Caledonian Sleeper

[SuspectUsual]

It certainly did when I first used the FW sleeper in 1980, (a convoluted operation involving one loco from Mossend to Cowlairs, a second down the bank into Queen Street, and a third to take it out again)
But the northbound was nevertheless there some time after the southbound had left for London.

How did the shunt work? Southbound was the ETHEL left on the back when the train went back up to Cowlairs?

 

[skyetraveller]

How did the shunt work? Southbound was the ETHEL left on the back when the train went back up to Cowlairs?

My recollection (and its a long time ago now!) is that the 37 + ETHEL that brought the train into Queen Street from Fort William stayed attached to the rear up to Cowlairs where the other end loco was detached and the 37 + ETHEL then took the train round to Mossend. The reverse applied for the northbound. The 37 and ETHEL were swapped around during the wait between southbound and northbound at Mossend.

 

[norbitonflyer]

How did the shunt work? Southbound was the ETHEL left on the back when the train went back up to Cowlairs?

No ETHEL in 1980 (mark 1 days). From memory a 27 took over at Mossend and took us to the too of Cowlairs, where another 27 coupled on at the rear to take us down the bank to Queen Street. Some shunting there to release the second 27 and put us on top of the Mallaig portion.

I dont now recall whether the 27 that took over at Mossend was the same one that took us on to FtWm. But I do recall that shortly before that, there had been an accident when the loco that had taken the train from Mossend to Cowlairs was detached there, followed the train down the bank but had a brake failure (only evident when running light) and ran away, hitting the train in the platform. As it was a class 40 on that occasion, I assume it had not been the intention to use the same loco over the West Highland Line!

 

[BRX]

As a teenager in the late 90s I used to watch the sleeper leaving Inverness. There were still motorail vans then, which would be in the loading siding alongside platform 1. The pair of 37s would back onto the motorail vans, take them out and then propel back onto the sleeper stock sitting in p1. This formed a pretty long consist which I think left the locos sitting well beyond the end of the platform. I don't recall the generator van but that's probably because I didn't really know what I was looking at. Assume it would have been coupled with the sleeper stock rather than the motorail vans?

I also seem to recall there was one or two "ethel" locos parked up just outside the main depot building, adjacent to the end of platform 1/2. Presumably they were left over from the previous phase of operations & disused by that point.

(NB all the above is according to my memory which may well not turn out to be accurate!)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 09:12 ==

It was only later (early 1990s?) that the three BGs were converted into generator vans, when the Inverness and Aberdeen sleepers went over to pairs of no-heat 37s.

Do you know why they switched to no-heat 37s when 37/4s and 47/4s already existed? A shortage of locos? Seems quite a project to build 3 generator vans when you have traction that can do the job.

 

[Steve Harris]

As a teenager in the late 90s I used to watch the sleeper leaving Inverness. There were still motorail vans then, which would be in the loading siding alongside platform 1. The pair of 37s would back onto the motorail vans, take them out and then propel back onto the sleeper stock sitting in p1. This formed a pretty long consist which I think left the locos sitting well beyond the end of the platform. I don't recall the generator van but that's probably because I didn't really know what I was looking at. Assume it would have been coupled with the sleeper stock rather than the motorail vans?


(NB all the above is according to my memory which may well not turn out to be accurate!)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 09:12 ==

I totally agree with what you have written about from whenever I've visited Inverness and left on the sleeper it's always departed from Platform 2 (even when it had motorail vans in the consist). In fact there is a video on YouTube showing the sleeper with motorail vans and the loco's hanging off the end of platform 2 (see post 19,931).

 

[35B]

As a teenager in the late 90s I used to watch the sleeper leaving Inverness. There were still motorail vans then, which would be in the loading siding alongside platform 1. The pair of 37s would back onto the motorail vans, take them out and then propel back onto the sleeper stock sitting in p1. This formed a pretty long consist which I think left the locos sitting well beyond the end of the platform. I don't recall the generator van but that's probably because I didn't really know what I was looking at. Assume it would have been coupled with the sleeper stock rather than the motorail vans?

I also seem to recall there was one or two "ethel" locos parked up just outside the main depot building, adjacent to the end of platform 1/2. Presumably they were left over from the previous phase of operations & disused by that point.

(NB all the above is according to my memory which may well not turn out to be accurate!)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 09:12 ==


Do you know why they switched to no-heat 37s when 37/4s and 47/4s already existed? A shortage of locos? Seems quite a project to build 3 generator vans when you have traction that can do the job.

A couple of observations from my trips to Inverness in the early-mid 1990s.

Use of 37s. The 37/4s have very restricted train supply capability, while the class as a whole was still in regular use in Scotland in a way that 47s weren't following sprinterisation. A pair of 37s also give more power than a 47, especially if they're not losing traction power by running ETS.

Generator Vans. These were surplus Mk1 parcels vehicles, with a small engine in. A previous design was in use for steam tours, so the cost was relatively low

ETHELs. By my first visit to Inverness (1991), the ETHELs were long gone. However, the (not entirely dissimilar) class 26s were still in use and to be seen around Inverness.

 

[BRX]

I totally agree with what you have written about from whenever I've visited Inverness and left on the sleeper it's always departed from Platform 2 (even when it had motorail vans in the consist). In fact there is a video on YouTube showing the sleeper with motorail vans and the loco's hanging off the end of platform 2.

Couldn't be sure whether it was p1 or p2.

The highland chieftain HST would arrive a bit before the sleeper left, and go into whichever of 1 or 2 the sleeper wasn't occupying (as is still the case today).

I don't recall whether the locos hanging off the end of the platform blocked the points or not. If it did then presumably the chieftain would have to get into its platform before the motorail vans were backed onto the sleeper.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:44 ==

Use of 37s. The 37/4s have very restricted train supply capability, while the class as a whole was still in regular use in Scotland in a way that 47s weren't following sprinterisation.

47s continued to be used for the loco hauled runs on the Highland Main Line (including the direct intercity to euston) until things were fully sprinterised. I don't recall what date exactly that happened.

I think after the double 37s the sleeper went to a 47 for a while before becoming a 67, is that right? And at some point the motorail vans disappeared making it a shorter load. Also recall the short lived Stagecoach(?) seated coach.

 

[Bikeman78]

I think after the double 37s the sleeper went to a 47 for a while before becoming a 67, is that right? And at some point the motorail vans disappeared making it a shorter load. Also recall the short lived Stagecoach(?) seated cocoach.

Yes. There was definitely a period of red class 47s to Aberdeen and Inverness in the early 2000s.

 

[35B]

Couldn't be sure whether it was p1 or p2.

The highland chieftain HST would arrive a bit before the sleeper left, and go into whichever of 1 or 2 the sleeper wasn't occupying (as is still the case today).

I don't recall whether the locos hanging off the end of the platform blocked the points or not. If it did then presumably the chieftain would have to get into its platform before the motorail vans were backed onto the sleeper.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:44 ==


47s continued to be used for the loco hauled runs on the Highland Main Line (including the direct intercity to euston) until things were fully sprinterised. I don't recall what date exactly that happened.

I think after the double 37s the sleeper went to a 47 for a while before becoming a 67, is that right? And at some point the motorail vans disappeared making it a shorter load. Also recall the short lived Stagecoach(?) seated coach.

I had 47/6s on the HML in summer 1992, but they’d been replaced by pairs of 37s by summer 1994.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

Observations of the Inverness portion that made on visits to Scotland between 1991 and 2000 -

31st October 1991 - 47671 and 47675 seen at Inverness in the morning after arrival with down Royal Highlander

18th May 1993 37510 and 37214 seen at Aviemore with that evening's up Royal Highlander

27th May 1993 37175 and 37113 seen at Aviemore with that evening's up Royal Highlander

Night of 26th/27th May 2000 47790 worked the Inverness portion of the down Royal Highlander from Edinburg to Inverness.

 

[JohnMcL7]

As a teenager in the late 90s I used to watch the sleeper leaving Inverness. There were still motorail vans then, which would be in the loading siding alongside platform 1. The pair of 37s would back onto the motorail vans, take them out and then propel back onto the sleeper stock sitting in p1. This formed a pretty long consist which I think left the locos sitting well beyond the end of the platform. I don't recall the generator van but that's probably because I didn't really know what I was looking at. Assume it would have been coupled with the sleeper stock rather than the motorail vans?

I also seem to recall there was one or two "ethel" locos parked up just outside the main depot building, adjacent to the end of platform 1/2. Presumably they were left over from the previous phase of operations & disused by that point.

There's a good video here of the sleeper in 1992 and you can see the generator van at the back as the train departs at the end:

I remember visiting the station as a child and my Dad pointing out the generator van to me, at the time I thought the class 47 seemed so smart and powerful that it could haul the sleeper on its own without the generator and in its Intercity livery rather than the mix the 37s often were.

The ex-Ethels did sit down by the depot for a while I think, my brother's neighbour's friend had a camcorder video going round the station at that time showing them and I wanted to upload the video but wasn't sure of ownership. I was just checking and he doesn't have the videos now unfortunately.

 

[BenBracken]

In the event of delays/loco failures do the highlander services get priority? I keep half an eye on the Inverness service as that’s the one I use, looks to be the majority of the time it runs OK and gets there pretty much to schedule. But reading some of these forum posts suggests all kinds of issues going on! I’m guessing it’s less hassle to terminate or replace a Edinburgh/Glasgow service due to the frequency of regular services and distance?

 

[johnr57]

How long were the motorail/sleeper consists?

 

[Steve Harris]

How long were the motorail/sleeper consists?

The attached video above shows 2× loco's with load 15 (ie 15 coaches/carriages/vans).

 

[hexagon789]

How long were the motorail/sleeper consists?

Load 16 including Motorail vans was the maximum, but it didn't always run as maximum load.

 

[Bill57p9]

How long were the motorail/sleeper consists?

There is another video here

which also shows the Night Aberdonian running with 2 class 37s and load 15 (including the generator van on the rear).

Certainly matches my memory of using it at the time.

I do remember that one summer (1993 maybe?) there was a major signalling issue at Haymarket that caused disruption for several weeks. As a result the Night Aberdonian changeover between diesel and electric traction took place at Carstairs with the train running via the Edinburgh South Suburban line.

 

[MadMac]

I do remember that one summer (1993 maybe?) there was a major signalling issue at Haymarket that caused disruption for several weeks. As a result the Night Aberdonian changeover between diesel and electric traction took place at Carstairs with the train running via the Edinburgh South Suburban line.

1995 IIRC. Serious wiring degradation in Haymarket Relay Room, Shotts and Carstairs services were sent round the Sub.