Cardiff Taunton stock

[BRM]

What can I look forward to on the GWR stopper. Will be on the
2C73 1100 Cardiff Central to Taunton on Saturday 1 September.
Hoping it won't be a Pacer.

 

[PHILIPE]

What can I look forward to on the GWR stopper. Will be on the
2C73 1100 Cardiff Central to Taunton on Saturday 1 September.
Hoping it won't be a Pacer.

Should be a 166 but as always subject to alteration on the day. You won't get a Pacer, they haven't worked them for years.

 

[mic505]

Or a "Castle Class 255" 2+4 HST from late 2019, hopefully.

 

[ATW158Xpress]

2+4 HST stop signs have been put up at Patchway and Filton Abbey Wood stations.

 

[BRM]

150002 turned up. All 3 coaches full to Bristol TM. Lots of seats after. All windows open so a lot of draft. Takes me back 30 years.

 

[ValleyLines142]

150002 turned up. All 3 coaches full to Bristol TM. Lots of seats after. All windows open so a lot of draft. Takes me back 30 years.

I had 150002 on the 0800 Cardiff to Paignton on Thursday. Seating layout is totally inadequate for such a journey. A service between two major cities (one of which being one of the four capitals of the UK) should at least have 2+2 tables.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I had 150002 on the 0800 Cardiff to Paignton on Thursday. Seating layout is totally inadequate for such a journey. A service between two major cities (one of which being one of the four capitals of the UK) should at least have 2+2 tables.

And we'll trot out the would you rather it was cancelled response.....because that's ultimately the choice

 

[Parallel]

I had 150002 on the 0800 Cardiff to Paignton on Thursday. Seating layout is totally inadequate for such a journey. A service between two major cities (one of which being one of the four capitals of the UK) should at least have 2+2 tables.

At least it was three coaches. One of the 150/1 twins was operating alone between Cardiff and Portsmouth a week or so ago!

 

[ValleyLines142]

And we'll trot out the would you rather it was cancelled response.....because that's ultimately the choice

Meh..

 

[Envoy]

So, why are HST’s being sent out of commission? Even if they can’t do the modifications straight away, surely they could have been put into service on the Cardiff to south-west routes?

 

[cactustwirly]

So, why are HST’s being sent out of commission? Even if they can’t do the modifications straight away, surely they could have been put into service on the Cardiff to south-west routes?

That's the plan anyway!
The ones currently going off-lease are for ScotRail.
Once the GWR ones have been freed up then they'll go onto Cardiff-Taunton and beyond services

 

[221129]

So, why are HST’s being sent out of commission? Even if they can’t do the modifications straight away, surely they could have been put into service on the Cardiff to south-west routes?

Because they are being sent to Scotland.

 

[Envoy]

Because they are being sent to Scotland.

Well, I thought that I read somewhere that Scotland has had their allocation and that further ones were going into storage.

 

[221129]

Well, I thought that I read somewhere that Scotland has had their allocation and that further ones were going into storage.

Not the case.

 

[CC 72100]

At least it was three coaches. One of the 150/1 twins was operating alone between Cardiff and Portsmouth a week or so ago!

Aye between Bristol and Cardiff it's the amount of coaches, not the seating layout within them, that is the most important.

And as for a route between major cities having 2+2 seating - well there's plenty of other cases this isn't the case.. this route is not a special case and the journey time is only around 50 minutes or so.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Aye between Bristol and Cardiff it's the amount of coaches, not the seating layout within them, that is the most important.

And as for a route between major cities having 2+2 seating - well there's plenty of other cases this isn't the case.. this route is not a special case and the journey time is only around 50 minutes or so.

Well believe me it was uncomfortable. I was sat by the window and had to face almost sideways into the window. The chap in the middle seat was far from large either and he was also struggling for room. Also nobody can get down the aisles, which surely must be a DDA breach?

If the seats were wide enough, which they aren't due to 3+2 layout, then it would be fine. Also, it's a heavy commuter route. There should at least be some tables somewhere.

 

[CC 72100]

Well believe me it was uncomfortable. I was sat by the window and had to face almost sideways into the window. The chap in the middle seat was far from large either and he was also struggling for room. Also nobody can get down the aisles, which surely must be a DDA breach?

If the seats were wide enough, which they aren't due to 3+2 layout, then it would be fine. Also, it's a heavy commuter route. There should at least be some tables somewhere.

Nobody can get down the aisles? Come on, be reasonable. I'm not saying is comfortable or ideal but people certainly can get down the aisles, and probably develop the ability to do so if they previously couldn't when it's their train home and need to squeeze on!

To me the bit I've put in bold is a complete contradiction. Commuters that work on the train are more likely to do so on a phone or tablet on their way in as opposed to banking on there being tables available to whack open the laptop and prepare the 9am presentation. How must all those commuters cope on 455s and 450s on South West with no tables and 2+3 seating?

It's a route between two large urban centres, and in this case overall capacity wins out as the most important.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Nobody can get down the aisles? Come on, be reasonable. I'm not saying is comfortable or ideal but people certainly can get down the aisles, and probably develop the ability to do so if they previously couldn't when it's their train home and need to squeeze on!

To me the bit I've put in bold is a complete contradiction. Commuters that work on the train are more likely to do so on a phone or tablet on their way in as opposed to banking on there being tables available to whack open the laptop and prepare the 9am presentation. How must all those commuters cope on 455s and 450s on South West with no tables and 2+3 seating?

It's a route between two large urban centres, and in this case overall capacity wins out as the most important.

The 455s are suburban. Same with the majority of the 450s. So incomparable.

And a lady wanted to get down the aisle but couldn't, so had to get off and walk to the next door along the platform.

 

[CC 72100]

The 455s are suburban. Same with the majority of the 450s. So incomparable.

And a lady wanted to get down the aisle but couldn't, so had to get off and walk to the next door along the platform.

Well you said about facilities for commuters, so I used 2 examples of stock that are heavily used by commuters....

 

[ValleyLines142]

Well you said about facilities for commuters, so I used 2 examples of stock that are heavily used by commuters....

I was referring more to the distance if anything. The sphere of influence is different.

 

[CC 72100]

I was referring more to the distance if anything. The sphere of influence is different.

You've lost me on that - although several journeys on the Southern WCML on 3+2 units could also last around 45 minutes, as per my other examples.

The fact is that Cardiff - Taunton is a local service. I'm no lover of 3+2 seating but considering the amount of trains and other routes, they're probably the most suitable place for them.

 

[ValleyLines142]

You've lost me on that - although several journeys on the Southern WCML on 3+2 units could also last around 45 minutes, as per my other examples.

The fact is that Cardiff - Taunton is a local service. I'm no lover of 3+2 seating but considering the amount of trains and other routes, they're probably the most suitable place for them.

As I said, those are local suburban services.

Imagine a 150 or a 323 on a London to Birmingham service.

And no, the most suitable place for those two units is on the Avonmouth Line.

 

[tiptoptaff]

As I said, those are local suburban services.

Imagine a 150 or a 323 on a London to Birmingham service.

And no, the most suitable place for those two units is on the Avonmouth Line.

I don't think you seem to understand the purpose of the CDF-TAU route. It is a suburban commuter service, albeit stretched out a bit.

 

[CC 72100]

As I said, those are local suburban services.

Imagine a 150 or a 323 on a London to Birmingham service.

And no, the most suitable place for those two units is on the Avonmouth Line.

London to Birmingham would take a great deal longer than 45-50 minutes, so not comparable at all.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I don't think you seem to understand the purpose of the CDF-TAU route. It is a suburban commuter service, albeit stretched out a bit.

The Cardiff to Bristol section not so much.

London to Birmingham would take a great deal longer than 45-50 minutes, so not comparable at all.

Well it's only 1 hour 20 at the moment.

It's clear we obviously have differing views, but I personally don't think a 150 with incredibly narrow 3+2 seating shouldn't be used between two major cities. In fairness to SWR examples they are a little wider.

Lines such as the Avonmouth Line and local services to Weston-super-Mare and Trowbridge are ideal for those units, not a 3 and a half hour journey. It's great that GWR have accommodated the coach numbers rather than a short-formed set, but still.

I have no further comments.

 

[CC 72100]

Well it's only 1 hour 20 at the moment.

It's clear we obviously have differing views, but I personally don't think a 150 with incredibly narrow 3+2 seating shouldn't be used between two major cities. In fairness to SWR examples they are a little wider.

Lines such as the Avonmouth Line and local services to Weston-super-Mare and Trowbridge are ideal for those units, not a 3 and a half hour journey. It's great that GWR have accommodated the coach numbers rather than a short-formed set, but still.

I have no further comments.

I was going for how long it would take if on a 150 or 323 unit, as that was what you suggested.

CDF-TAU is under 2 hours end to end, and anyone wishing for a faster and more comfortable journey can always take a London service to Bristol Parkway and a CrossCountry service down from there.

We'll have to agree to disagree then!

 

[ValleyLines142]

I was going for how long it would take if on a 150 or 323 unit, as that was what you suggested.

CDF-TAU is under 2 hours end to end, and anyone wishing for a faster and more comfortable journey can always take a London service to Bristol Parkway and a CrossCountry service down from there.

We'll have to agree to disagree then!

Which is what I normally do. When I went to Paignton in March there were cheap Advances for the 8am from Cardiff, and I can see why! I paid £6 more and went First Class with XC down from Parkway.

 

[ashworth]

I had 150002 on the 0800 Cardiff to Paignton on Thursday. Seating layout is totally inadequate for such a journey. A service between two major cities (one of which being one of the four capitals of the UK) should at least have 2+2 tables.

I agree perhaps inadequate but as others have said better than cancellation.
Are the Exeter to Penzance trains still 150’s? I’m going to be down in Devon and Cornwall in a couple of weeks. I did Penzance to Exeter on one of these a couple of years ago. It was very uncomfortable and overcrowded for a journey of almost 3 hours. There wasn’t much choice for for a late afternoon departure from Penzance.
Last week I was in Great Malvern and noticed that a Weymouth train was formed of a 2 carriage 150. Is that still normal for a journey of that length?

 

[ValleyLines142]

I agree perhaps inadequate but as others have said better than cancellation.
Are the Exeter to Penzance trains still 150’s? I’m going to be down in Devon and Cornwall in a couple of weeks. I did Penzance to Exeter on one of these a couple of years ago. It was very uncomfortable and overcrowded for a journey of almost 3 hours. There wasn’t much choice for for a late afternoon departure from Penzance.
Last week I was in Great Malvern and noticed that a Weymouth train was formed of a 2 carriage 150. Is that still normal for a journey of that length?

The following services are booked for mini HSTs

2E12 0600 Penzance to Exeter
2C45 0926 Exeter to Penzance
2P85 1257 Penzance to Newton Abbot
2P49 1555 Newton Abbot to Plymouth
2C51 1755 Plymouth to Penzance

As for the Great Malvern unit, that was unlucky for a 150. The majority of services are now 166s with the exception of the daily Brighton service which should be a 158.

 

[PHILIPE]

Many people think that they are long journeys to be worked by 150s or whatever, but although they are long journeys so far as the traction is concerned but not so far as passengers are concerned. They are actually a combination several local services lumped together and which reduce the resources and track occupation that would be required. If we take the Great Malvern to Weymouth, as has been mentioned, if it ran only from Great Malvern to Bristol TM you would have the unit occupying a platform or having to make a shunt until it's next working and having to provide another unit to work forward to Weymouth. Over the day more units would be required due to others standing idle. How many passengers travel from Great Malvern to Weymouth and very often there are far quicker means of travelling by using recognised Inter City services even though changes may be required. They are similar to a bus service where people jump on and off along the route.
Some years ago, ATW services ran between Cardiff (only) and Manchester and West Wales ran to Cardiff only so from that the through services from Milford Haven to Manchester were born. This involved saving a unit and avoided units shunting across the throat at the West End of Cardiff Central to and from Canton Depot which had previously affected regulation and a potential for causing delay.