Chiltern Railways Business Zone

[Starmill]

I'm not sure. The meal isn't included - no food or drink is. It might not be provided for one reason or another and that wouldn't alter the contract. What is being paid for is sitting in a certain place on a train. Having said that I suppose the employer might assume that's what they're buying and expense accordingly. I wonder if, on one of these all too frequent occasions where there's no food in First Class you could expense replacement food?
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The employee, if they use such a ticket where their company does not permit First Class travel, but the TOC is complicit in it by issuing a ticket that isn't what it says it is.

That is a bit of a strange approach - and I think you're missing another key point with things like Chiltern Business Zone - people might want to pay for their own upgrade. The chances of that being allowed by an employer are fairly slim.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is a bit of a strange approach - and I think you're missing another key point with things like Chiltern Business Zone - people might want to pay for their own upgrade. The chances of that being allowed by an employer are fairly slim.

I've done that in Switzerland before. Buy the 2nd class ticket, expense that, then excess it up myself. In Switzerland the multiplier is around 1.6 which as I've said before is in my view reasonable.

But that would not be prevented by the coach being First Class. You could buy a Standard ticket on expenses and excess it, or the supplement could be offered as it is on Arriva Trains Wales (which *is* First Class).

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't see why a complimentary first class upgrade is "expenses fraud"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't see why a complimentary first class upgrade is "expenses fraud"?

This appears to be the "offending" ticket:

http://buyingbusinesstravel.com/new...-business-travel-scottish-firms-press-release

For some reason it appears to be cheaper than an Anytime Return, therefore I wouldn't have a problem with it being purchased *if and only if* an Anytime Return was otherwise going to be the appropriate ticket. However it *is* a First Class ticket; "free upgrade to First Class" is just sly. It either is First Class or it isn't.

If such a ticket were more expensive than a Standard Anytime Return (or the passenger was travelling at a time when an Off Peak or Super Off Peak was available, or flexibility was not needed by the business and suitable Advances were available) then I would consider purchasing one and calling it "the Standard fare" would be dubious at best.

 

[Clip]

I'm sure they can, but I think it's questionable why they should when you consider we do just about have a national rail network with certain common standards.

And I would still be quite cross if I were an employer, and an employee attempted to pull wool over my eyes with this kind of thing, particularly the East Coast version. Standard ticket with a free upgrade to First? Fraud. Pure and simple.
(I don't think, though, that I'd outright ban First Class, it would depend on what productivity level was needed during the journey)

Christ ive seen some hyperbole on here but this really takes the biscuit. They can offer what ever they like - why is this so difficult for you to grasp?


Ill repeat - they binned first class years ago and they don't want it back. Its up to them what they call their offering and if you don't like it then don't bloody travel on it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Christ ive seen some hyperbole on here but this really takes the biscuit. They can offer what ever they like - why is this so difficult for you to grasp?

They can offer what they like subject to the NRCoC, which did cause trouble to Virgin when they had the "blue zone", but I think has since been changed such that this sort of thing is OK.

However it does require a bit of re-writing of company expense policies to catch out the slyness of it all.

To clarify, it is to me an *employee* who would be committing fraud, not Chiltern, if they put one of these tickets in for a claim against an "absolutely no First Class" policy.

Ill repeat - they binned first class years ago and they don't want it back.

It *is* First Class, in that it is a higher class of travel than Standard which you may not use with a Standard ticket alone (and doesn't fit the "Silver Standard" concept of yore, as that involved First Class style service in a Standard coach). If it looks like a duck...

 

[Clip]

Ill repeat because you seem to be hard of hearing - it is not 1st class.

I don't care what you *think* it is nor do I care whether you *think* people are being fraudulent - in both instances you are clearly wrong.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ill repeat because you seem to be hard of hearing - it is not 1st class.

To all intents and purposes it is. Let's look at typical First Class:-

2+1 seating/better seating than the rest of the train: Yep
Not allowed to sit there unless you have a ticket in excess of a Standard one: Yep
There isn't a higher class of accommodation on the train: Yep
No fee to sit there if you have a First Class ticket: Yep

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

I don't care what you *think* it is nor do I care whether you *think* people are being fraudulent - in both instances you are clearly wrong.

You *think* I am wrong. I *think* you are wrong. I guess we will have to agree to disagree, because neither of us are willing to change our opinions; in this case I certainly am not.

 

[ainsworth74]

This is going in circles therefore he thread is locked. The OP has their answer if they need further assistance feel free to PM a member of the Staff Team and this thread will be re-opened.