Caledonian Sleeper

[DavidCooper]

Curiously RTT showed those two locos before we were told it needed another loco. Could it be a positioning move?

 

[Scotrail84]

Curiously RTT showed those two locos before we were told it needed another loco. Could it be a positioning move?

RTT doesn't show locos top and tailed (that I've seen), it will always show them double headed for some reason. Whats on the front? 2 x 92s or just 1?

If there is one dead in tow then it will likely to be for getting back to Polmadie for repairs if it is knackered, or as you say it could be a positioning move if they're short in Scotland.

It is quite rare to have 2 locos on the portions to/from Euston. They don't like doing it, causes issues with shunt moves in Edinburgh as one loco is dead and needs to be started up wasting valuable time

 

[jfollows]

Curiously RTT showed those two locos before we were told it needed another loco. Could it be a positioning move?

Much more likely akin to when we see services as made from 2xPendolino, it’s probably just wrong. Albeit more possible of course.

 

[Class15]

Doesn’t look like it will make up time. 56 down past Milton Keynes.

 

[Scotrail84]

Doesn’t look like it will make up time. 56 down past Milton Keynes.

It can make up around 30 minutes between London and Preston and maybe 10 minutes more between Preston and Carstairs with a good run.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It can make up around 30 minutes between London and Preston and maybe 10 minutes more between Preston and Carstairs with a good run.

Only 6 minutes late off Preston...

 

[JamieL]

At times it really is a shambles, very poor resilience for loco failures because they've not got enough 92s or 73s to allow for failures, severe shortage of coaches, lack of flexibility when using all available vehicles in an already depleted fleet to run a service.

And yet it is still the best TOC in Scotland.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jan 2025 ==

Only 6 minutes late off Preston...

...and departed Edinburgh on time.

 

[Bald Rick]

That will struggle to make up 50 minutes, maybe 30 but probably not much more.

Doesn’t look like it will make up time. 56 down past Milton Keynes.

Ye of little fairh. Currently 11 early at Dalwhinnie, and will wait path at Kincraig. Ft Bill portion on time.

Perhaps, just perhaps, CS know what they are doing?

 

[Class15]

Ye of little fairh. Currently 11 early at Dalwhinnie, and will wait path at Kincraig. Ft Bill portion on time.

Perhaps, just perhaps, CS know what they are doing?

Counted the allowances and it didn’t make anywhere near 56 minutes. Must be more padding that isn’t an allowance?

 

[Bald Rick]

Counted the allowances and it didn’t make anywhere near 56 minutes. Must be more padding that isn’t an allowance?

It’s not padding. It will be assumed running slow line but run fast line or similar, and making up time at stations.

 

[Scotrail84]

Ye of little fairh. Currently 11 early at Dalwhinnie, and will wait path at Kincraig. Ft Bill portion on time.

Perhaps, just perhaps, CS know what they are doing?

There is only one split in Edinburgh just now since the Aberdeen and Ft William portions are running on alternative days so that saves time.

It will have missed stations where nobody is booked to alight (risky incase someone changes their mind), and it also misses Dunkeld completely while they raise the platform. It has to stop at Kingussie, Aviemore and Carrbridge though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jan 2025 ==

It’s not padding. It will be assumed running slow line but run fast line or similar, and making up time at stations.

There is padding, its given a very generous 68 minutes to get from Crewe to Preston.

As you can see from RTT its left Kingussie 7 early, Aviemore 2 early and Carrbridge 4 early. They are pick up stations, obviously nobody booked on. Bit naughty considering someone could turn up at the last minute. Imagine if a ScotRail service buggered off 7 early on a line with a limited service. That would make the papers.

 

[Bald Rick]

There is only one split in Edinburgh just now since the Aberdeen and Ft William portions are running on alternative days so that saves time.

It will have missed stations where nobody is booked to alight (risky incase someone changes their mind), and it also misses Dunkeld completely while they raise the platform. It has to stop at Kingussie, Aviemore and Carrbridge though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jan 2025 ==


There is padding, its given a very generous 68 minutes to get from Crewe to Preston.

As you can see from RTT its left Kingussie 7 early, Aviemore 2 early and Carrbridge 4 early. They are pick up stations, obviously nobody booked on. Bit naughty considering someone could turn up at the last minute. Imagine if a ScotRail service buggered off 7 early on a line with a limited service. That would make the papers.

well fortunately it was only 3L into Edinburgh, so the reduced portion working didnt help this time

 

[Sun Chariot]

That’s true as a general point, but not all defects are equal. There’s a reasonably long list of issues which would prohibit the train continuing in passenger service.

Three examples from personal experience and, in all three cases, we remained inside the train:

1) Stirling station, summer 1990. 47541 arrived, with flanes sprouting out of its roof vents, with my intended service to Inverness. We boarded.
The train was held until fire extinguished and 47293 arrived to assist the now-failed 541 all the way to Inverness.

2) class 315 on Seven Sisters loop, 1996: shortly after we left Edmonton, the train braked and there was a loud scraping from the pantograph above my carriage. Then a lot of arcing, lights dimmed and the panto hung down beside my carriage window.
The train halted sharply and we were held there until the unit could be dragged back to Edmonton.

3) 31432 hauling a S&C service, 1984. The Ped Goyle expired near Dent.
We remained on-train until Skipton or Holbeck sent us a 25/1 to get us the rest of the way to Leeds

 

[Narrowgauge725]

I was in Inverness today and the class 73 seemed to be running flat out. Does the class 73 have to run all day for hotel power? Surely it would much more environmentally friendly to have a ‘shore’ connection.

 

[Scotrail84]

I was in Inverness today and the class 73 seemed to be running flat out. Does the class 73 have to run all day for hotel power? Surely it would much more environmentally friendly to have a ‘shore’ connection.

The 73 and 66 are left running all day, 73 is using more fuel as its got its ETS supply on to power the coaches as they can't be shut down during any shunt moves as they need to isolate the brakes in order to move them. I'm not entirely sure the sleeper can get in the old motorail road at Inverness with the shore supply as ScotRail use it to stable HSTs.

 

[InvHst]

The 73 and 66 are left running all day, 73 is using more fuel as its got its ETS supply on to power the coaches as they can't be shut down during any shunt moves as they need to isolate the brakes in order to move them. I'm not entirely sure the sleeper can get in the old motorail road at Inverness with the shore supply as ScotRail use it to stable HSTs.

Majority of the time the sleeper is connected to the shore supply on platform 2 and as such the 66//73 are shut down. The sleeper uses the motorail siding on a Saturday unless it needs plugged in then it will go to Aberdeen to be plugged in

 

[Scotrail84]

Majority of the time the sleeper is connected to the shore supply on platform 2 and as such the 66//73 are shut down. The sleeper uses the motorail siding on a Saturday unless it needs plugged in then it will go to Aberdeen to be plugged in

Both loco were left running today according to sources up there.

 

[PG]

The 73 and 66 are left running all day, 73 is using more fuel as its got its ETS supply on to power the coaches as they can't be shut down during any shunt moves as they need to isolate the brakes in order to move them.

Does the same apply at Polmadie? i.e. a 92 has to remain connected to the stock all day to ensure it has ETS.

 

[Scotrail84]

Does the same apply at Polmadie? i.e. a 92 has to remain connected to the stock all day to ensure it has ETS.

Yes, I believe this is the case unless the sets are in the shed for maintenance as the ETS needs to be off before you can access certain components. Thats a pretty standard safety feature with most new rolling stock really.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jan 2025 ==

Yet another late departure for 1S25 tonight.

 

[Class15]

Yet another late departure for 1S25 tonight.

I’d be amazed if it doesn’t make up the time.

 

[Scotrail84]

I’d be amazed if it doesn’t make up the time.

It probably will assuming out doesn't encounter more issues up the line. Still, it goes down in the record books as leaving late though. Fines accrued etc.

 

[PG]

Yes, I believe this is the case unless the sets are in the shed for maintenance as the ETS needs to be off before you can access certain components.

This makes me wonder if this (needing a near permanent ETS) is peculiar to CAF or just something we have to accept with 21st century hauled stock??

 

[Peter Sarf]

This makes me wonder if this (needing a near permanent ETS) is peculiar to CAF or just something we have to accept with 21st century hauled stock??

It is the "modern" way.

 

[Scotrail84]

This makes me wonder if this (needing a near permanent ETS) is peculiar to CAF or just something we have to accept with 21st century hauled stock??

The stock only has limited battery power to survive on before they shut down, I think its 90 minutes but could be wrong. Once they 'die', they have to be connected to an ETS source to get them going again. I believe that is what happened on the main line a few years back, batteries ran out after the ETS failed and possibly went unnoticed resulting in major wheel flats when the brakes slammed on and basically a whole rake of 16 was taken out of service for repairs.

 

[PG]

The stock only has limited battery power to survive on before they shut down, I think its 90 minutes but could be wrong. Once they 'die', they have to be connected to an ETS source to get them going again. I believe that is what happened on the main line a few years back, batteries ran out after the ETS failed and possibly went unnoticed resulting in major wheel flats when the brakes slammed on and basically a whole rake of 16 was taken out of service for repairs.

I must be getting on a bit (rhetorical!!) as lack of ETS doesn't warrant, in my mind, a brake application initiated by the coaches themselves. I'm trying to recall the RAIB report into the Edinburgh incident, didn't that mention that the brake pipe valve/coupling was separate from the 61(?) way ETS connection?

 

[Bald Rick]

I’d be amazed if it doesn’t make up the time.

It probably will assuming out doesn't encounter more issues up the line. Still, it goes down in the record books as leaving late though. Fines accrued etc.

On time arrival at Crewe.

 

[zwk500]

Yes, I believe this is the case unless the sets are in the shed for maintenance as the ETS needs to be off before you can access certain components. Thats a pretty standard safety feature with most new rolling stock really.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jan 2025 ==

Yet another late departure for 1S25 tonight.

Is it not possible to fit a shore supply connection, or would the units need shunting too often to be left in that state?

 

[Scotrail84]

I must be getting on a bit (rhetorical!!) as lack of ETS doesn't warrant, in my mind, a brake application initiated by the coaches themselves. I'm trying to recall the RAIB report into the Edinburgh incident, didn't that mention that the brake pipe valve/coupling was separate from the 61(?) way ETS connection?

My understanding is that if the ETS supply fails during a journey and the batteries then run out (time out) then the brakes slam on when the coaches shut down causing severe wheel flats if the train is travelling at speed at the time.

IIRC the Edinburgh incident was nothing to do with ETS but more to do with shunting procedures at Carstairs and something to do with the brake cock handles being out of position.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2025 ==

Is it not possible to fit a shore supply connection, or would the units need shunting too often to be left in that state?

I don't know if there are shore supplies at Polmadie as I don't know the depot details.

 

[PG]

My understanding is that if the ETS supply fails during a journey and the batteries then run out (time out) then the brakes slam on when the coaches shut down causing severe wheel flats if the train is travelling at speed at the time.

Yes indeed, its more a case of understanding why the system is designed in this way?

 

[Sealink]

So if you were on the seated sleeper and decanted to AWC, would that be in their First Class?

These are the kind of things I think about.