Caledonian Sleeper

[SuspectUsual]

Might be able to hear it. If someone is being attacked or suchlike they aren't going to be silient

Maybe. But that’s a very simplistic angle to take. Attacker wielding a knife tells the victim make a noise and I’ll knife you. Lots of victims stay silent

 

[3rd rail land]

So, in other countries where sharing a berth on a sleeper with strangers is commonplace, how many people get assaulted?

 

[Western Gaffer]

So, in other countries where sharing a birth on a sleeper with strangers is commonplace, how many people get assaulted?

Now that really would make enough noise to be noticed...

 

[D6130]

So, in other countries where sharing a birth on a sleeper with strangers is commonplace, how many people get assaulted?

Do they have a travelling midwife on the sleeper nowadays?.... just in case!

 

[Bald Rick]

I suppose that the "pod" option such as what you see on Nightjet or in Japan would help to alleviate this issue. However, it might not go with the "premium" styling that CS tries to go for.

I still don’t know how a pod system would work in our loading gauge.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Out of curiosity I've been on the Caledonian Sleeper Website trying to get a price of the supplement for a Caledonian Double room, but even when looking months in advance they're not available. Have they stopped offering them? They sound potentially more comfortable than a normal bunk bed.

 

[JamieL]

Out of curiosity I've been on the Caledonian Sleeper Website trying to get a price of the supplement for a Caledonian Double room, but even when looking months in advance they're not available. Have they stopped offering them? They sound potentially more comfortable than a normal bunk bed.

I don't think you can use a supplement for the Double accommodation - only for the normal cabins. But you are right, the double bed is very comfortable if you can travel on a day when one isn't fully booked.

Room Supplements

Find out about our room supplements, a way to upgrade to a room if you hold a valid UK train ticket, including Standard Class and First Class tickets.

www.sleeper.scot

 

[Bill57p9]

Thankyou . And presumably vice versa - the loco that did the ECS into Glasgow central then trundles over to Edinburgh to take the Highlander south?

It does indeed, usually running as 0C16 2342 Glasgow Central to Edinburgh.
For example, last night: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C04522/2026-09-14/detailed

The exception tends to be when the Fort William lounge plus seated coach require rotating through Polmadie, at which point the loco in question returns to Polmadie and takes the new coaches across to Edinburgh before working the southbound Highlander, with the northbound Highlander 92 taking the two old coaches back to Polmadie before running to Glasgow Central light to retrieve the northbound Glasgow ECS.

The southbound Edinburgh Lowlander portion 92 usually spends the night at Carstairs before working the northbound Edinburgh Lowlander.

Sum total of 6 92s used most nights.

Now you mention it, wasn't there a problem last week when an early morning Avanti had to be cancelled because the platfom it would have used at Glasgow was still occupied by the sleeper stock, waiting for the loco to release it to come across from Edinburgh, the loco having been delayed whilst working the northbound Highlander?

Yes - Twice last week the ECS was late out of Glasgow because the locomotive was held up with the Highlander. One of those days resulted in a Pendo running ECS, might have been as far as Preston.

 

[Kite159]

Two questions related to the CS:

1 - if the northbound Fort William is delayed, will it always be sent via Glasgow Central Low Level if there are passengers booked from there, or do they ever opt to send it direct to recover some time, and manage the stranded passengers separately?

2 - has the on time performance of the southbound Highlander into Euston got any better or worse since the Birmingham International stop was added?

The Fort William section only has a 6 minute window at Airdrie before a Glasgow bound stopper goes out in front. I guess if anybody is at Glasgow Queen Street booked to board they will either be told to use the Oban train to Dumbarton or put in a taxi.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Might be able to hear it. If someone is being attacked or suchlike they aren't going to be silient.

My previous neighbour and his (shortly ex) girlfriend had a massive fight about 10 years back - I certainly heard that, and that was through a quite thick brick wall (I normally can't hear anything from my neighbours). It would be inconceivable that anything like that could go on with the thin partitions of a train without anyone hearing. Whether they took any actions, though, is another question.

 

[3rd rail land]

My previous neighbour and his (shortly ex) girlfriend had a massive fight about 10 years back - I certainly heard that, and that was through a quite thick brick wall (I normally can't hear anything from my neighbours). It would be inconceivable that anything like that could go on with the thin partitions of a train without anyone hearing. Whether they took any actions, though, is another question.

I expect they would enter the room immediately but upon seeing a significant weapon, such as a knife/hammer/baseball bat, they would back off. That's what I would be doing. The crew member isn't going to be able to do anything against an armed attacker and I can't imagine they have the training to do so.

 

[styles]

I expect they would enter the room immediately but upon seeing a significant weapon, such as a knife/hammer/baseball bat, they would back off. That's what I would be doing. The crew member isn't going to be able to do anything against an armed attacker and I can't imagine they have the training to do so.

The reports on this man don't suggest he was carrying a weapon, and he assaulted both male and female travellers. CS staff I believe have bodycams now though I'm struggling to remember from my more recent journeys if these were ever rolled out. They may not physically stop somebody with a knife, but they'd contact the police who would respond pretty sharpish.

I suspect the reality is more that victims often freeze up in these situations, and that in this man's case some of it was verbal rather than physical, and while still awful, some people brush off verbal remarks.

Whether you would hear goings on between rooms on the sleeper, I'm not convinced really. The person in an adjacent room is usually somebody sleeping, on quite a noisy train, rather than an awake staff member. They do walk through the train every now and then but it's not hard to see that they've just left and in my experience they don't go through particularly often.

It actually in my view reinforces the suggestion of having more beds in the rooms and allowing sharing - you're more likely, in my opinion, to get help for such an incident if there's 3 other people in the room rather than being solo. Though it is a bit unclear from the reports how he gained access to locked rooms in the first place, which is probably something else CS need to look at.

 

[Bill57p9]

That newspaper article does indeed make troubling reading, however (and I may be missing something) I can't think how, in the context of "single booking cabins", the risks on a sleeper are any higher than a hotel:

• Assault in common areas
• Gaining a key card to access someone else's room
• Forcing entry into a room, e.g. ambush/tailgate

It's probably easier to trap someone on a train given the small corridors involved, however my gut feeling, as others have indicated, is that it would be harder to keep things private though the Deborah Linsley murder did prove that it is possible (yes that was non corridor stock, but little was heard in neighbouring compartments).

 

[Sasomida]

I feel a little lost, because I have spent the past number of weeks hoovering up this thread from page 1 and I have reached the (current) end. I saw it pop up in the chats and immediately the idea of the CS jumped into my head and has stayed there since.

I've seen all the problems the Mark Vs started with, the noisy ride over the bogies and over the track junctions, the moveable immovable ladder, the wet carpets outside the showers, the extremely comfortable seats in coach, the constant beeps from the equipment, the sloshing of the tanks, the extreme complexity of the merging and demerging at Edinburgh, the (in)frequency of delays and cancellations, the comparisons to flights and daytime trains, and still want to use it.

All I need now is a good excuse and time off. From a base in Sheffield, it has to be the Highlander and almost certainly Inverness, since the seats are calling me first and I don't like the idea of changing carriages at 4am. The Birmingham stop looks best, because Crewe is at a very unsociable hour and Birmingham New Street is at least a nice place to hang around if early (keeping an eye on trains to Birmingham International).

 

[norbitonflyer]

and almost certainly Inverness, since the seats are calling me first and I don't like the idea of changing carriages at 4am.

You don't have to change carriages on the Aberdeen either.

You could use a day train to Scotland and get the Sleeper back. Southbound, the Fort William passengers change carriages at the slightly more sociable hour of 1am

 

[Sasomida]

You don't have to change carriages on the Aberdeen either.

You could use a day train to Scotland and get the Sleeper back. Southbound, the Fort William passengers change carriages at the slightly more sociable hour of 1am

I hadn't even considered that - 1am is OK However, getting to Fort William on a day train would be quite an excursion (definitely requiring TrainSplit or equivalent). Hmm.

I was picking Inverness because it's further and I would be travelling South deliberately to use the sleeper, so it has to be far enough to make it worth it, but actually Inverness and Aberdeen are pretty equivalent. Inverness feels more attractive to me, though not sure why.

 

[najaB]

...actually Inverness and Aberdeen are pretty equivalent. Inverness feels more attractive to me, though not sure why.

Having visited both several times, I can confirm that your intuition is correct.

 

[JonathanH]

Having visited both several times, I can confirm that your intuition is correct.

You also get an extra hour of travel going to Inverness. Aberdeen arrival is too early really.

 

[185143]

Don't instantly rule out Fort William because of the carriage change. Seriously.

Your sleep will be pretty poor anyway. And you get to see most of the shunting that goes on at Edinburgh. It's a pretty complex and unique operation. And of course you have a guaranteed window view both sides of the fantastic scenery, as opposed to having to fight for space in the lounge car, or propping your room door open.

And I'm not just speaking from an enthusiast perspective. I was onboard once and someone was kicking off with the onboard staff about the change of carriages, saying he wouldn't have booked it if that had been said at the time and so on. The woman sat behind him stood up and properly put him in his place! And said to the staff she was intrigued at seeing what was actually going to happen, given they had explained a bit of it at that point.

 

[cats_five]

<snip>

I was picking Inverness because it's further and I would be travelling South deliberately to use the sleeper, so it has to be far enough to make it worth it, but actually Inverness and Aberdeen are pretty equivalent. Inverness feels more attractive to me, though not sure why.

For scenery, I'd say FW followed by Inverness followed by Aberdeen. Best to go in late April or early June when there are many hours of daylight to show it off. You could even go Sleeper one way and get a bus back to Edinburgh or Glasgow, then back on the train.

Or, you could go to FW and combine it with a trip to Mallaig & back. I don't mean on the Jacobite, I mean on the normal service trains. If you like seafood you can have 'prawns' for your lunch - they are actually langoustines.

 

[Bill57p9]

Both the West Highland Line and the A82 through Glencoe are breathtaking routes. If you have never done them before, I would highly recommend an itinerary that involves the sleeper one way and Ember the other, in daylight.
Don't forget that in summer daylight is substantially longer in Scotland than England, and that the bus fare Glasgow to Fort William is now just £4.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I hadn't even considered that - 1am is OK However, getting to Fort William on a day train would be quite an excursion (definitely requiring TrainSplit or equivalent). Hmm.

You don't have to go all the way to Fort William. You can leave Sheffield at lunchtime and be at Bridge of Orchy in time to meet the sleeper coming the other way

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 08:03 ==

For scenery, I'd say FW followed by Inverness followed by Aberdeen.

I'd agree, although the Aberdeen has coastal scenery and the Forth Bridge.

 

[Sasomida]

Thank you very much for your suggestions. The better view from the seating coach may make up for the slightly less comfortable sleeping and the switchover at Edinburgh. The idea of making this a very short trip (out on Friday, back on Saturday, home on Sunday), with just a day wandering around Fort William getting eaten by midges, with the focus really being the CS, is now sounding like a good option. At least I'd probably sleep better on the way back (I've read a few times on here about the best way to sleep on the sleeper - spend the night on it the previous night).

 

[185143]

Thank you very much for your suggestions. The better view from the seating coach may make up for the slightly less comfortable sleeping and the switchover at Edinburgh. The idea of making this a very short trip (out on Friday, back on Saturday, home on Sunday), with just a day wandering around Fort William getting eaten by midges, with the focus really being the CS, is now sounding like a good option. At least I'd probably sleep better on the way back (I've read a few times on here about the best way to sleep on the sleeper - spend the night on it the previous night).

Doesn't run on a Saturday night!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Thank you very much for your suggestions. The better view from the seating coach may make up for the slightly less comfortable sleeping and the switchover at Edinburgh. The idea of making this a very short trip (out on Friday, back on Saturday, home on Sunday),

Remember there is no sleeper on Saturday night.

Rather than wandering round Fort William for ten hours, provided the weather is good, you coupd consder climbing Ben Nevis. I've done it using the sleeper twice (Big Ben to Ben Nevis and back in 36 hours!)

 

[Sasomida]

I'd read the lack of Saturday sleeper enough times, and obviously forgot, so it was good I said that!

Spending Saturday night somewhere and arriving back into Birmingham at 6:20 means being able to work on the Monday.

Climbing Ben Nevis would be an aspiration, but not a condition of making the trip.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Climbing Ben Nevis would be an aspiration, but not a condition of making the trip.

You certainly need a Plan B, in case of poor weather or a delayed arrival at FW.

 

[QueensCurve]

I was picking Inverness because it's further and I would be travelling South deliberately to use the sleeper, so it has to be far enough to make it worth it, but actually Inverness and Aberdeen are pretty equivalent. Inverness feels more attractive to me, though not sure why.

Inverness is, in my view, more worthy of a visit. But Fort William for the scenery on approach.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Could you not get the sleeper to FW, have a look around, get the coach to Inverness, look around and spend the night, train to Aberdeen the next day, look around and then get the Sleeper from Aberdeen back home? Or look around Aberdeen, train to Dundee, look around and pick up the CS from Dundee?