Cheques reprieve

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It was announced this morning on national television that the decision to withdraw cheques from the banking system in 2018 has been scrapped.

Any relieved forum members?

 

[Hydro]

Any relieved forum members?

Yes, I've just had my morning cr...oh, cheques! Yes, I am relieved. Cheques are still useful for transferring money, or payments, between the likes of you and me. It was a bit shortsighted to announce their impending final death on the grounds of trying to get rid of them from the retail side of things. Online banking is very useful, but not everyone uses it, it doesn't fit in a birthday card, and isn't that handy for picking up a second hand motor out of the Autotrader. Without cheques, these transactions would be reduced to cash, something most folk don't like carrying around or posting in large amounts.

 

[Oswyntail]

Yes, as I might have written before, I administer a sports club that runs tournaments, courses and membership. Online entry is perfectly feasible, but the alternative of cash (which would have to be offered) would probably lead to more "no shows" (unless we insisted that cash was sent with entries/applications, which is risky).

 

[gordonthemoron]

it is of no consequence to me as I don't use cheques at all

wouldn't be surprised if banks start charging more for the use of cheques

 

[trentside]

The only reason I still use cheques are to put in cards, or pay people I know sums of over £80 - above that amount and I don't feel comfortable carrying the cash. Even before their withdrawal from retail, I preferred using my debit card so I could keep a proper track of my spending.

It's all very well suggesting online banking, but there are still plenty of people not on the internet. In fact, I find online banking to be a bit of a hassle. The system my bank uses is temperamental, and while I understand the many levels of security are necessary - it's still easier to write out a cheque to make a payment.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I use cheques quite a bit so yes, relieved.

 

[SS4]

As long as I'm not obliged to subsidise this outdated method of payment I couldn't really care less.

I've never used a cheque and probably never will. Online transfers are easy and instantaneous, if I owe someone £100 then I can transfer it to them and it will be there the same day or, if it's late, the next working day. Thus doing it today would make it arrive tomorrow. A cheque, paid in tomorrow (too late to get to the bank now!) would take five working days - making it next Wednesday.

 

[LE Greys]

Me, certainly. I use cheques a lot, because I don't trust any system that uses a payment card not to be infiltrated. I scarcely ever buy anything on-line, because I never type anything over the internet that I would not be afraid to pin to my front door. Cheques are a lot safer for that very reason, provided they are transported securely (I think Royal Mail is more secure than internet encryption).

Anything else, I just pay cash. It is better to be robbed of cash, because you only lose the money you are carrying, than to have your card details stolen and lose everything in your bank account. He who steals my purse steals trash, as someone once said.

 

[SS4]

Me, certainly. I use cheques a lot, because I don't trust any system that uses a payment card not to be infiltrated. I scarcely ever buy anything on-line, because I never type anything over the internet that I would not be afraid to pin to my front door. Cheques are a lot safer for that very reason, provided they are transported securely (I think Royal Mail is more secure than internet encryption).

The maths suggest otherwise - the chance of breaking 128 bit encryption is 1 in 3.403 × 10^38. For comparison the age of universe is roughly 1.4 x 10^10 years.

256 bit encryption (fast becoming the standard) is 1 in 1.158 x 10^77.

As long as one isn't an idiot and makes the password incredibly easy to guess (the real-life analogy is leaving your keys in the car overnight) shopping online is very secure.

 

[Oswyntail]

The maths suggest otherwise - the chance of breaking 128 bit encryption is 1 in 3.403 × 10^38. For comparison the age of universe is roughly 1.4 x 10^10 years.

256 bit encryption (fast becoming the standard) is 1 in 1.158 x 10^77.

As long as one isn't an idiot and makes the password incredibly easy to guess (the real-life analogy is leaving your keys in the car overnight) shopping online is very secure.

In theory. But writing as one who a) changes his "strong" password and b) has recently had rogue shopping done on his behalf at Asos I suspect the theoretical statistics are not accurate in the real world.

 

[SteveP29]

It is better to be robbed of cash, because you only lose the money you are carrying, than to have your card details stolen and lose everything in your bank account. He who steals my purse steals trash, as someone once said.

Don't banks track spending habits on cards these days?
People I know who have had cards stolen, even some that haven't have had calls from their card issuer to question a transaction they think is dodgy.

I know it's a rigmarole to cancel cards etc, but providing you do it immediately that you realise the card(s) have been stolen, your losses can be quite minimal

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Both my wife and I use cheques for presents in birthday cards and other things such as sending one-off items to very small charities.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Don't banks track spending habits on cards these days?....

Bank people aren't always so clever. My brother had a call at home (in Cambridgeshire) asking if he'd used his card to withdraw cash in Devon earlier in the day.:roll:

 

[SS4]

Bank people aren't always so clever. My brother had a call at home (in Cambridgeshire) asking if he'd used his card to withdraw cash in Devon earlier in the day.:roll:

Sounds like one of those they have to ask to be honest. Everyone knows the answer but the question much be asked to cover everyone's arse.

I did once get a call of the bank explaining to me that they'd suspended my account due to an abnormally large number of online transactions. Shamefully for me they were all legitimate and made my myself

 

[Smethwickian]

I've always been uneasy about giving debit card details online, as it's tantamount to inviting the company (or an individual employee) with customer-not-present authorisation to help themselves to your bank account at any time. I prefer it if it goes through an extra layer of security such as the Verififed by Visa thing which most train companies use.

I have had to follow up unauthorised transactions in the past on one particular bank's card but thankfully a single complaint explaining the circumstances (which Obviously I'm not going into here) led to an immediate reimbursement. Other banks, or other circumstances, might not lead to such a satisfactory ending.

I know that much of my bank account info is also printed on cheques, but to my mind a cheque is an unequivocal signed and dated instruction to make a single payment on a single occasion to a clearly named account only. The cheque is retained by banks and can be examined in the event of any query. How does one go about tracing the online ordering equivalent?

 

[LE Greys]

I've always been uneasy about giving debit card details online, as it's tantamount to inviting the company (or an individual employee) with customer-not-present authorisation to help themselves to your bank account at any time. I prefer it if it goes through an extra layer of security such as the Verififed by Visa thing which most train companies use.

I have had to follow up unauthorised transactions in the past on one particular bank's card but thankfully a single complaint explaining the circumstances (which Obviously I'm not going into here) led to an immediate reimbursement. Other banks, or other circumstances, might not lead to such a satisfactory ending.

I know that much of my bank account info is also printed on cheques, but to my mind a cheque is an unequivocal signed and dated instruction to make a single payment on a single occasion to a clearly named account only. The cheque is retained by banks and can be examined in the event of any query. How does one go about tracing the online ordering equivalent?

Exactly.

 

[Welshman]

It's good news that cheques are to be reprieved, but will the banks now reintroduce cheque guarantee cards?

Credit/debit cards are not always as secure as the banks would like us to believe. Having said that, I was grateful to my bank ringing me up one day to ask if I'd really bought a mobile phone and a camera in shops in Tonbridge and Ashford the day before, when I'd been home in Leicestershire all the time. Someone was on the ball.

 

[SS4]

The insecurities with credit and debit cards are largely derived from the user not the cards themselves - has anyone actually reported a dodgy looking cash machine? For example picking an easy PIN to guess, using a compromised cash machine, not shielding your PIN, keeping your details together etc...

Credit cards are also at an advantage for purchases between £100 and £30,000 because you can get your money back off the bank if the company folds/turns out to be fraudulent. You can't do the same with a cashed cheque.

Mostly though I don't like cheques because they're slow. Five working days to clear - hope you don't need that money this week. Everyone is talking about sending cheques but what if you were on the receiving end, especially a personal cheque. Would you be happy waiting so long to get your hands on your own money?

 

[SteveP29]

Bank people aren't always so clever. My brother had a call at home (in Cambridgeshire) asking if he'd used his card to withdraw cash in Devon earlier in the day.:roll:

But that was what I was meaning by my post, the banks will know that you spend money on your card in a certain geographical area for the most part. A transaction away from that area will be noticed by the bank, which is why they ontacted your brother to verify that he actually made that transaction (as banks can't tell when you're away on business or on holiday (YET!!!))

 

[Zoe]

It's good news that cheques are to be reprieved, but will the banks now reintroduce cheque guarantee cards?

I doubt it. A £50 guarantee is very little benefit when you could easily just pay with cash.

 

[ainsworth74]

I doubt it. A £50 guarantee is very little benefit when you could easily just pay with cash.

The guarantee was for £100.

 

[Zoe]

The guarantee was for £100.

Some cards are only for £50 but even £100 the cash alternative works well.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

But that was what I was meaning by my post, the banks will know that you spend money on your card in a certain geographical area for the most part. A transaction away from that area will be noticed by the bank, which is why they ontacted your brother to verify that he actually made that transaction (as banks can't tell when you're away on business or on holiday (YET!!!))

But they phoned him at home, on his landline, for a transaction hundreds of miles away! I'm not sure if he used his card the previous day or the same day so I can't say for definite, and I get the 'just checking' thing to an extent, but there comes a point when it just isn't sensible to my mind.

 

[krus_aragon]

But they phoned him at home, on his landline, for a transaction hundreds of miles away!

And if he answered, then it was probably a suspect transaction!

 

[TackerUK]

I dont even have a bank account

 

[MrC]

But they phoned him at home, on his landline, for a transaction hundreds of miles away! I'm not sure if he used his card the previous day or the same day so I can't say for definite, and I get the 'just checking' thing to an extent, but there comes a point when it just isn't sensible to my mind.

Another reason could be to check that the card holder hasn't lent their card to someone else.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Another reason could be to check that the card holder hasn't lent their card to someone else.

That is one of the difficulties with Payment Cards / Credit Cards etc. Some users do pass them to other family members, their carers, partners, workmates etc., and will not be in proper control of their accounts (and may be the unwitting victim of petty thefts).

I still find a use for cheques and for the books of used cheque stubs as a quick reference through historical payments - I've got no worries about them becoming phased out at some point, but I believe we still need a more suitable alternative, particularly for organisations which must be very accountable and transparent with how they use their funds and those (such as charities) who need every possible method of raising income (and who may simply loose some of their revenue if cheques were not an available method of giving).

 

[MrC]

That is one of the difficulties with Payment Cards / Credit Cards etc. Some users do pass them to other family members, their carers, partners, workmates etc., and will not be in proper control of their accounts (and may be the unwitting victim of petty thefts).

Which also applies just as much to cheques to be honest. Banks don't typically check signatures on low value cheques and, even if the signature is the correct one, its not unusual for the rest of the writing on the cheque to be written out by different people. And if anyone thinks that signatures are a good way to validate who someone is then think again. Cheque fraud was a huge problem.

....but I believe we still need a more suitable alternative,....

That's the real issue. If you're net connected then there's no real problem as there are several ways to carry out funds transfer - direct bank transfer, PayPal, etc. In future NFC cards and devices may possibly perform a useful function for low value and/or ad-hoc payments. For those who can't or won't get net access then telephone banking still serves a purpose and you can make charity contributions by ringing up or writing in with a card number. However the market etc will concentrate on services for the vast majority and there's a danger that the remaining few will have to put up with not being catered for.

 

[newbie babs]

I am pleased they are staying, some things are helpful and should not be got rid of, (help my students anyway)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When I first posted this thread, I was unsure what reaction this might have brought from forum members.

It seems that strongly differing views are held on the matter, which gives an insight into how much matters have changed in the banking industry over the last 20 years to the extent that cheques were being considered for withdrawal.