Chiltern Mainline Electrification: How will it happen?

[BantamMenace]

There aren't many people who don't think this will happen at some stage in the next 20 years but where will electrification start and progress from?

 

[jyte]

I'm voting for Crosscountry north of Banbury because: EWR has been re-scoped and will now not be an electric railway.

If the electric spine gets itself back together then there will only be a comparatively small amount of work needed to get electric traction through to Moor Street and Snow Hill, and then they can work on wiring the mostly self contained half south of Banbury.

Honestly I don't think Chiltern will be electrified until much later, which is a shame because the southern half is mostly a self contained railway (baring the Amersham issue).

 

[Chester1]

Oxford-Banbury-Coventry if Oxford to Didcot gets wired for GWR. It would allow the introduction of dual volt intercity stock to run Manchester to Bournemouth and switch more freight to electric locos. I think it will not happen for a long time though.

 

[B&I]

I'd like to say from the Brum end, but is there much point to that if you don't electrify out the other way, from Snow Hill to Worcester?

 

[The Planner]

Electric spine is dead and will only happen via infill, FOCs won't buy electric loco's until its is worth their while. You would start where you get the biggest bang for buck, I would do Stourbridge to Leamington first and possibly from the other end to High Wycombe. Then you work to fill the middle in.

 

[adrock1976]

I have voted for Marylebone northwards as my first preference.

This is because out of the Class 165s, 168s (original Clubman), 170s, and 172s, the Class 165s are the oldest (circa 1992) and will be coming to the end of their designed operational lifespan in the second half of the 2020s.

Alternatively, I am with The Planner regarding the suggestion above. Perhaps the 172s could be used to replace some of the Class 150 Sprinters on the Valley Lines network or for the former Midland/Great Central/Cheshire Lines Committee routes around Manchester?

 

[hwl]

Electric spine is dead and will only happen via infill, FOCs won't buy electric loco's until its is worth their while. You would start where you get the biggest bang for buck, I would do Stourbridge to Leamington first and possibly from the other end to High Wycombe. Then you work to fill the middle in.

Completely agree it also has the biggest impact on (urban) NOx levels and helping getting them below thresholds

 

[aylesbury]

Honestly cant see the wires going up in the next twenty years as it wont really benefit anyone ,the current diesel service is okay and new demus will appear as required .The big problem is who will run the lines in the next franchise the current operator is an excellent one and has revitalised our services and my dreaded happening is for one of the new crop of companies getting their hands on it,But the DFT seem to listen only to big money offers and new trains even if the current stock is fit for purpose plus it will probably be a seven year franchise all so as civil servants can look good.

 

[Elecman]

I think electrification should start in 2 o3 locations to speed the scheme up. Start in London Northwards, Birmingham Southwards and say Banbury in both directions

 

[Kettledrum]

If it happens my guess is it will coincide with the introduction of bi-modes or tri-modes with the aim of getting diesel fumes out of London Marylebone and out of Birmingham.

 

[gazthomas]

I think it should start at Marylebone going to High Wycombe first then Banbury and beyond. Optimistically Chiltern’s rolling stock is mid-life at best and bi-mode replacement may bridge the gap. The old franchises funded a series of improvements and maybe this approach can go some way to funding electrification

 

[HowardGWR]

If it happens my guess is it will coincide with the introduction of bi-modes or tri-modes with the aim of getting diesel fumes out of London Marylebone and out of Birmingham.

I suppose that could be achieved by having part-battery part diesel. I just don't see any future even for deferred electrification, at the moment.

 

[jopsuk]

for Harrow on the Hill to Amersham, how hard is converting the existing fourth rail system to that used on the Watford DC and Richmond branch, with the 3rd rail at 630V and the fourth at 0V and bonded to a running rail?

 

[NickBucks]

Doubt it ever will. Given that nothing is likely to happen until the new franchise is in place and the existing 165 units are life expired then surely by that time , late 2020's, technology advances will mean that either super efficient battery powered units or hydrogen powered units will be available.

 

[Kneedown]

I've voted "Other". I can't see any electrification of the Chiltern route in the near future.
I'd like to see it wired along with the full MML instead of HS2, but don't think it will happen.

 

[MatthewRead]

I think it will happen during the next control period engineers seem to be confident but I have mentioned this before and no one rally knows certainly it won't be happening until after the current franchise expires.

 

[NSEFAN]

I reckon that Chiltern electrification will be considered to be a self-contained project. Given that the London-end is where the wires are most needed then this will happen first, with wires extending as far as Oxford and Banbury. Trains will be either bi-mode (diesel + OHLE) or tri-mode (diesel + OHLE + 4th rail) to allow running on the Metropolitan route and beyond Banbury.

 

[The Planner]

I think it will happen during the next control period engineers seem to be confident but I have mentioned this before and no one rally knows certainly it won't be happening until after the current franchise expires.

No chance, it was never going to be before CP7 regardless, more likely CP8.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I’d expect Aylesbury to happen before the main line - it’s unusual as an unelectrified pure London commuter route.

 

[MatthewRead]

No chance, it was never going to be before CP7 regardless, more likely CP8.

True there was also talk on the previous thread I created about Meridans replacing Clubmans which in turn replace Turbos on some services.

 

[BantamMenace]

I’m no engineer but I can’t imagine there are too many structures between Leamington and Oxford/Bicester that would cause too much of an issue to electrification. Could be a cheap per route mile electrification relevant to some current projects.

 

[mr_jrt]

IMHO:
0) Oxford => Leamington
1) OOC => High Wycombe
2) Oxford => High Wycombe
3) Bletchley => Princes Risborough
4) Birmingham => Leamington
5) Bicester => Banbury
6) Marylebone => Aylesbury via HotH

 

[adrock1976]

IMHO:
0) Oxford => Leamington
1) OOC => High Wycombe
2) Oxford => High Wycombe
3) Bletchley => Princes Risborough
4) Birmingham => Leamington
5) Bicester => Banbury
6) Marylebone => Aylesbury via HotH

Don't forget Haddenham & Thame Parkway - Oxford.

 

[JamesT]

Don't forget Haddenham & Thame Parkway - Oxford.

Isn't that a subset of 2) Oxford => High Wycombe ?

 

[The Planner]

IMHO:
0) Oxford => Leamington
1) OOC => High Wycombe
2) Oxford => High Wycombe
3) Bletchley => Princes Risborough
4) Birmingham => Leamington
5) Bicester => Banbury
6) Marylebone => Aylesbury via HotH

Oxford to Leamington wouldn't deliver anything, it doesn't allow anything to transfer to electric traction. There is also no point just doing Birmingham to Leamington, you would do it to Stourbridge as you capture the Snow Hill locals. You have also forgotten the Claydon to Bicester bit of East West if you do it with your suggestion. You would also do Leamington to Coventry, probably at the same time as you did Stourbridge to Leamington.

 

[The Ham]

My guess would be, at least in part for political reasons so as to not be seen as only investing in London, would be to wire up around Birmingham out to Banbury (with a link to Oxford).

This would then allow quite a few services to be changed to EMU (or at least electric running) through Birmingham. This could include XC services (possibly EMU services between Manchester and the south coast).

Given that electrification will almost certainly be post HS2 and so their services would primarily be for local trains and so it's more likely that the electrification of services out of London would potentially be focused on the services to Oxford rather than Birmingham.

With the potential to use 22x's as the Birmingham services (reformed to be single units the same length as the existing loco sets, which would give an increase in capacity) until circa 2035-2040 that would be my target goal for all Chiltern services to be wired up.

However, that still leaves about 20 years and so there's plenty of scope to wire up other parts of the network as well in that timeframe.

 

[mr_jrt]

Oxford to Leamington wouldn't deliver anything, it doesn't allow anything to transfer to electric traction. There is also no point just doing Birmingham to Leamington, you would do it to Stourbridge as you capture the Snow Hill locals. You have also forgotten the Claydon to Bicester bit of East West if you do it with your suggestion. You would also do Leamington to Coventry, probably at the same time as you did Stourbridge to Leamington.

Ah yes, I was still subconsciously factoring in the electric spine, which would have delivered Oxford to Nuneaton. As for Stourbridge, "Birmingham" was just a generalised location rather than a specific point. Probably should have put "Birmingham suburban services" or some such instead. That said, isn't there a Leamington to Moor Street service? Don't know the frequency of that one. I would tend to agree that Stourbridge Junction to Leamington Spa would probably be required to give a viable amount of usage to justify the project though.

 

[centraltrains]

Do you think the rest of the Snow Hill Lines would likely get electrified along with any future potential Chiltern electrification? (Mainly Startford - Tyseley via Shirley)

 

[adrock1976]

Isn't that a subset of 2) Oxford => High Wycombe ?

My apologies - I missed that one from earlier.

 

[ajs1981]

That said, isn't there a Leamington to Moor Street service? Don't know the frequency of that one

Yes there is. I think it's a single or double unit that shuttles between the two. Journey time is probably around 40 minutes, I think Leamington turnaround is about 10 minutes, Moor Street I don't know