for actual intending rail travellers by three quarters. I trust that my First in Mathematics hard won in 1966 stands me in good stead here, as the quote above states that each carer will be supplied by the TOC from how I read the quote above.

I think the insinuation was that capacity would be halved by providing each passenger with their own carer (Thereby taking up half the seats), not in addition to halving capacity.

 

[Wolfie]

I think the insinuation was that capacity would be halved by providing each passenger with their own carer (Thereby taking up half the seats), not in addition to halving capacity.

That may have ben the insinuation but it is NOT what the English said. My own Maths degree and maths based masters supports Paul Sidorczuk's logic.

Oh, and the post commented on by Paul Sidorczuk is indeed a load of "I'm all right Jack" bull - perhaps, because I have none of my own, I should be able to opt out of paying for the education of that poster's children, etc etc

 

[sprinterguy]

That may have ben the insinuation but it is NOT what the English said. My own Maths degree and maths based masters supports Paul Sidorczuk's logic.

True. It should have been worded "by providing", shouldn't it (For what it's worth, which isn't much)?

 

[samuelmorris]

I can understand frustration vented at colossal structures built for wheelchair access to locations when they may almost never get used, but really, disabled access to public transport should be actively encouraged everywhere, and this includes announcements/displays, including side displays.

The peak service timetable on c2c for example is a nightmare to try and memorise which train does/doesn't bypass your station as they're all different, and if you don't hear the audio announcement on the platform (there are no tannoys at the far end of the platforms at West ham for example), there is no display down there either. No display on the side means you have to lean inside the train to try and glimpse its destination before it departs. Often, it will be scrolling a list of stations beyond the one you want, and there isn't enough time to let it come back round again before the train departs. I've missed a perfectly viable train due to that before for fear of ending up in Benfleet instead of Upminster. If the 357s had the same side displays as 377s, that'd be far less an issue. Now I'm not saying go and send them away to be modified, but any new units being refurbished should have such a feature, it's not particularly expensive, and it's very useful.

Meanwhile, there are all too often situations where the text display inside isn't working, so I have to rely on the audio announcements. No matter if I know the line, but if I don't, I like to have a fair idea when my station is approaching so I can get stuff out of the luggage racks etc.

People whining about money spent on the disabled should consider stuff like this.

 

[yorksrob]

The requirement is to allow disabled passengers to travel alongside normal passengers. The point I was making is many potential disabled passengers aren't in wheelchairs given a couple of people were referring to Pacers allowing wheelchairs to be loaded on to them.

How would you feel if in an emergency announcements were made that you couldn't hear which compromised your safety?

To be fair, if the announcement was in response to a situation that could potentially compromise passengers safety, I would expect the Guard to walk down the train himself to check that everyone had complied with any relevant instructions.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think the insinuation was that capacity would be halved by providing each passenger with their own carer (Thereby taking up half the seats), not in addition to halving capacity.

Not only do I still have a full understanding of mathematics, but I also have a somewhat pedantic and cynical view of badly worded statements that do not fully use the use afforded by the English language to convey their message.

I fully understand your kindly meant posting which hoped to try to correct matters which were not of your making, but the wording that was made clearly made mention of halving the capacity of the unit before then introducing the matter of what would occur in the remaining 50% of the residual capacity.

 

[jon0844]

People whining about money spent on the disabled should consider stuff like this.

People need to be more disability aware in general. One day they might become someone who needs that extra help, and it's exactly why we pay taxes to be spent on things we don't use or need ourselves (or at that moment in time).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

People need to be more disability aware in general. One day they might become someone who needs that extra help, and it's exactly why we pay taxes to be spent on things we don't use or need ourselves (or at that moment in time).

Your posting above and others recently posted have fully restored my belief that humanity does indeed form part of the make up of many forum members.

My thanks to all of you.

 

[Chapeltom]

A 185 is much better for this...
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Those coaches are refurbished up to a much newer, cleaner standard than a grotty original coach pendo interior, I find.

A 185 is definitely not better for it at all! I use the HVL pretty much every week heading into Sheffield, on a 142 you don't feel closed in at all. They are an ideal unit for the Hope Valley Line, well the HVL is an ideal line for a 142.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They are an ideal unit for the Hope Valley Line, well the HVL is an ideal line for a 142.

I have always maintained the Blackpool Pleasure Beach is an ideal situation for the Class 142 Pacers...well I would say this, wouldn't I ?...

 

[fowler9]

I'm a little surprised at the attitude of some. None of us know when we will need some form of access provided for people who are disabled. You can but hope it won't happen to you.

As regards the chap who mentioned Mossley Hill station, I could never quite work out why it gets so many more passengers, I would expect a few more than West Allerton but not that many. Of course the easier access for those who have impared movement will help but it doesn't account for everyone.

 

[northwichcat]

I have always maintained the Blackpool Pleasure Beach is an ideal situation for the Class 142 Pacers...well I would say this, wouldn't I ?...

They could call the ride "The Nodding Donkey."

 

[YorkshireBear]

What is the lease cost difference between a 319s and a 142 ? Are old EMUs going to be significantly more?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

What is the lease cost difference between a 319s and a 142 ? Are old EMUs going to be significantly more?

I'm not one of the members that has access to such figures, but from what's been posted in other threads I get the impression that leasing costs are higher but lower running costs and less down-time do compensate for this somewhat.

 

[rm88]

what is the difference between a 142, 143 and 144
It seems to be just 142's that get the critisicm. Are they slowest of the 3 classes?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

what is the difference between a 142, 143 and 144
It seems to be just 142's that get the critisicm. Are they slowest of the 3 classes?

143s and 144s are a different design from different manufacturers, and seem to be slightly better put together. All have been refurbished to a reasonable standard too, though they do seem prone to occasions of extreme overheating(!).

142s are slightly older and their bus-parentage is more apparent. Also being a more numerous class means they've been split between numerous operators previously and as a result have lots of non-standard interiors. Some still have the original bus benches.

All 3 have a maximum speed of 75mph though.

And if you think 142s are bad, just thank your chosen deity that you don't have to ride one of these!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_141

 

[Wavertreelad]

I'm a little surprised at the attitude of some. None of us know when we will need some form of access provided for people who are disabled. You can but hope it won't happen to you.

As regards the chap who mentioned Mossley Hill station, I could never quite work out why it gets so many more passengers, I would expect a few more than West Allerton but not that many. Of course the easier access for those who have impared movement will help but it doesn't account for everyone.

Could the answer be that the area around Mossley Hill station is more densely populated, especially with students which may not have access to cars? West Allerton on the other hand is located in an area were car ownership is likely to be higher per household.

 

[rm88]

Thats not fair, you cant say whether people in certain areas have cars or not.

What about South Parkway, the station that replaced 2 others. That is next to west allerton, does that have good access?

 

[Eagle]

143s and 144s are a different design from different manufacturers, and seem to be slightly better put together. All have been refurbished to a reasonable standard too, though they do seem prone to occasions of extreme overheating(!).

And also some 144s are three cars long instead of two. (But they all have much shorter than usual coaches.)

 

[Starmill]

Do I remember hearing stories of 143s in the south west blowing up and resultantly being scrapped many years back?

 

[PeterY]

One day I must have a ride in a 142 just for the experience.