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Caledonian Sleeper

norbitonflyer

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Your correct - time at Crianlarich now showing
[EDIT] Now reported at Helensburgh Upper 88 minutes down, and showing on OTT.

Services suspeneded between Helensburgh Central and Dumbarton Central because of a failed track circuit at Craigendoran, but it appears to be on the westbound, so the CS shouldn't be affected
 
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RailUK Forums

alistairlees

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After a long wait at Craigendoran it has left Dumbarton only 3 minutes late. Fingers crossed for the rest of the journey...
 

JamieL

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Looks like the southbound Highlander is tracking for an on time arrival into London Euston. Remarkable given the weather. BZ to CS!
 

InOban

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I think that the credit goes to NR who agreed to try the revised schedule- I think that last year they would have closed the WHl on that forecast.
 

JamieL

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Looks like everything is set to depart on time today despite yesterday's weather challenges.
 

Scotrail84

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Looks like everything is set to depart on time today despite yesterday's weather challenges.
Thats because they amended the arrival times to 1 or 2 hours later depending on the service, its also to avoid paying out any delay repay to passengers.
 

JamieL

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Thats because they amended the arrival times to 1 or 2 hours later depending on the service, its also to avoid paying out any delay repay to passengers.
Timings are back to normal for tonight:
 

fraser158

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Thats because they amended the arrival times to 1 or 2 hours later depending on the service, its also to avoid paying out any delay repay to passengers.
Does changing the times on the day absolve them of delay repay?

I know they can't control the weather but delay repay doesn't take the reason for delay into account.
 

Scotrail84

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Does changing the times on the day absolve them of delay repay?

I know they can't control the weather but delay repay doesn't take the reason for delay into account.
Yes it does, amended arrival times organised in advance means no delay repay is due. Pretty sneaky but it's not just the sleeper that does this.
 

swaldman

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Yes it does, amended arrival times organised in advance means no delay repay is due. Pretty sneaky but it's not just the sleeper that does this.
I'm still of the view that this shouldn't work - that delay repay should relate to the timetable at the time that the ticket was bought, and/or the itinerary that the ticket was bought with. Feels like there should be a contractual basis for this under consumer rights legislation, but I wouldn't like to assume that since I realise the railways have all sorts of odd legal privileges.
 

Tazi Hupefi

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How does one make an Interrail reservation for this service? Do they respond swiftly to their "contact us" link they use for it?
You can do it online, but it may be cheaper to buy a berth inclusive ticket, rather than just the room supplement, particularly if you have any discounts such as a Railcard.

You just select the "Room Supplement Only" option.

£145 (Twin/Classic) for Standard Interrail or £195 in First (Club). You must have a first class pass to make a club reservation.
 

Scotrail84

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I'm still of the view that this shouldn't work - that delay repay should relate to the timetable at the time that the ticket was bought, and/or the itinerary that the ticket was bought with. Feels like there should be a contractual basis for this under consumer rights legislation, but I wouldn't like to assume that since I realise the railways have all sorts of odd legal privileges.
I think there must be a time limit in which they can amend the arrival times before delay repay can be cancelled so to say, booked passengers surely must be notified beforehand though. It could be a minimum of 24hrs notice but I honestly don't know.

I agree though, companies (not just the sleeper) shouldn't be allowed to do this. I guess you can't help the weather though and planning ahead I suppose is better than a late cancellation.
 

paninaro

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I'm still of the view that this shouldn't work - that delay repay should relate to the timetable at the time that the ticket was bought, and/or the itinerary that the ticket was bought with. Feels like there should be a contractual basis for this under consumer rights legislation, but I wouldn't like to assume that since I realise the railways have all sorts of odd legal privileges.

Is it just railways though? As i understand it airlines do this all the time: "We've cancelled this flight you're on and moved you to this other one. You're free to agree or get a full refund" ?
 

Bald Rick

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Does changing the times on the day absolve them of delay repay?

I know they can't control the weather but delay repay doesn't take the reason for delay into account.

Yes it does, amended arrival times organised in advance means no delay repay is due. Pretty sneaky but it's not just the sleeper that does this.

Strictly speaking, the train wasn’t delayed on arrival compared to the original or amended schedule. Therefore no delays to pay for !
 

Scotrail84

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Strictly speaking, the train wasn’t delayed on arrival compared to the original or amended schedule. Therefore no delays to pay for !
The Fort William? Yes it was. 10:48 it arrived in ftw with an amended arrival time of 11:00 so they get out of paying delay repay.
 

Tazi Hupefi

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To be fair to CS, they are absolutely fantastic at paying out compensation and managing disruption. One of the perks of their set up is that virtually all customers have a reservation AND, crucially, contact details taken.

Text messages, phone calls and emails from real people are the norm in these situations, and people accommodated with bespoke arrangements if needs be.

I have absolutely no doubt that people who had to board the train early will have been compensated either with a partial discount or kept well refreshed in the club car.

Their compensation is almost always automatic or without quibble. It just under a year, they'd paid out around £1million alone - so one train from Fort William out of season makes absolutely no difference to them, and wouldn't even form part of their thinking when managing disruption.


Almost £700,000 of the figure went to passengers who had been delayed for more than one hour. It was also discovered that £163,430.44 in compensation was paid to people experiencing delays of 30 minutes.

In law, I'm not sure there's even a legal requirement to pay compensation on the cost of the Berth and/or any other inclusive services.
 

swaldman

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Is it just railways though? As i understand it airlines do this all the time: "We've cancelled this flight you're on and moved you to this other one. You're free to agree or get a full refund" ?
True. I don't like that either. But they don't tend to do it at the very last minute. (perhaps because they have a lot more wiggle room to not pay compensation when it isn't their fault)
 

robert thomas

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True. I don't like that either. But they don't tend to do it at the very last minute. (perhaps because they have a lot more wiggle room to not pay compensation when it isn't their fault)
Delay repay was a political concept placed on the railways by John Major? It doesn't apply to their competitors on the roads or to the road network. Another case of the government favouring the road lobby.
 

Crepello

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Yes it does, amended arrival times organised in advance means no delay repay is due. Pretty sneaky but it's not just the sleeper that does this.
IMHO the only "sneaky" element are folks demanding compensation for weather delays that are entirely beyond the TOC's control... Completely sympathize with entities limiting their exposure in these days of compensation culture and minimal personal accountability!
 

norbitonflyer

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Delay repay was a political concept placed on the railways by John Major? It doesn't apply to their competitors on the roads or to the road network. Another case of the government favouring the road lobby.
. and is wrong-headed anyway, first in assuming that lost time can be compensated by money, and secondly in that the value of that time is in any way related to the fare paid.

And if the former were the case, delay should be valued in the same way that time is in BCR calculations - for instance in the time savings purported to be made by road projects.

If, as many people in all walks of life are (from shelf stackers to KCs), you are paid by the hour, should you be able to get compensation at the same rate for the lost working hours?
 

Bill57p9

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Is it just railways though? As i understand it airlines do this all the time: "We've cancelled this flight you're on and moved you to this other one. You're free to agree or get a full refund" ?
There are limits though as to how close to the departure date airlines can play this without penalty - 2 weeks from memory. Obviously airlines might not be forthcoming with this info though…
The Fort William? Yes it was. 10:48 it arrived in ftw with an amended arrival time of 11:00 so they get out of paying delay repay.
The schedule amendment (which was also applied to the Inverness northbound and Highlander southbound) was only applied between the penultimate timing point and destination which means that anyone alighting before the final destination would still be eligible for DR.
 

35B

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IMHO the only "sneaky" element are folks demanding compensation for weather delays that are entirely beyond the TOC's control... Completely sympathize with entities limiting their exposure in these days of compensation culture and minimal personal accountability!
They offer me a service, it is for them to fulfil. One of their risks in doing so is weather.
. and is wrong-headed anyway, first in assuming that lost time can be compensated by money, and secondly in that the value of that time is in any way related to the fare paid.

And if the former were the case, delay should be valued in the same way that time is in BCR calculations - for instance in the time savings purported to be made by road projects.

If, as many people in all walks of life are (from shelf stackers to KCs), you are paid by the hour, should you be able to get compensation at the same rate for the lost working hours?
It’s a standard concept, designed to avoid dispute and tie liability to the income received. It’s got its limits (especially where people make other decisions based on timetables), but takes the heat out of a lot of potential disputes. If I buy a ticket, that sets a value on the journey - it is not the operator’s business whether I’m an enthusiast pootling around, or a highly paid professional with urgent deadlines.

It also - and importantly, whether in Delay Repay or EU261 form x puts transport providers in a place where they have to acknowledge a consequence of their failure on the consumer.
 

Peter Sarf

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They offer me a service, it is for them to fulfil. One of their risks in doing so is weather.

It’s a standard concept, designed to avoid dispute and tie liability to the income received. It’s got its limits (especially where people make other decisions based on timetables), but takes the heat out of a lot of potential disputes. If I buy a ticket, that sets a value on the journey - it is not the operator’s business whether I’m an enthusiast pootling around, or a highly paid professional with urgent deadlines.

It also - and importantly, whether in Delay Repay or EU261 form x puts transport providers in a place where they have to acknowledge a consequence of their failure on the consumer.
Indeed. It at least makes the TOC feel some pain if they cannot get it right. It is not worth debating/calculating to much how much the compensation should be.

In the end if the compensation is not enough for the customer and/or the compensation is not hurting the TOC enough then the customer will vote with their feet.

Current carryings on CS indicate that either customers are happy to come back for another trip OR there is still an unlimited supply of new customers willing to try.
 

norbitonflyer

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It also - and importantly, whether in Delay Repay or EU261 form x puts transport providers in a place where they have to acknowledge a consequence of their failure on the consumer.
Quite so, but there does seem to be an attitude of some operators that punctuiality doesn't matter (delays/missed connections are acceptable) as long as the people affected get a refund. No matter that they've missed a funeral/first night/cup final/coronation whatever.

Which is a bit like giving you your money back for the faulty battery that burned your house down.
 

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