Chiltern Loco Hauled and 165 refresh

[MCR247]

Taken from another forum from which it was taken from Rail Express

Chiltern Railways is to significantly expand its loco-hauled operations from the May 22nd timetable change by returning a number of the redundant Wrexham & Shropshire Mk3 sets to use.

Recent weeks have seen driver training in progress on the Chiltern Line, many of these runs using the WSMR stock, in part to keep it in serviceable condition. Removal of the Wrexham & Shropshire brandings has also commenced on the class 67s with all vehicles expected to be re-branded with Chiltern Railways logos in due course.

From the new timetable, the following weekday trains are due to be class 67 operated:

Up services
05:43 Birmingham Moor Street - Marylebone (as currently)
06:53 Banbury - Marylebone (as currently)
06:14 Birmingham Moor Street - Marylebone
10:55 Birmingham Moor Street - Marylebone
15:55 Birmingham Moor Street - Marylebone

Down services
08:20 Marylebone - Birmingham Moor Street
13:20 Marylebone - Birmingham Moor Street
16:30 Marylebone - Birmingham Moor Street (as currently)
18:06 Marylebone - Banbury (as currently)
18:30 Marylebone - Birmingham Moor Street

The sets are to remain in service until Chiltern has enough of its own heavily refurbished and power door equipped Mk3s available for traffic.

Modifications are also in progress on Mk3b DVT 82304 to equip it with a diesel generator set and compressor. Moved north from Wembley to Wabtec, Doncaster by 67014 on February 14th the vehicle was subsequently removed by road to Brush, Loughborough on March 2nd. The generator, which will be fitted in the van area and encased in an acoustic enclosure, will be used to provide both electrical power and an air supply to the Mk3s. This will allow the class 67 to be shut down during station layovers.

Chiltern Railways has also embarked on a £800,000 refresh of its class 165 fleet, the work including new seat covers, replacement of scratched windows and damaged panels, heavy cleaning, toilet improvements, repainting of yellow warning panels, and application of anti-graffiti coatings to interior panelling. The operator has scrapped two of its class 121 "bubble cars" following the completion of spares recovery. Formerly in sandite use and previously owned by Network Rail, 977723 (55021) & 977866 (55030) were cut up on site at Aylesbury TMD on April 2nd and 3rd.

 

[justinsteam]

Interesting stuff

 

[Simon Poole]

I'm going to enjoy catching these when the new timetable comes into effect, i'mm also happy that ATW didn't get the Class 67's

 

[TomJ93]

I'm fancying the 10:55 down to London then getting the 18:30 back.

May can't come soon enough

 

[Rhydgaled]

Are all those times for WSMR stock (ie. mrk3s fitted with InterCity 70 seating and the same interior layout that WSMR had, I never got to go on WSMR and would like to experince their re-refurb, seeing as their trains were so highly regarded)?

 

[Adam_Harrison]

The standard class seats are IC70 still but the First class seats are similar to East Coast and Cross Country seats

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I take it the 16:30 ex MYB and the 18:30 ex MYB will be the ones stabled at Birmingham overnight to form the 05:43 and 06:14 departures then. Any idea how many coaches each set will have?

 

[MCR247]

The standard class seats are IC70 still but the First class seats are similar to East Coast and Cross Country seats

They are the same

 

[route:oxford]

Modifications are also in progress on Mk3b DVT 82304 to equip it with a diesel generator set and compressor. Moved north from Wembley to Wabtec, Doncaster by 67014 on February 14th the vehicle was subsequently removed by road to Brush, Loughborough on March 2nd. The generator, which will be fitted in the van area and encased in an acoustic enclosure, will be used to provide both electrical power and an air supply to the Mk3s. This will allow the class 67 to be shut down during station layovers.

So essentially, can this stock be hauled in service by a non-ETH fitted loco with full "hotel" services delivered by the DVT?

If so I suspect there will be some serious forum frothing at the potential for haulage possibilities. (Clearly the DVT will only be capable of acting as a DVT with a suitably equipped loco).

Next question, of course, will be...

What is the predicted ETH index of the generator?

 

[387star]

Wow Chiltern gets new upholstery for the already superb 165s whilst stock falls apart quite literally on NXEA how the other half live eh

It is fantastic Chiltern are introducing these LHCS services and I imagine they will be a success

 

[jonhewes]

Good news! Out of interest, will the HEP/ETS on the 67s be used at all once the generator fitted DVTs have been introduced?

 

[route:oxford]

Good news! Out of interest, will the HEP/ETS on the 67s be used at all once the generator fitted DVTs have been introduced?

And would that give the 67 more "oomph" for acceleration?

 

[jones_bangor]

I'm going to enjoy catching these when the new timetable comes into effect, i'mm also happy that ATW didn't get the Class 67's

I don't think anyone "gets" the 67's, they are leased. So they may well turn up on ATW Gerald I and II post December, along with the WSMR mk3 stock once the "Evergreens" come on line!

 

[jonhewes]

I don't think anyone "gets" the 67's, they are leased. So they may well turn up on ATW Gerald I and II post December, along with the WSMR mk3 stock once the "Evergreens" come on line!

Indeed, plus there are far more 67s than are required for scheduled passenger operations. There are more than enough to go around

The results of this refurbishment/conversion of MKIII rolling stock will be very interesting to watch. I wouldn't be surprised if this sets a precedent for other operators of non-electrified services in solving capacity issues. There will be a lot of MKIIIs going off lease when the GEML goes over to EMU operation.

The generator in the DVT also means that non-ETS fitted AAR fitted locos can be used with the MKIII sets. On some routes, with lower line speeds, class 66s could be used.

 

[387star]

Indeed, plus there are far more 67s than are required for scheduled passenger operations. There are more than enough to go around

The results of this refurbishment/conversion of MKIII rolling stock will be very interesting to watch. I wouldn't be surprised if this sets a precedent for other operators of non-electrified services in solving capacity issues. There will be a lot of MKIIIs going off lease when the GEML goes over to EMU operation.

The generator in the DVT also means that non-ETS fitted AAR fitted locos can be used with the MKIII sets. On some routes, with lower line speeds, class 66s could be used.

It is not certain that GEML services will go over to EMU operation though?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed, plus there are far more 67s than are required for scheduled passenger operations. There are more than enough to go around

The results of this refurbishment/conversion of MKIII rolling stock will be very interesting to watch. I wouldn't be surprised if this sets a precedent for other operators of non-electrified services in solving capacity issues. There will be a lot of MKIIIs going off lease when the GEML goes over to EMU operation.

The generator in the DVT also means that non-ETS fitted AAR fitted locos can be used with the MKIII sets. On some routes, with lower line speeds, class 66s could be used.

It is not certain that GEML services will go over to EMU operation though? Won't there be an outcry?

 

[tbtc]

It is not certain that GEML services will go over to EMU operation though? Won't there be an outcry?

An outcry from who?

Longer trains, modern trains, more seats...

 

[Nym]

Well, if the're AC versions of the 444s or 10 car IEP sets then I'm sure there won't be much moaning.

 

[junglejames]

An outcry from who?

Longer trains, modern trains, more seats...

Only if they make them longer. Nobodies saying we will get longer trains.
Modern isnt always better.
Only if they decide to cram (sorry i mean put) more seats in them.

Oh, and an outcry from me!! Probably a few others as well.

Anyway, where has this come from? What new trains? What EMUs? All ive seen is a few people on here saying what a marvelous idea it may be to put those uncomfortable Desiros onto the GEML.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, if the're AC versions of the 444s or 10 car IEP sets then I'm sure there won't be much moaning.

Just the thought of it sends me into a cold sweat.

 

[jones_bangor]

The results of this refurbishment/conversion of MKIII rolling stock will be very interesting to watch. I wouldn't be surprised if this sets a precedent for other operators of non-electrified services in solving capacity issues. There will be a lot of MKIIIs going off lease when the GEML goes over to EMU operation.

The generator in the DVT also means that non-ETS fitted AAR fitted locos can be used with the MKIII sets. On some routes, with lower line speeds, class 66s could be used.

Poor old GEML passengers - good for the regions that get the Mk3's. The mark 3's will be good for years to come - so let's hope this is what happens and they aren't flogged abroad.

 

[swt_passenger]

Anyway, where has this come from? What new trains? What EMUs? All ive seen is a few people on here saying what a marvelous idea it may be to put those uncomfortable Desiros onto the GEML.

Running 5 car 23m AC EMUs 'like the 444' in multiple is a clearly explained proposal in the NR Anglia RUS - there's definitely more to the idea than just a few people mentioning it on here.

 

[Helvellyn]

The assumption is that 5-car EMUs on the GEML would just be an updated a.c. version of the 444. But what's to say it could be an EMU kitted out internally like a Meridian/Voyager (WCML version)? By that I mean provision of a galley kitchen to provide some First Class catering. Standard Class will more than likely have to amke do with a trolley, as a new build buffet seems unlikely. But there's still hope that First Class passengers could benefit from something better.

Switching to EMU operation allows better matching of seats to demans, i.e. off-peak operate 5-car sets and make them 10-car in the peak.

As regards to the Chiltern Mark 3s, I think that Porterbrook and Angel Trains will be watching what is done with interest, as much of what Chiltern do could be incorporated into the HST life-extension refurbishment.

 

[jones_bangor]

Switching to EMU operation allows better matching of seats to demans, i.e. off-peak operate 5-car sets and make them 10-car in the peak..

I agree - the journey times on this route, plus the commuter nature of it, makes it better suited to EMU operation as you describe.

 

[NXEA!]

The GEML being my local line, I would agree that its better suited to EMU operation. A 5 car AC version of the 444 would be much better to use on this line, as the 90's, DVT's and Mark 3's don't get to use their 110 mph capability anyway, and I think a new EMU would impress passengers a lot more, as the interiors of the Mark 3's are beginning to look tired. I think these 444 type units should have one driving car as first class, with a coach after containing a buffet counter, about the same size as the ones on SWT's units, with this coach having Standard class seating and the other 3 coaches being Standard too. Doubled up sets could run as far as Ipswich during the day, with the front set continuing on to Norwich, and the rear shunting over to the London bound platform so the unit from Norwich could approach it from the rear and couple up, apart from peak hours when they should run in multiple all the way to London/Norwich. By my reckoning that's about 20 sets needed. Personally I would order 30 sets, so that the two Harwich boat trains could be operated by these, as boat passengers have to use 321's currently, and also they would be able to be used (if there's enough sets left over) on the Stowmarket starters and the 17:02 to Norwich so that passengers don't have to sit on 321's if passengers are going all the way to Norwich. If the MML gets electrified I'd like to see the 90's put through a thorough overhaul, along with the Mark 3's which should also receive a heavy refurbishment, and then the 90's plus Mark 3's put on services on the MML such as Nottingham stopper's and maybe some Sheffield services where they can make good use of their acceleration and they'd suit the MML as its only 110 mph at the moment anyway.

 

[TDK]

If so I suspect there will be some serious forum frothing at the potential for haulage possibilities. (Clearly the DVT will only be capable of acting as a DVT with a suitably equipped loco).

There won't be any frothing as using any other loco will not be practical due to comparison with DVT and the top speed needs to be 100mph.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And would that give the 67 more "oomph" for acceleration?

Yes - the ETH uses about 160bhp with 5 coaches and DVT so looking at it realistically the 67 without ETH will have the extra Bhp. It will most likely save on fuel as well.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I take it the 16:30 ex MYB and the 18:30 ex MYB will be the ones stabled at Birmingham overnight to form the 05:43 and 06:14 departures then. Any idea how many coaches each set will have?

There is provision to berth 4 sets at Moor Street - 2 in the sidings and 2 in the bays.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think anyone "gets" the 67's, they are leased. So they may well turn up on ATW Gerald I and II post December, along with the WSMR mk3 stock once the "Evergreens" come on line!

I think the ATW sets are being refurbed as we speak and will not be the ones being used by Chiltern.

 

[jones_bangor]

I think the ATW sets are being refurbed as we speak and will not be the ones being used by Chiltern.

So Arriva really are planning to run non-Chiltern/WSMR mk3's on Gerald post December? Is this a fact?

 

[colchesterken]

following on from NXEA the GEML is my local line
I dont like the 321s or 350s they seem cremped with the 3 + 2 lay out
I read that the slow Norwich the 17 05 will go over to 317 ex stanstead refurb,units
which i understand are 2 + 2 which will give a more open feel for a long run, of course no one wiould go all the way on that one a assume it is to provide a connection to Norwich from intermediate stations
Could re build a EMU version of the mk 3 as per the Clacton 309 built on Mk 1 I loved them almost as much as the 306s

 

[Cherry_Picker]

There is provision to berth 4 sets at Moor Street - 2 in the sidings and 2 in the bays.

Not really the answer to the question I asked*. :neutral:



*It's impossible to word that without sounding rude, but I am not being rude. Honest!

 

[TomJ93]

If the 442s were AC they'd be ideal to go to Norwich.

 

[tbtc]

If the 442s were AC they'd be ideal to go to Norwich.

The 442s are a good example of what can be done with an EMU. Too many enthusiasts think an EMU has to be a cramped commuter unit, there's no reason why an EMU cannot have the interior ambiance of the sacred Mk3 coach

 

[mumrar]

If the 442s were AC they'd be ideal to go to Norwich.

So long as it isn't raining. The lack of distributed traction hinders them somewhat in adverse conditions.