Cl360s post Heathrow

[DasLunatic]

Does anybody know what'll happen to Heathrow Connect's 360s after Crossrail takes over the service? Are they set to join their brethren on the GEML?

 

[swt_passenger]

No one 'knows' but there have been regular guesses which basically revolve around putting them with other Desiro 350 or 360 users, with or without the fifth cars.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Most likely to Abellio Greater Anglia as to goto SWT, LM or TPE they'd probably need new cabs

 

[cjohnson]

Aren't the units owned outright by BAA? May they'll sell them on to Thailand who use the same class... when I was in Bangkok last year the airport express route was not running due to long term rolling stock unavailability...

 

[swt_passenger]

Most likely to Abellio Greater Anglia as to goto SWT, LM or TPE they'd probably need new cabs

It's not normally suggested that they would go to SWT, as they're not DC capable.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

It's not normally suggested that they would go to SWT, as they're not DC capable.

Given the modular nature of Desiros could existing AC only ones be equipped with DC if they ever needed to?

 

[swt_passenger]

Given the modular nature of Desiros could existing AC only ones be equipped with DC if they ever needed to?

Of course - but with the lack of gangways as well it must be far less likely they'll come to SWT.

 

[RobShipway]

Are they not more likely to go to either Northern or TPE possibly?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are they not more likely to go to either Northern or TPE possibly?

No really as for Northern it would be a real microfleet and for TPE they'd want to have new cabs installed with corridor connections.

How many units are required per day for the gatwick express?

 

[swt_passenger]

No really as for Northern it would be a real microfleet and for TPE they'd want to have new cabs installed with corridor connections.

How many units are required per day for the gatwick express?

12 x 4 car would allow for 8 car trains to Gatwick only, but there's the Brighton extensions of alternate trains to add, hence ordering 27 units.

The 4 connect trains would also be a micro fleet for TSGN...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How much does new cabs cost relative to the cost of a brand new unit?

 

[gazthomas]

Aren't the units owned outright by BAA? May they'll sell them on to Thailand who use the same class... when I was in Bangkok last year the airport express route was not running due to long term rolling stock unavailability...

I think Heathrow own the 332's used on Express services not Connect. BAA is defunct.

 

[D365]

I think Heathrow own the 332's used on Express services not Connect. BAA is defunct.

They also own the 5 360/2s that we are discussing, which will all be redundant to them as things stand.

 

[Emblematic]

Aren't the units owned outright by BAA? May they'll sell them on to Thailand who use the same class... when I was in Bangkok last year the airport express route was not running due to long term rolling stock unavailability...

That would make a lot of sense if the issue in Thailand is a general stock shortage (maybe needing a bigger maintenance pool) - particularly as, in the UK, they will be an awkward sub-fleet going into what will be a buyer's market.
However, if the problem in Thailand is maintenance or component related, they won't want more of the same units, it would just make whatever problem they have bigger.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

That would make a lot of sense if the issue in Thailand is a general stock shortage (maybe needing a bigger maintenance pool) - particularly as, in the UK, they will be an awkward sub-fleet going into what will be a buyer's market.
However, if the problem in Thailand is maintenance or component related, they won't want more of the same units, it would just make whatever problem they have bigger.

Not sure Thailand would be a viable place:

The air conditioning system on these trains is designed for the Thai climate, and the roof-mounted equipment pods are much larger than those on the UK units.

It might not be viable to add all that to an exisiting unit

 

[Bletchleyite]

That would make a lot of sense if the issue in Thailand is a general stock shortage (maybe needing a bigger maintenance pool) - particularly as, in the UK, they will be an awkward sub-fleet going into what will be a buyer's market.
However, if the problem in Thailand is maintenance or component related, they won't want more of the same units, it would just make whatever problem they have bigger.

I must admit I never understood why when building a totally new line you'd restrict yourself to UK loading gauge rather than a wider one with more standard UIC gauge trains.

Though (as the interior is basically the 350/1 interior including the colour scheme) the airport express units probably feel like a home from home!

 

[sd0733]

As built werent at least a couple fitted with gangways?. Seem to vaguely remember that they were a sort of Desiro UK demonstrator at one time.

 

[cj_1985]

As built werent at least a couple fitted with gangways?. Seem to vaguely remember that they were a sort of Desiro UK demonstrator at one time.

The first 4x were originally class 350/0 (4x car) with Gangway fitted cabs.
At least one, for a time, resided at Siemens/SWT Northam depot

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can't see fitting a new cab to be prohibitive - after all SWT have just done that on their Juniper units (with ex GatEx bits) to make them look like "fake Desiros"

 

[Bigfoot]

Can't see fitting a new cab to be prohibitive - after all SWT have just done that on their Juniper units (with ex GatEx bits) to make them look like "fake Desiros"

All that has changed on the 458s is the gangway and coupler, no structure changes. Admittedly the 460s needed alot more tinkering. It took over a year to rebuild half a crash damaged 450 desiro cab. Not sure they'd want to wait so long for so few trains.

 

[MCR247]

Not too sure why a new cab is necessary to move them to London Midland or TPE tbh

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Not too sure why a new cab is necessary to move them to London Midland or TPE tbh

Indeed. The 350/4s have gangways largely because that had become the de-facto standard for 20m Desiro bodyshells, rather than being specifically requested by TPE. That said, the lack of gangways on the 185s seems now to have been rather short-sighted...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. The 350/4s have gangways largely because that had become the de-facto standard for 20m Desiro bodyshells, rather than being specifically requested by TPE.

Possibly also because they were considered to be destined for a South East commuter operator afterwards, hence 20m and gangways?

 

[cjmillsnun]

The most likely home for them is AGA.

 

[pdeaves]

The most likely home for them is AGA.

I'll offer an alternative that no one has mentioned yet. WRlTH (Western Rail Link to Heathrow). Whatever service pattern emerges will need some trains to run it. Maybe the 360s could be (part of) the fleet, especially if what is currently Heathrow Express gets to run the service.

 

[BantamMenace]

Northern Eastern EMU pool to replace the 321s/322s? Just putting it out there.

 

[edwin_m]

Not sure Thailand would be a viable place:



It might not be viable to add all that to an exisiting unit

Changing the aircon would probably be much easier than changing the cab end.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed. The 350/4s have gangways largely because that had become the de-facto standard for 20m Desiro bodyshells, rather than being specifically requested by TPE. That said, the lack of gangways on the 185s seems now to have been rather short-sighted...

However, given that they often run as 8-car, the presence of gangways is a definite advantage. The first batch of 350s were originally going to be more 450s for SWT, and this probably explains the gangways.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The most likely home for them is AGA.

Agree!

 

[Emblematic]

Changing the aircon would probably be much easier than changing the cab end.

The Thai aircon equipment looks like it's just bolted to the roof of a standard UK profile unit. Likely the same design could be added as a conversion.

 

[edwin_m]

I must admit I never understood why when building a totally new line you'd restrict yourself to UK loading gauge rather than a wider one with more standard UIC gauge trains.

Though (as the interior is basically the 350/1 interior including the colour scheme) the airport express units probably feel like a home from home!

If that is what your production line is currently tooled up to produce, then why not? Especially as there is no need for technical compatibility with any existing service, and the high but level floor of a UK unit allows level boarding with a suitable platform height*. Very much the same reasoning probably explains the use of Electrostar-alikes in South Africa.

*I don't know if either the Thai or SA examples actually do this.