Chiltern Business Zone

[SS4]

I have just noticed that the 1255 from Moor Street is one of the trains that has the business zone available (I will be travelling on a Friday if it makes a difference) and I have a couple of questions.

A) Will I be able to upgrade for £20 even with a 25p special ticket?
B) Is it worth it?

Obviously B is hard to answer without some added information, I am 6'1" (~1.88m) and quite *ahem* well-built and value personal space. I shall not be using my phone except to maybe check reddit/facebook/messages. I prefer a quiet environment and free tea is never a bad thing!
I do not know when I'll be returning to London let alone with Chiltern and I will have the money (did some overtime in March).

If it was £10 or railcard discounted I'd snap it up but I'm thinking £20 may be a bit too steep for what I will get in return.

edit: Does anyone know how busy this service will be?

tl;dr - is business zone worth £20?

 

[tsr]

Just so you know (you probably did!), wifi is free on services which offer it, so you do not need to be in the Business Zone. Therefore, should your phone have wifi functionality, you can use this anywhere in the train.

 

[island]

Yes, you can upgrade a 25p ticket for the usual cost.

No clue whether it's worthwhile; I've travelled on Chiltern a grand total of one return journey, from Marylebone to Wembley.

 

[Qwerty133]

Isn't business zone £10 off peak?

 

[Flying Snail]

Isn't business zone £10 off peak?

Unless they have changed recently then it is 10 off peak/20 peak.

As to the value I suppose it depends, the seats are bigger with more space at the tables and as long as it is not busy you should have at least a table of 2 to yourself.


Dragging this off topic a bit but what do we think about the whole "business zone" concept?

I don't think it is a good precedent to allow TOCs to offer a 1st class product with a seperate fare structure that excludes regular 1st class fares including through tickets.

I know in the case of Chiltern there are limited scenarios where someone would want to use 1st class tickets on these services; ALRs and Britrail passes and perhaps the odd case of single /returns for journeys with other 1st class operators available, for anyone else it is likely that standard+supplement would be cheaper anyway.

The point still stands though, if CH can do it why not other operators with larger 1st class flows? Rename 1st to Executive class, stop acceptance of all 1st class tickets and introduce a TOC specific range of fares and supplements?

 

[pjnathanail]

Unless they have changed recently then it is 10 off peak/20 peak.

As to the value I suppose it depends, the seats are bigger with more space at the tables and as long as it is not busy you should have at least a table of 2 to yourself.


Dragging this off topic a bit but what do we think about the whole "business zone" concept?

I don't think it is a good precedent to allow TOCs to offer a 1st class product with a seperate fare structure that excludes regular 1st class fares including through tickets.

I know in the case of Chiltern there are limited scenarios where someone would want to use 1st class tickets on these services; ALRs and Britrail passes and perhaps the odd case of single /returns for journeys with other 1st class operators available, for anyone else it is likely that standard+supplement would be cheaper anyway.

The point still stands though, if CH can do it why not other operators with larger 1st class flows? Rename 1st to Executive class, stop acceptance of all 1st class tickets and introduce a TOC specific range of fares and supplements?

I thought any permitted FC tickets were valid in the business zone at no additional cost, although I might be wrong? I agree ALRs etc should also be accepted, if I've paid over £1000 for a 1ST ALR I want to sit in 1ST or its equivalent.

 

[island]

Dragging this off topic a bit but what do we think about the whole "business zone" concept?

I don't think it is a good precedent to allow TOCs to offer a 1st class product with a seperate fare structure that excludes regular 1st class fares including through tickets.

To me it is simply a way for Chiltern to avoid having to share revenue on the Zone through ORCATS.

 

[snail]

I don't think it is a good precedent to allow TOCs to offer a 1st class product with a seperate fare structure that excludes regular 1st class fares including through tickets.

It's ideal for me if travelling on business. My employer will only allow me to travel in 1st if the Advance tickets are cheaper than Standard and then I would have to get explicit permission from a senior manager - not worth the effort. So paying 20 quid out of my own pocket for a better seat becomes my decision. As it makes the total cost of the journey for me just 20 quid I would probably pay it.

 

[RPM]

I don't think it is a good precedent to allow TOCs to offer a 1st class product with a seperate fare structure that excludes regular 1st class fares including through tickets.

I'm pretty sure holders of 1st class through tickets can sit in the business zone without paying the supplement. That was certainly the case originally and I don't think it has changed.

As for whether it is worth paying for, I am unable to comment. There is a blanket ban on Chiltern employees of any grade sitting in the BZ so I have never tried it. The seats do look big and comfy though and there is an at-seat tea & coffee service. Plug sockets & free wifi are available throughout the train, not just in the BZ.

 

[radamfi]

There is a blanket ban on Chiltern employees of any grade sitting in the BZ so I have never tried it.

Presumably you are allowed to pay out of your own pocket for the ticket and supplement if you really wanted to use it?

 

[SS4]

Unless they have changed recently then it is 10 off peak/20 peak.

As to the value I suppose it depends, the seats are bigger with more space at the tables and as long as it is not busy you should have at least a table of 2 to yourself.

That's news to me, I couldn't find anything on the website to suggest it was £10 off peak. As I said in the OP I'll pay a tenner

 

[67018]

Business zone now seems to be 20 both peak and off-peak, the only discount being if you buy the ticket and upgrade in advance off their website, in which case you save a tenner.

Details here http://chilternrailways.co.uk/content/upgrade-business-zone-0

Even without the upgrade, the trains are pretty comfortable in my opinion and the 1255 is unlikely to be packed. But I think the business zone seating is 2+1 so you do get a chance of a guaranteed seat to yourself.

 

[Flying Snail]

I'm pretty sure holders of 1st class through tickets can sit in the business zone without paying the supplement. That was certainly the case originally and I don't think it has changed.

As for whether it is worth paying for, I am unable to comment. There is a blanket ban on Chiltern employees of any grade sitting in the BZ so I have never tried it. The seats do look big and comfy though and there is an at-seat tea & coffee service. Plug sockets & free wifi are available throughout the train, not just in the BZ.

I was charged the upgrade when I travelled on the service around 18 months ago and the guard was adamant that all tickets regardless of class were liable for the supplement.

I didn't argue with him at the time but I did look up the website which did not have anything that gave a clear policy on the status of 1st class tickets. I also looked on here and recall reading a post that did say they were not valid.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To me it is simply a way for Chiltern to avoid having to share revenue on the Zone through ORCATS.

If they can do that what is there to stop other TOCs from removing their premium product from the existing 1st class fare structure to boost their revenue take?

It's ideal for me if travelling on business. My employer will only allow me to travel in 1st if the Advance tickets are cheaper than Standard and then I would have to get explicit permission from a senior manager - not worth the effort. So paying 20 quid out of my own pocket for a better seat becomes my decision. As it makes the total cost of the journey for me just 20 quid I would probably pay it.

I am sure there are people for whom the supplement is a better deal than the regular 1st class system but I did find it rather daft that I was being charged extra by Chiltern with a ticket valid on every other 1st class service in the country including ones with a much higher level of service. All the open access operators were also happy to accept the same ticket and amusingly in the exact same carriage under W&S years ago I enjoyed a complementary full meal service but Chiltern wanted extra for a pot of tea!

Personally I wasn't particularly bothered at paying £10 for it as the coach is comfortable and overall I had very good value from my ticket. However as a previous poster said had I spent over £1000 on a very expensive 1st class ALR I may have been less than amused at the demand to cough up extra.

 

[SS4]

Business zone now seems to be 20 both peak and off-peak, the only discount being if you buy the ticket and upgrade in advance off their website, in which case you save a tenner.

Details here http://chilternrailways.co.uk/content/upgrade-business-zone-0

Even without the upgrade, the trains are pretty comfortable in my opinion and the 1255 is unlikely to be packed. But I think the business zone seating is 2+1 so you do get a chance of a guaranteed seat to yourself.

Yeah, that was my thought, if the 1255 is unlikely to be busy I'll pass and spend my money elsewhere. Especially since WiFi is throughout the train. Just wanted some ideas off forum members who may have tried it to be honest.

 

[furgus2]

I sent this to Chiltern Customer Services not long after Business Zone was introduced:
RE: Business Zone. I know that the Business Zone found on some services is not the same as 1st class but, if I had a 1st class ticket valid on that route/service, would I still be charged the Supplement to sit in the Business Zone. I ask as I will be travelling in a few days time using a 1st class All line Rover.

I received this reply:
No unfortunately a first class ticket would not allow you to travel in the Business Zone. Just for your information, there is no First class services on any of our services.
I hope this helps

A few months later I read some comments in Rail by Barry Doe in praise of Chiltern. I emailed him and said that I mostly agreed with what he said but told him I thought it was wrong for them to want to charge a supplement on top of a valid 1st class ticket. He replied to me:
Their Customer Services ... is quite wrong. ALL first class tickets are valid without further charge including All Line Rovers. I'll take this up with them and remind them they need to brief their staff properly.

He forwarded me the reply from Chiltern's Main Line Manager:

xxxxxx (the Customer Service team member) is incorrect! A first class ticket is indeed valid! I will ensure that she is corrected in her view!
Shortly afterwards I did travel in the Business Zone using a 1st class ALR and it was accepted without question

 

[CC 72100]

Yeah, that was my thought, if the 1255 is unlikely to be busy I'll pass and spend my money elsewhere.

I've been on a similarly-timed working in the opposite direction (13:30, something like that) with a grand total of 4 of us in the front coach. Did the 15:55 back from Moor St which was more heavily loaded, this time for part of the journey I didn't have the whole table to myself

 

[RPM]

I've asked Chiltern the question via Twitter re 1st class in the business zone. They're going to get back to me asap with the definitive answer so will post here when I hear from them.

 

[barrykas]

I've asked Chiltern the question via Twitter re 1st class in the business zone. They're going to get back to me asap with the definitive answer so will post here when I hear from them.

At launch, certainly, holders of interavailable tickets (e.g. an FOR from London Terminals - Birmingham Stations route Any Permitted) were permitted to travel in the Business Zone without paying the supplement.

I haven't heard anything to suggest otherwise, but at the same time where do you draw the line? After all, Map CS covers a multitude of sins, such as Marylebone - Manchester/Liverpool/Preston.

Those using any form of staff travel facilities, however, are supposed to pay the supplement, including Chiltern and other Arriva Trains UK staff.

 

[34D]

Can someone try booking a London-Birmingham FOR on these trains, and see what carriage the reservations get put in?

 

[LexyBoy]

They'd not get reservations.

 

[RPM]

Heard back from Chiltern now. No supplement payable if valid 1st class ticket held.

 

[Edvid]

Business zone now seems to be 20 both peak and off-peak, the only discount being if you buy the ticket and upgrade in advance off their website, in which case you save a tenner.

Details here http://chilternrailways.co.uk/content/upgrade-business-zone-0

That contradicts information provided elsewhere on the site, which leans towards the £10 per off-peak single journey view:
http://chilternrailways.co.uk/mainline/faqs
http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/eveningstandard50

Another issue perhaps worth solving via Twitter...

 

[transmanche]

That contradicts information provided elsewhere on the site, which leans towards the £10 per off-peak single journey view:
http://chilternrailways.co.uk/mainline/faqs

Well that does depend on your interpretation of:

Business Zone is not first class, and any standard class ticket is valid with a Business Zone supplement, which can be purchased with your ticket (if booking at a station) or simply upgraded onboard.

Now I think there's a bit of a hidden meaning there. I think what they're trying to say is: "This isn't as expensive as First Class. So where your company's travel policy prohibits travelling in First Class, you might get away with a Business Zone upgrade. Go on, give it a whirl."

 

[SS4]

That contradicts information provided elsewhere on the site, which leans towards the £10 per off-peak single journey view:
http://chilternrailways.co.uk/mainline/faqs
http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/eveningstandard50

Another issue perhaps worth solving via Twitter...

Interesting, I reckon my best bet will be to ask the guard on board

 

[Eagle]

Can someone try booking a London-Birmingham FOR on these trains, and see what carriage the reservations get put in?

Not sure that would work. Chiltern normally don't do reservations, although I understand that if you specifically book a Business Zone upgrade you get one.

 

[barrykas]

Can someone try booking a London-Birmingham FOR on these trains, and see what carriage the reservations get put in?

Just tried it and FasTIS gave me a "Ticket type FOR not valid for TOC on leg MYB to BMO" error.

That isn't entirely unusual given the seats are marked up as Standard Class in NRS and only available with Business Zone supplements.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[island]

If they can do that what is there to stop other TOCs from removing their premium product from the existing 1st class fare structure to boost their revenue take?

I may be mistaken but most TOCs have first class as a franchise specification so wouldn't be able to remove it.

 

[Eagle]

Just tried it and FasTIS gave me a "Ticket type FOR not valid for TOC on leg MYB to BMO" error.

What happens if you try a route that includes both Chiltern and another TOC with first class (such as Reading to Solihull, XC and Chiltern)?

 

[bb21]

What happens if you try a route that includes both Chiltern and another TOC with first class (such as Reading to Solihull, XC and Chiltern)?

Test booking of Banbury - Stafford via Birmingham Moor Street on the 1107 ex-BAN (1015 ex-MYB) gives no reservation for the first leg and the warning message that the chosen class of accommodation is not available on all legs of the journey. The second leg of this two-legged journey is on an XC Voyager and correctly generates a reservation in Coach A.

 

[RPM]

That contradicts information provided elsewhere on the site, which leans towards the £10 per off-peak single journey view:
http://chilternrailways.co.uk/mainline/faqs
http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/eveningstandard50

Another issue perhaps worth solving via Twitter...

I travelled on the 15.55 BMO-MYB service today and the train manager made several announcements en route encouraging pax to upgrade to the Business Zone. Price quoted: £10.