Citaros aren't dangerous...

[Coxster]

...well, not when compared to these anyway

http://www.vanhool.com/images/bussen/AGG300.jpg

 

[mbonwick]

Geez....bet that has some capacity!

 

[Nick W]

Looks suspiciously like it has some kind of beacon guidance.

 

[Gizmogle]

Well...as long as those don't burst into flames, I think they'd be okay running around the streets of London!

 

[Juniper Driver]

I think they are awful and so are bendy buses.

 

[Tom B]

I fail to see what is wrong with bendies when used appropriately. Contrary to what Londoners think, they have been in use quite happily in the UK since the 1980s. There were a few teething troubles, but they were sorted out, and the buses spent a good 20 years doing city centre circles and shuttles to Medowhall in Sheffield. They were only withdrawn for being "non-standard" when First took over (the new "standard" is anything secondhand and crap).

 

[Juniper Driver]

Sorry I cycle in London and I just think when they swing around the rear portion they are a nightmare.I much preferred double deckers and routemasters.Can be hard to get past...blindspots all over the place and a nightmare for the driver to handle.

Then again im not a bendy bus driver so I don't know what they are like to drive.All it is,is two buses in one cutting a driver out of a job.IMHO

 

[Tom B]

Equally you could say a decker is two buses in one?

As for needing less drivers, last time I looked companies were desperate for staff (not at all linked to low pay).

 

[Juniper Driver]

Missed the point there a bit.

 

[Tom B]

Well, you were saying how they were going to put drivers out of jobs, when in actual fact there are more drivers jobs than there are drivers.

As for the trouble when cycling near them, that's surely down to the drivers skill isn't it?

 

[Zamracene749]

I dunno Tom. I remember the old Leyland DABs in South Yorkshire, they were great (bloody noisy though inside) but the issue in London is road space. Crawling nose to tail along Euston road/Oxford Street etc makes no sense with an artic when a DD could take the same amount of passengers and 35% less space. Artics are good in their place, but I'm not certain that place is London?

 

[Nick W]

Indeed, London is definitely not suitable for bendy busses. Even worse was my experience in Bath where the bright orange bus manages to just about squeeze through the roman centre.

 

[Coxster]

They're not great for doing three-point turns in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQneoFLxp4k

...and they do cause cyclists to get in a strop and block roads on green lights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDFWMnhJDhM

 

[Tom B]

I believe there are a few places where they can be useful - I think London route 507 is one of them, which has a short journey time and a high volume of people getting on / off.

A couple of years ago LRT tried an arctic demonstrator up here, I believe it was road space that put them off in favour of buying more Geminis.

A crap driver is trouble whatever vehicle (s)he's in!

 

[Juniper Driver]

Well, you were saying how they were going to put drivers out of jobs, when in actual fact there are more drivers jobs than there are drivers.

As for the trouble when cycling near them, that's surely down to the drivers skill isn't it?

I don't think bus driving is one of the best jobs in the world.

Suppose it's both down to the bus drivers skill and other road users skill.They can be a bugger getting past one though.I just battled with one at Bow on the Mile End Road.

I still prefer double decker's but as I said before I should ask a bus driver before I form an opinion although personally it was a bit of a shock when the 25 buses suddenly turned up on the Mile End Road one morning.

Seems like a few people agree with me on here.

 

[Nick W]

...and they do cause cyclists to get in a strop and block roads on green lights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDFWMnhJDhM

If the driver was able to look more than 5 metres in front of him he wouldn't have entered the bus lane...

The cyclist didn't cause any delay "blocking the road" as traffic would have been stopped by the lights changing ahead.

 

[djw1981]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7173185.stm

That is on top of them squashing cars at junctions, breaking down lots etc. Although the First ones are less reliable that teh Stagecoach ones.

 

[class 313]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7173185.stm

That is on top of them squashing cars at junctions, breaking down lots etc. Although the First ones are less reliable that teh Stagecoach ones.

That doesn't look like a Citaro.

 

[metrocammel]

That doesn't look like a Citaro.

Thats because it's a bendy-coach :P

This must be one of the oldest bendy-busses, from 1980!


They are not a new thing by any means! However, I agree they are not suitable for the busy streets of London. Although not 'safe', Routemasters were tried & tested, and were perfect for keeping traffic flowing on the busy streets of London. Bendy-busses are less than ideal, with their huge rear end blocking traffic while stood still with their cheap, yet somewhat impractical OMO operation. It is also a fact that fare-dodging has increased on busy bendy bus routes since RMs, with conductors were replaced- ie the so-called 'seventy-free' bendy route! Of course, they do have the large teams of over-zealous revenue inspectors- fair enough they may catch a very small amount of 'evaders', however I've been on bendy busses on several occasions, and never witnessed these RPIs. I have, however, seen many people enter by the middle doors, and not swipe their 'Oysters' (fair enough, they may have been using paper Travel Cards, however I suspect some are getting a free ride!) All the times I travelled on RMs, I always had a conductor come upto me, checking my ticket - so 'progress' -eh?

 

[Mojo]

Have you seen how quickly bendy buses get passengers on and off though? That's certaintly an improvement. Whenever I've been on them they've been packed though, I have to ask if conductors could get around the buses in the central area.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Have you seen how quickly bendy buses get passengers on and off though? That's certaintly an improvement. Whenever I've been on them they've been packed though, I have to ask if conductors could get around the buses in the central area.

Yes, they could, by sensibly limiting the standing capacity of Routemasters (and indeed other crew operated buses) and having a suitable amount of buses running every route. IIRC the vast majority of routes that have been converted to bendy bus operation have had their PVR's reduced, leading to more overcrowding. That said, on the past few occasions I've been in London, certain former Routemaster routes now operated by bendies have seemingly being carrying far fewer passengers than they did in the period before conversion.

 

[class 313]

Before I went to London for the first time, I never knew you could get on the bus for free though living in medium size city we just have one set of door buses. Apart from the 84 which is a Metroline route and usually gets some kind of DoubeDecker

 

[RJ]

Before I went to London for the first time, I never knew you could get on the bus for free though living in medium size city we just have one set of door buses. Apart from the 84 which is a Metroline route and usually gets some kind of DoubeDecker

If you're an outsider you're supposed to pay £5 for a visitors Oystercard

 

[class 313]

If you're an outsider you're supposed to pay £5 for a visitors Oystercard

Or just buy a ticket?

 

[RJ]

In that case its not free is it...

 

[Tom B]

You'd only get on the bus free if you escaped the notice of the driver, and in the case of bendy buses, inspectors.

That's one of the problems of dual door buses, people have a tendency to try and get in the back doors.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Like so many disliked things, Bendies have their place, but the big problem is that they don't stay in it. They are great for busy, short distance routes (at least with short average journey length) especially the sort of routes where distances are so short that fare evasion isn't really a problem (since they wouldn't be paying much anyway), or even better where they are free. The problem is when they are used on longer distance routes, where the lack of seats can be a problem if they are still quite busy. At capacity, a bendy will make better use of the road than a double decker, yet will be pretty uncomfortable for anything but short trips. Their length must make them difficult to drive on a lot of roads, particularly in busy situations, aswell, but then the same applies to any long articulated vehicle, particularly with a significant rear overhang. It does always seem strange that you don't need any special licence to drive a bendy bus (other than a normal Catagory D), although I'm sure companies provide special training. Have to say though, I wouldn't turn down a drive in one if I got the chance (or even better an FTR). Wouldn't mind a go in a tri-axle (especially a double decker, or a 15m single deck) either.

 

[Tom B]

I seem to remember that when SYT pioneered them in the 1970s, they provided special training to the crews who worked them.

 

[class 313]

In that case its not free is it...

Seem to have missed the point RJ...

 

[RJ]

Seem to have missed the point RJ...

Its better that you know now that you're not entitled to free travel than when the inspectors catch you fare evading.