Caledonian Sleeper

[Bletchleyite]

It's all a bit back to the future - years ago ScotRail used to have a portakabin on P17.

 

[paul1609]

Hi,I am planning a solo trip from Fort William to Brighton in late December and am looking for advice on the best transportation option.
I'm considering taking the Caledonian Sleeper directly from Fort William to London, booking a seat rather than a room, since the prices are reasonable and I may not have another chance to travel on this iconic sleeper train. The direct overnight trip would be convenient as I wouldn't have to change trains.
However, I could also take a daytime scotrail to Glasgow, then get the Pendolino to London with an superfare ticket, or fly from Glasgow to Gatwick.

As someone more familiar with these routes, would you recommend trying the Caledonian Sleeper seats for the experience or going with another faster or cheaper option? How comfortable are the seated accomodations on the Sleeper?

Cheapest will be a through Megabus ticket from Fort William to London Victoria Coach Station its one change at Buchanan Street bus station,the overnight megabuses to London are ok in my opinion basically they are non stop through the night with only a 10 min break at usually Lancaster Services for a driver change. on arrival in London walk to Victoria Rail Station for a frequent service to Brighton.
Easiest and quickest by far get the 915 citylink service from Fort William direct to Glasgow Airport, usually an Easyjet flight to London Gatwick then the train from Gatwick to Brighton. Theres now also an Easyjet flight from Glasgow to Southampton on Thursdays and Saturdays, being a new service it often has bargain fares. from Southampton airport get a train from the station to Southampton Central and then Brighton. Loganair also fly this route a couple of times a day but are usually more expensive.
Sleeper seats is for pseudo masochists only ditto National Express and Flixbus. D
Regard the sleeper as an experience its expensive and the best experience is in early summer because of the light. personally if your going to only do it once wait for the summer and then doing it northbound. Having breakfast passing through Ranoch Moor having left London the night before is magical. Breakfast passing through a drizzly Milton keynes Central having left the highlands the day before less so imho.
Day time train fails on all the fronts imho too slow, too expensive cross London and Glasgow interchanges, too unreliable as well in my considerable experience.
Theres many mix and match options too. For instance Scotrail train to Dalmiur walk down the hill and then a very slow but cheap bus to Glasgow Airport then flights as above.

 

[BRX]

Ignore the bus & plane pushers; it's become a sport on this thread. It's a journey well worth doing by rail the whole way through, unless you are really constrained time wise.

 

[Bald Rick]

If the delay was due to the weather / track, would it not be Network Rail who foot the bill for delay repay rather than CS?

No, CS will pay the delay repay.

Compensation between NR and CS is a separate, and rather complicated matter (as it is for all train companies).

 

[JamieL]

Ignore the bus & plane pushers; it's become a sport on this thread. It's a journey well worth doing by rail the whole way through, unless you are really constrained time wise.

I agree with this. Personally I couldn't imagine anything worse than a long distance bus journey. And flying is hardly fun either- long waits at departures, hassle of security, allowed/non-allowed goods, crammed like sardines on the plane etc.

 

[jagardner1984]

The whole purpose of the sleeper is about the quality of the mode of transport (for which you, and indeed the Scottish taxpayer, pay a premium). (That said I think it is unarguable that in the context of other rail tickets in a first class seat London to Inverness or Fort William, the seats represent a low cost per mile travelled.) There is an argument as to whether the sleeper represents value for money, and clearly the calculation is that the hundreds of tourists delivered nightly into the heart of the highlands are worth something to the Scottish economy, but as a simple matter of fact, the experience of winding down at home, having a shower, taking quiet mid evening train or bus or taxi into town, boarding a train, getting into an actual bed with an actual pillow lying actually flat, and arriving at your destination the next morning, is a genuinely lovely way to travel long distance, and when considered against standing in Buchanan Bus Station at 10 at night or navigating to and through Luton Airport to squeeze onto a crammed A320 at 6am, is truly incomparable as an experience.

 

[Blindtraveler]

And one which is clearly going through somewhat of a major revival elsewhere in the world, funnily enough elsewhere in the world doesn't seem to be charging quite so much for it, so where are we going wrong? Now that the service is effectively nationalized under Scottish government control I wonder if the hotel on rails marketing will continue in quite the same way or if they will seek to make it look a bit more like a public service? I suspect the answer to this in the medium to long-term is yes but not under current political arrangements.



New CS lounge sounds interesting, I wonder if they'll offer a paid upgrade to passengers in other classes of accommodation for example classic room or seated, particularly if they are offering things like shower facilities and basic hot meals? It's certainly something that I would pay for as in indeed I would pay for a lounge access upgrade in several Scottish departure points where standard waiting facilities on station are not the best and you don't have a standard premium waiting facility in other words a weatherspoon or similar on site as you do at say Edinburgh or Glasgow

Finally as a regular viewer and contributor to this thread could we please not yet again debate the merits of sleeper versus day train versus overnight coach versus easyJet?

It's long since become tedious and maybe if someone does want to extoll the virtues of one method or another or indeed tell us all the things that are wrong with it then maybe start their own thread?

 

[JamieL]

And one which is clearly going through somewhat of a major revival elsewhere in the world, funnily enough elsewhere in the world doesn't seem to be charging quite so much for it, so where are we going wrong? Now that the service is effectively nationalized under Scottish government control I wonder if the hotel on rails marketing will continue in quite the same way or if they will seek to make it look a bit more like a public service? I suspect the answer to this in the medium to long-term is yes but not under current political arrangements.



New CS lounge sounds interesting, I wonder if they'll offer a paid upgrade to passengers in other classes of accommodation for example classic room or seated, particularly if they are offering things like shower facilities and basic hot meals? It's certainly something that I would pay for as in indeed I would pay for a lounge access upgrade in several Scottish departure points where standard waiting facilities on station are not the best and you don't have a standard premium waiting facility in other words a weatherspoon or similar on site as you do at say Edinburgh or Glasgow

Finally as a regular viewer and contributor to this thread could we please not yet again debate the merits of sleeper versus day train versus overnight coach versus easyJet?

It's long since become tedious and maybe if someone does want to extoll the virtues of one method or another or indeed tell us all the things that are wrong with it then maybe start their own thread?

Not this nonsense again. The CS is not marketed as a hotel on wheels now!

 

[Christmas]

Not this nonsense again. The CS is not marketed as a hotel on wheels now!

What exactly is it now marketed as?

 

[Bald Rick]

but as a simple matter of fact, the experience of winding down at home, having a shower, taking quiet mid evening train or bus or taxi into town, boarding a train, getting into an actual bed with an actual pillow lying actually flat, and arriving at your destination the next morning, is a genuinely lovely way to travel long distance, and when considered against standing in Buchanan Bus Station at 10 at night or navigating to and through Luton Airport to squeeze onto a crammed A320 at 6am, is truly incomparable as an experience.

But… experiences differ. Personally I would much rather lie flat in my own bed (where I might actually get some half decent sleep) travel to Luton airport onto a A320 (extra leg room seats) which departs for the central belt around 0845. And prefer further still, if needing to be in the central belt before 1030, to leave London around 17/1800 the night before, eat, work, read on the train, and stay in a hotel where i will get a decent night’s sleep. That is genuinely a nice way to travel, for me.

 

[lachlan]

Good to see a new lounge opening but disappointing that again it seems it isn't available to all passengers or even all with rooms.

 

[Butts]

Good to see a new lounge opening but disappointing that again it seems it isn't available to all passengers or even all with rooms.

Lets hope the new Lounge is more like an Avanti one than an LNER "Tea and Biscuits" parsimonious enclave.

 

[alistairlees]

Good to see a new lounge opening but disappointing that again it seems it isn't available to all passengers or even all with rooms.

It would need to be big enough for at least 200 people if that were to be the case

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree with this. Personally I couldn't imagine anything worse than a long distance bus journey.

Not much different from the Sleeper seats if you're of a skinnier build, but personally I'd only do it if I could guarantee a double seat.

And flying is hardly fun either- long waits at departures, hassle of security, allowed/non-allowed goods, crammed like sardines on the plane etc.

It is however very fast, so most people disregard those inconveniences, which are fairly minor in the scheme of things.

 

[Butts]

Not much different from the Sleeper seats if you're of a skinnier build, but personally I'd only do it if I could guarantee a double seat.



It is however very fast, so most people disregard those inconveniences, which are fairly minor in the scheme of things.

And generally a lot cheaper even in Club Europe compared to top CS Fares.

I flew from Heathrow to Aberdeen last Thursday and back on Sunday - flight time around an hour.

BA Lounges at Heathrow and Aberdeen are far superior to anything CS are likely to come up with.

There is Fast Track Security available at both Airports as well.

 

[SuspectUsual]

What exactly is it now marketed as?

Well, the front page splash on the CS website this morning has "Wake up to a unique way of travelling" in big letters. Now obviously unique could be take to have many different meanings!

 

[Butts]

Well, the front page splash on the CS website this morning has "Wake up to a unique way of travelling" in big letters. Now obviously unique could be take to have many different meanings!

Uniquely slow would be a more appropriate description.

I've got nothing against the CS which is a boon for enthusiasts, tourists and people not in a hurry- is that who it is marketed at ?

In terms of speed it's like comparing a horse and cart to a car in relation to Aviation's undoubted superiority.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Uniquely slow would be a more appropriate description.

I've got nothing against the CS which is a boon for enthusiasts, tourists and people not in a hurry- is that who it is marketed at ?

In terms of speed it's like comparing a horse and cart to a car in relation to Aviation's undoubted superiority.

There's also an assumption you'll go to sleep at some point

 

[BRX]

Not this nonsense again. The CS is not marketed as a hotel on wheels now!

 

[lachlan]

If you stay in London or Bristol or another location convenient for air then flying would be convenient. Unfortunately for us travelling at new years flying was either really expensive (Heathrow to Aberdeen and NatEx or train) or would take almost as long as the train all things considered (Bristol-Aberdeen and bus/train).

The sleeper train would be more attractive if it were a bit cheaper and if there was lounge access so we could be comfortable while waiting at Euston.

Right now day train won out. Flying is only "very fast" if you're going city to city. Otherwise it may be a bit faster but not enough to justify the environmental cost or inconvenience of the faff in airports.

 

[norbitonflyer]

CS lounge staff busily handing out free Prosecco and mini burgers to celebrate the opening of the new lounge. Located half way down platform 1, it is available to Club sleeper passengers, and has toilets and showers, and a small menu of cooked food. Complimentary tea, coffee, crisps etc.

It seems well organised, with passengers being checked in at the front desk, and priority boarding passes issued.

The only sticking point was getting access to platform 1 in the first place. The barriers were closed, and I had to wait several minutes to attract the attention of the barrier staff.

Getting checked in at the front desk would definitely be a plus, as against the scrum there was before. and "priority boarding" was a joke last time we travelled with them. Simply a race to get past the randomly placed staff on the platform (which we assumed to be checking in only the passengers for the carriage they were next to, so we walked past only to be poeremptorily called back.
And then the race to be first in the lounge car, with first-come-first-seated: no priority given to club passengers despite the promises.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And then the race to be first in the lounge car, with first-come-first-seated: no priority given to club passengers despite the promises.

I'm surprised there isn't a booking system for lounge car places, to be honest. This could be open to club passengers from the time of booking, but only to classic passengers say 6 hours before departure or on-spec.

There's no other reason to rush in the "Euston scrum" to the train, as reservations are compulsory for the seats and cabins you know you've got a place, and it's called far further in advance than your average Avanti or LNR. Hang back in the pub and go 10 minutes after it opens or something.

 

[al78]

I agree with this. Personally I couldn't imagine anything worse than a long distance bus journey. And flying is hardly fun either- long waits at departures, hassle of security, allowed/non-allowed goods, crammed like sardines on the plane etc.

I did a long distance bus journey a couple of years ago from Glasgow to London. Cheap and cheerful but as you say slow and my main bugbear is the inability to get a proper meal during the ten hour journey. I hoped at the time there would be a short layover at a service station to allow passengers to get refreshments but they only stop to change drivers. Lesson learnt.

Flying is convenient for speed and price if you can use one of the low cost airlines, but there is the risk of significant delays way longer than you typically get on a train, getting too and from the airport can add considerable time and expense, and taking bulky things like a bicycle is difficult although possible. I'm going on holiday from Horsham to Kinlochewe next May and am toying up the transport options given I want to take my mountain bike, and it is either daytime train, sleeper train or drive with an overnight stop in both directions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Flying is convenient for speed and price if you can use one of the low cost airlines, but there is the risk of significant delays way longer than you typically get on a train, getting too and from the airport can add considerable time and expense, and taking bulky things like a bicycle is difficult although possible. I'm going on holiday from Horsham to Kinlochewe next May and am toying up the transport options given I want to take my mountain bike, and it is either daytime train, sleeper train or drive with an overnight stop in both directions.

Personally I'd drive that with a stopover. Indeed, I have recently been to Scotland with a bike a couple of times and car was the only option that entered consideration. Long distance rail travel with a bike and luggage is an almighty faff.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Which just says an awful lot about what we're doing wrong when it comes to long distance Rail travel doesn't it.

 

[CW2]

Aberdeen portion of 1S25 cancelled at Edinburgh this morning, apparently due to loco failure. This evening passengers are travelling Aberdeen (and intermediate stations) to Edinburgh by ScotRail services to join the sleeper there.

 

[JamieL]

View attachment 145782

That is referring to one class of room. Where is the marketing saying Classic and Seat are a hotel on wheels?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2023 ==

What exactly is it now marketed as?

A unique way to travel.

 

[PG]

That is referring to one class of room. Where is the marketing saying Classic and Seat are a hotel on wheels?

Interestingly that also describes it as "affordable", which is not something I would have ascribed to the Club rooms...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interestingly that also describes it as "affordable", which is not something I would have ascribed to the Club rooms...

If you consider the price as the combination of a mid-range business hotel and a flight or daytime train, the latter probably in first class if you're talking Club or Double rooms, then it's not that wide of the mark.

 

[Gaelan]

If you consider the price as the combination of a mid-range business hotel and a flight or daytime train, the latter probably in first class if you're talking Club or Double rooms, then it's not that wide of the mark.

I wouldn't describe first class as affordable! I can see the argument somewhat for calling the classic rooms affordable, though only if you'd be paying for a hotel (not a hostel, staying with a friend, or traveling onwards from London the same day).