Can a Sprinter or Super-Sprinter Operate on One Engine?

[M&NEJ]

I encountered an interesting contradiction this week with "sprinter" units being cancelled or continuing to operate, when only one of the two engines was running. Does anyone know "chapter and verse" on what rules or considerations apply here?

On Saturday I tried to take my son from Lancaster to Kents Bank for a walk back to Grange. Having boarded a class 156 (2C57, 13:01 Lancaster - Carlisle) with passengers assembled and engine(s) running we were dismayed to hear the driver shut the unit down. For 30 minutes there were attempts to start, then re-set a computer and ultimately get advice from "control", with the conclusion that "we aren't allowed to proceed with only one engine running". The service was cancelled and we all had to de-train for the following, 14:02 service.

Two days later I was on a class 158 (2H89, 10:58 Carlisle - Leeds), in my case as far as Kirkby Stephen. I thought acceleration was poor on the 1:132 slopes away from Carlisle, and progress was slow on the "drag" from Ormside viaduct towards Aisgill at 1:100. It transpired this unit also had only one engine running; but contrary to Saturday's experience it was very definitely still in service!

Is it an arbitrary judgement; or a difference between classes 156 and 158; or the severity of the gradients (1:65/70 for a few miles on Lindal bank versus many miles at 1:100 to Aisgill)? Thank you for any insights on offer!

 

[a_c_skinner]

I got to Crewe from Cardiff very late on a 158 with only one of two engines running. It was announced by the train crew, as was the termination short at Crewe. It was a long time ago so things may have changed.

 

[hexagon789]

They were designed to be able to run on one engine, crush load testing was done with one engine isolated on both 150s and 156s, it's mentioned in magazines of the time.

I would imagine in such condition 75mph running isn't possible, asides from the halved acceleration rate - but presumably except where severe gradients preclude it single engine working to the next suitable location to detrain passengers is permitted.

I understand 313/314/315s were also designed to be able to work on one motor car crush loaded if necessary, again for recovery purposes rather than in normal service.

 

[skyhigh]

It very much depends on the circumstances. 15x have one compressor per vehicle, so two on a 2 coach train. If one engine is dead you only have one compressor working and if that is weak or fails then you're stuck. In addition, 15x don't really do 'cross feeding' between vehicles, so if you have an engine out on a vehicle you also have no alternator working and eventually the batteries will go flat. How long that takes depends on the condition of the batteries. That means that the end lighting will go out - if that is the leading end and only a bardic lamp is available (as opposed to a portable headlight) the unit is limited to a maximum speed of 20mph. However, there is no limitation if the vehicle without power is on the rear and a bardic is displaying a red light. It also depends why the engine is out - if it's lack of fuel, generally both vehicles are fuelled at the same time so if one engine has run out you can be pretty sure the other isn't that far behind!

So if the rear engine stops during a journey and the unit is heading in the general direction of a maintenance depot it's likely you'll be allowed to continue. If it's the front and you're heading away from a depot (or somewhere the fault can be boxed in) it's more likely you'll be terminated and sent back. It's probably unlikely that you'd allow a 2 car unit to start a new journey with one engine already out - which is why I'd guess 2C57 was cancelled...

Two days later I was on a class 158 (2H89, 10:58 Carlisle - Leeds), in my case as far as Kirkby Stephen. I thought acceleration was poor on the 1:132 slopes away from Carlisle, and progress was slow on the "drag" from Ormside viaduct towards Aisgill at 1:100. It transpired this unit also had only one engine running; but contrary to Saturday's experience it was very definitely still in service!

...whereas in contrast it looks to me like that unit lost an engine while on a journey (particularly heading towards Leeds and Neville Hill depot) so they allowed it to continue in service.

 

[tiptoptaff]

15x are fitted with remote supply, so if one engine is out you use the other for electrical power.

They can and do run on one engine. But they'll lose time heavily and will be swapped out at the earliest convenience.

 

[Irascible]

I remember crawling up a Devon bank ( Plymouth to Exeter direction ) in a 158 on one engine at some point - I'm not sure if that's per regulations ( was pre-privatisation I think, an awful long time ago either way ), but needless to say it was a *little* bit late.

 

[skyhigh]

15x are fitted with remote supply, so if one engine is out you use the other for electrical power.

Remote supply is a bit of an odd one as far as our TOC is concerned. I've just reread my traction manual and it definitely says that if an engine shuts down end lighting will be lost (along with anything connected to the aux battery when the voltage drops too low). Remote supply is mentioned as only affecting any systems connected to the starter battery. The official line from trainers and driver managers is that if an engine is out, you will lose end lighting on the affected vehicle and then be subject to the speed restrictions of a bardic etc.

Going off topic a little, but I'd be genuinely interested to know what you're told relating to remote supply. I know we did try isolating the aux batts on a 150 vehicle and the end lighting remained on (which suggests the other vehicle was supplying a feed and the reality is a bit more complex then we're taught)

 

[L401CJF]

I caught a 150 between Neston and Bidston a few years ago running on 1 engine, quite late, but it turned around at Bidston and continued in service back to Wrexham before being axed so is definitely possible

 

[dosxuk]

Was recently on a 4-car EMR 158/156 combo. The front car of the 158 was leading with no engine and no saloon lighting. Normally it would have continued to Norwich after the split at Nottingham, but the 156 was sent on instead.

We certainly weren't limited to 20mph, so I just assumed there was power cross fed to supply the cab and front lighting?

 

[norbitonflyer]

My very first ride on a 150, to Matlock was very quiet. I discovered afterwards that the engine on the leading car of 150001 wasn't working.

Of course, the unit still had two working engines, as the prototype units were three car sets.

Some SuperSprinters routinely operated on one engine, but some friends of mine were stuck for over an hour outside Peterborough when one such unit had an engine failure. EMR no longer operates class 153s

 

[WarrenTManager]

Most operators will have a DOTE 'defective on train equipment' procedure and that will map out what to do for all sorts of failures on their trains.

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/files/Publications/New-Folder/Section12ManagingtheImpactofFleetIncidentsontheRailway.pdf

 

[Taunton]

I recall a couple of heritage 2-car dmus, two engines under the motor car but none for the driving trailer, where one engine was out, and the whole train thus ran on one 150hp engine. Slow but not impossible.

Another had a defective starter, and the engine stopped at each station. Would then start slowly on one engine, and at about 10mph bump-start the other into life. Driver treated this with aplomb, had presumably done it before.

 

[hexagon789]

I recall a couple of heritage 2-car dmus, two engines under the motor car but none for the driving trailer, where one engine was out, and the whole train thus ran on one 150hp engine. Slow but not impossible.

I think I've mentioned this in another thread, but in the immediate aftermath of the Ayr Depot Fire the Scottish Region was having to put together whatever was working to make up 3-car DMU formations. One set was made up with the sole ScR Driving Trailer and was formed DMBS-TS-DTS.

The set was nominally for peak strengthening to work as part of a 6-car set because of only having one power car, but soon an instruction went out that it could be used on Glasgow-Barrhead/EK workings on its own if necessary.

I hate to think what performance would be like of one of its two engines had failed!

 

[DJ_K666]

I've been on a 158 a couple of times where the engine on thd rear coach stopped. Three attempts to start it from the exterior start button led to it running a couple of seconds and then stalling. This occurred at Fareham so it was allowed to continue to Portsmouth where we could catch a Brighton train onwards. I'm guessing it would have been allowed dud to Fratton depot being not too far away. I've seen it happen on the way into Brighton too, on my way to school when i was a kid. Its a bit strange being in the rear coach and no engine noise, essentially being 'hauled' stock for an hour or so. Lovely and quiet though .

 

[supervc-10]

I've been on an SWT 159 with an engine out. This was part of at least a 6-car consist, so it wasn't particularly bad time wise. The saloon lights were off, AC off, windows open, quiet on a nice warm summer's day. It was a lovely ride down to Salisbury!

I wonder if one of the reasons OP's service was cancelled was that it was going to start impacting on the following service?

 

[Taunton]

I've been on a 158 a couple of times where the engine on thd rear coach stopped. Three attempts to start it from the exterior start button led to it running a couple of seconds and then stalling.

Sounds like it was out of fuel.

 

[AM9]

A single working engine would be a no no in poor railhead conditions, only two axles being powered would not only limit acceleration but also halve adhesive weight. OT, but a DEMU might be better off because although acceleration would be poor, supplying what power there was to all motored axles would give the same adhesion as a fully operational unit.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

A single working engine would be a no no in poor railhead conditions, only two axles being powered would not only limit acceleration but also halve adhesive weight. OT, but a DEMU might be better off because although acceleration would be poor, supplying what power there was to all motored axles would give the same adhesion as a fully operational unit.

While single unit workings are somewhat less common nowadays making such a situation much less likely I have certainly experienced this in the past. Worst case was the first Wigan-Liverpool on an Autumn Sunday morning. One engine stalled some time after leaving Wigan and though it would restart at stations it shut down again almost immediately on setting off. Queue a 20 minute grind up the bank from Thatto Heath with the driver eventually realising progress on contaminated railheads was only possible by crawling along in notch one. It's baffling why RHTTs often don't run Saturday night/Sunday morning.

 

[D6975]

I had a 150/2 on one engine on the Severn Beach line. It didn't fail en route, it was dispatched from Temple Meads on one engine. It had been taken off a Gloucester diagram and the beach unit was sent to Gloucester.

 

[sbrignall72]

I was on a class 155 on the Hull to York route where the driver switched the lights off in both units in order to limp in to York about 12 late.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Remote supply is a bit of an odd one as far as our TOC is concerned. I've just reread my traction manual and it definitely says that if an engine shuts down end lighting will be lost (along with anything connected to the aux battery when the voltage drops too low). Remote supply is mentioned as only affecting any systems connected to the starter battery. The official line from trainers and driver managers is that if an engine is out, you will lose end lighting on the affected vehicle and then be subject to the speed restrictions of a bardic etc.

Going off topic a little, but I'd be genuinely interested to know what you're told relating to remote supply. I know we did try isolating the aux batts on a 150 vehicle and the end lighting remained on (which suggests the other vehicle was supplying a feed and the reality is a bit more complex then we're taught)

Remote Supply on our 15x units definitely provides end lights, as well as instrument lights, GSM-R etc. Can't tell you what much else it does.

 

[Anvil1984]

Remote Supply on our 15x units definitely provides end lights, as well as instrument lights, GSM-R etc. Can't tell you what much else it does.

On Northern stock I think we only have Remote Supply for those things on our 158s. Definitely not on the 156s, if front engine goes then its 20mph with loss of headlights

 

[Tomnick]

Remote supply is a bit of an odd one as far as our TOC is concerned. I've just reread my traction manual and it definitely says that if an engine shuts down end lighting will be lost (along with anything connected to the aux battery when the voltage drops too low). Remote supply is mentioned as only affecting any systems connected to the starter battery. The official line from trainers and driver managers is that if an engine is out, you will lose end lighting on the affected vehicle and then be subject to the speed restrictions of a bardic etc.

Going off topic a little, but I'd be genuinely interested to know what you're told relating to remote supply. I know we did try isolating the aux batts on a 150 vehicle and the end lighting remained on (which suggests the other vehicle was supplying a feed and the reality is a bit more complex then we're taught)

My understanding is that certain things (driving controls, for example) are cross-fed regardless, and that you have to break the seal and operate the remote supply switch for others (the headlight, for example). I'm not sure where the tail and marker lights fit in that, but I would (and have always been asked to) operate the remote supply switch anyway.

Last time I had one, Control insisted that the station fitter would come out with a portable headlamp at the station where we were to change ends, and that we'd be speed-restricted (75mph) from then on. The fitter came out, declared (in consultation with our Control) that it was totally unnecessary because the remote supply would feed it, and took his portable headlamp back again!

To answer the original question, though, a key thing that you lose with an engine out is heating, cab heating in particular. That'll play a huge part in determining whether it can go - drivers are well within their rights to refuse if they think that the cab will become uncomfortably cold as a result. I recently booked on - spare - to be asked to go and collect a unit that'd been dumped in a siding somewhere with a faulty alternator on the leading vehicle, only to then be told that "we've changed our mind, it's far too cold for that now so we'll bring it back in the daytime tomorrow instead".

 

[DJ_K666]

Sounds like it was out of fuel.

Maybe. Is there an internal fuel gauge on a 158? Fareham to Portsmouth isn't all that far though so I think that's why it was allowed to go on. Especially on such a busy route with limited opportunities to loop the train.

 

[LowLevel]

Maybe. Is there an internal fuel gauge on a 158? Fareham to Portsmouth isn't all that far though so I think that's why it was allowed to go on. Especially on such a busy route with limited opportunities to loop the train.

More often than not in my experience with 158s that behave in such a fashion a lack of oil rather than fuel is the issue.

 

[Tomnick]

Maybe. Is there an internal fuel gauge on a 158? Fareham to Portsmouth isn't all that far though so I think that's why it was allowed to go on. Especially on such a busy route with limited opportunities to loop the train.

No internal fuel gauge - it's checked on a full prep, but otherwise managed by Control based on mileage since last fuelled.

I've had plenty of engines shut down or isolated on 15x, but never because of low fuel. It does happen occasionally, but it's rare. It's far more likely to be something like low oil pressure or low coolant level, or some other fault that's meant that the engine had to be isolated (my last one was an alternator fault, possibly with the hydrostatic oil system that's driven off the engine).

 

[317666]

A single working engine would be a no no in poor railhead conditions, only two axles being powered would not only limit acceleration but also halve adhesive weight. OT, but a DEMU might be better off because although acceleration would be poor, supplying what power there was to all motored axles would give the same adhesion as a fully operational unit.

I had a 150 on the Looe branch on one engine last year. The climb from Coombe Junction to Liskeard in the rain was interesting to say the least!

 

[Adrian1980uk]

I would suggest a common sense approach would take place, if it's able to run on one engine and the as example the other engine failed at Peterborough on the Liverpool to Norwich EMR run, it would continue to Norwich but would then be taken out of service. Almost certainly would not start off from Norwich on one engine for the whole journey

 

[joncombe]

I remember years ago being on a 150 between Plymouth and Exeter and one of the two engines failed on the Devon Banks. After several attempts to get going on one engine, the train had to roll back to Totnes and another 150 was sent from Paington to couple up before the train could continue to Exeter. So I'd say how possible it is depends on how hilly the route in question is.

 

[Taunton]

A single working engine would be a no no in poor railhead conditions, only two axles being powered would not only limit acceleration but also halve adhesive weight.

A 2-car heritage dmu with one engine would only have one axle powered - the two engines each drove the nearer axle on the bogie at their end. The driving trailer obviously contributed nothing.

To answer the original question, though, a key thing that you lose with an engine out is heating, cab heating in particular.

This is where heriatge dmus were ahead, as they had separate combustion heaters with a separate fuel tank. It was realised at the start that the engine exhaust would not provide sufficient heat. Obviously an unpowered trailer always needed its own heat supply. The Railcar site has a useful description of them :

Heaters