Card processing discussion

[Morden Via CHX]

I always thought you could store the CVV number if I am honest. I used to have an account with a bookmaker who offered credit accounts and if I owed them then they just took the money at the end of the week or month or whatever, in fact they asked for the number when I opened the account.

 

[WillPS]

Correct, but you said it was common practice to ask for ID, and Sacro correctly pointed out that merchants are not supposed to do this; they are meant to match the signature on the slip to that on the card.

This is interesting. Back when I worked in a toy shop, and after the Chip & Pin day, an American customer gave me a card which they signed as "~~~~~~CHECK ID~~~~~~~". The signature she gave me did not match the pattern and I ended up doing the normal thing and checking some other cards she had with a name that matched on my manager's advice. Nice to know I was right in thinking I should have aborted the transaction.

She also said ''in the States'' where it is common. My most recent visit to California and Nevada had me and my family asked for photo ID pretty much every transaction above $10 or so. I noticed that many cards issued by US banks have a photo of the holder on the back which negated this requirement, but for those that didn't, even locals showed ID (except they never seemed to be asked, always handing over their ID at the same time, presumably because it's so common to be asked).

Oddly enough, they hardly ever checked the signature. Many shops also have electronic signing pads. I don't remember being asked for ID so often in New York.

Some RBS cards had a photo printed on the back - pretty sure these were pre-chip ones.

 

[island]

I always thought you could store the CVV number if I am honest. I used to have an account with a bookmaker who offered credit accounts and if I owed them then they just took the money at the end of the week or month or whatever, in fact they asked for the number when I opened the account.

It is very strictly prohibited to store CVVs.

This is interesting. Back when I worked in a toy shop, and after the Chip & Pin day, an American customer gave me a card which they signed as "~~~~~~CHECK ID~~~~~~~". The signature she gave me did not match the pattern and I ended up doing the normal thing and checking some other cards she had with a name that matched on my manager's advice. Nice to know I was right in thinking I should have aborted the transaction.

Credit cards are not valid unless signed, so in this scenario you are supposed to ask for government-issued photo ID with a signature (one of the exceptional situations where it is allowed), request the customer to sign the card (somehow), and compare the signature on the card with that on the ID and that on the receipt. If they match and the ID is a good match too, you can accept the transaction. Otherwise you need to make a code 10 call.

 

[reb0118]

Just found this on the Arriva Trains Wales site:-

Chip’n’Pin Card Puchases

Thank you for visiting the Arriva Trains Wales website in connection with the problems that you have experienced making payment for your tickets using your debit card on board the train. Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience that you have been caused and we are very sorry that you have been prompted to contact us regarding this matter.

We are aware that there are certain types of debit card that will be declined for payment on-train as the issuer require immediate authorisation for the transaction to be processed. This is not possible with the hand held machines used by Conductors and Revenue staff as they are not permanently online with the banking system. These cards are typically the former Solo and Visa Electron cards that have now been re-branded to Visa debit cards. These cards have limited authorisation capabilities to other debit cards and this can be identified by the omission of a cheque guarantee logo. In addition there are other cards in circulation where the issuer will only permit a maximum of 3 off-line transactions in a row before the card must be used online. In both these circumstances the transaction will be declined even though there are funds in the account.

From the information that you have provided it would appear that you have one of the above cards. Other customers have had similar problems to you and it would therefore appear that the card issuers do not provide specific details to customers regarding the limitations of their card. We have produced literature for customers when their bank cards are declined to explain the reason for this and all Conductors will be suitably briefed. It may therefore be worth making enquiries with your card issuer whether there are any limitations with your card’s authorisation capabilities.

I trust the above fully addresses the circumstances that have prompted you to contact us, and I apologise once again for the inconvenience that you have been caused. If you have any further concerns regarding this matter please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Relations team on 0845 606 1660 or email: customer.services@arrivatrainswales.co.uk.

 

[maniacmartin]

The cheque guarantee logo thing is sadly becoming a thing of the past, now that cheques are being phased out. I didn't think new cards got this logo, regardless of type. Certainly my latest offline debit card doesn't

 

[island]

Correct. No new cards have been issued with the logo since (from memory) 2011 and the logo on those still in circulation is nothing more than a decoration.

 

[maniacmartin]

Here's a picture of a self-service kiosk in an AT&T phone shop in the USA, where you can add credit to your PAYG balance amongst other things. You have to swipe your card and then complete this screen. Aaaarg!

 

[island]

That's against card scheme rules.

In the US they often ask for ZIP codes at self-service terminals (because they can't verify signatures and the cards are not PIN-enabled). These can be checked through the address verification service, but are unfriendly to foreign cards. It's not impossible though — if you ever run across one, entering the digits only from your postcode, with zeros at the front to bring it up to five digits, should work.

 

[maniacmartin]

Zeros at the front? I've been told by other people to pad with zeros at the end.

On the New York subway, the staff told me to enter 99999 as the zip, which worked for my card on their machines.

Is there any point in reporting the CVV thing? If so, who to? My bank, VISA Europe, VISA USA?

 

[island]

Zeros at the front? I've been told by other people to pad with zeros at the end.

On the New York subway, the staff told me to enter 99999 as the zip, which worked for my card on their machines.

Is there any point in reporting the CVV thing? If so, who to? My bank, VISA Europe, VISA USA?

In theory it would be VISA USA. Finding someone who cares and is empowered to deal with it might be difficult.

 

[maniacmartin]

Thank you for your message.

We have forwarded your inquiry to the EU regional office for further assistance. For future queries that address is: enquiries.europe@visa.com.

Thank you for contacting Visa Europe.

Please be informed that you have a contract with your card-issuing bank and not Visa. Our Member financial institutions issue cards and are responsible for all account management.

For questions about merchant acceptance practices please contact your card-issuing bank. You can contact them using the address or telephone number on your Visa statement or on the back of your card. Your card-issuing bank has access to Visa rules and regulations and their own rules governing merchant acceptance practices and can make them available to you upon request.

Thank you for writing,
Consumer Support │Visa Europe │www.visaeurope.com
[...]
Please note that all consumer enquiries are handled by our Consumer Queries Team based in the United States of America.

You are correct island, they don't care about providing a co-ordinated message on CVV codes. This is the company that invented VbyV, the biggest security theatre around, so I'm not surprised.

 

[island]

Don't get me started on 3D Secure (generic name for Verified by Visa, MasterCard SecureCode, and Amex Safekey).

I got a chip & PIN widget in the post on Tuesday