Caledonian Sleeper

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't describe first class as affordable! I can see the argument somewhat for calling the classic rooms affordable, though only if you'd be paying for a hotel (not a hostel, staying with a friend, or traveling onwards from London the same day).

The comparisons are really:

Seats: overnight road coach
Classic rooms: Standard class train ticket or budget flight plus budget hotel (e.g. Premier Inn)
Club/Double rooms: First class train ticket or BA flight plus mid-range business hotel (e.g. Marriott or Novotel)

The prices do largely stack up to those comparisons-ish, taking into account that CS doesn't aggressively yield manage so doesn't bother with having one room or one seat at a price-dumped lead-in fare unlike budget airlines and hotels.

 

[Christmas]

They might have dropped the rubbish act of pretending to be a hotel on wheels but in my opinion they are still promoting it that way. They still call the berths or cabins 'rooms', (they aren't). They still call passengers 'guests' and tell you that you're 'staying' with them instead of travelling. Marketing nonsense introduced by Serco which is there for all to see.

 

[Blindtraveler]

They might have dropped the rubbish act of pretending to be a hotel on wheels but in my opinion they are still promoting it that way. They still call the berths or cabins 'rooms', (they aren't). They still call passengers 'guests' and tell you that you're 'staying' with them instead of travelling. Marketing nonsense introduced by Serco which is there for all to see.

We are definitely of the same opinion here, just a pity that others have an agenda to push and therefore cannot see the wood for the trees

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm going on holiday from Horsham to Kinlochewe next May and am toying up the transport options given I want to take my mountain bike, and it is either daytime train, sleeper train or drive with an overnight stop in both directions.

Personally I’d drive - simply because the road from Lochluichart to Kinlochewe is one of the best in the country IMHO. However another option is to fly Gatwick to Inverness and hire a bike up there.

(Also, it is drivable in a day, albeit a very long one)

 

[Indigo Soup]

Or maybe an evolution of this would be to charge everyone the equivalent price of a seated passenger which could be subject to delay compensation in the same way as every other train fare and then bill the hotel service element of things such as rooms or meals or anything else they wanted to include as extras which would not be bound by the same terms and conditions but could yet be subject to compensation if they couldn't provide them, as might be expected by any semi-reputable hotel be it a chain or independent

In other words, charge all passengers a rail fare for the journey, and a supplement for use of the sleeping cars... where have I heard that one before?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In other words, charge all passengers a rail fare for the journey, and a supplement for use of the sleeping cars... where have I heard that one before?

GWR interestingly still does price theirs on that model.

 

[Gaelan]

GWR interestingly still does price theirs on that model.

CS does also sell room supplements for those holding tickets (anytimes, rovers, Interrail - but interestingly not seated advances) that would otherwise permit travel in the seated section.

 

[Bletchleyite]

CS does also sell room supplements for those holding tickets (anytimes, rovers, Interrail - but interestingly not seated advances) that would otherwise permit travel in the seated section.

It does, yes, but GWR only sells that way now. If you buy a simple one way ticket on it, it's a combination of a Super Off Peak Single and a berth supplement (which I think are themselves yield managed). There aren't, unlike before, any Sleeper Advances.

 

[Gaelan]

It does, yes, but GWR only sells that way now. If you buy a simple one way ticket on it, it's a combination of a Super Off Peak Single and a berth supplement (which I think are themselves yield managed). There aren't, unlike before, any Sleeper Advances.

Oh, fascinating - I'd have expected advance single + sleeper supplement, but doing it with a flexible single is quite strange.

I suppose one key difference here is that GWR is the primary operator on that route anyway, and thus the ORCATS money goes to them even on a flexible ticket - whereas CS presumably makes much more from a passenger on a seated advance than one on a flexible ticket. (It's all ScotGov at the end of the day, but judging by the English TOCs that doesn't seem to play into it.)

 

[ajrm]

Good to see a new lounge opening but disappointing that again it seems it isn't available to all passengers or even all with rooms.

Indeed. And it perpetuates the nonsense that showers are only available at Euston to those who now have a shower in their cabin, whereas those who don't have access to an onboard shower are barred and have to traipse to King's Cross. When I raised this with CS last summer I was assured that the opening of the new lounge would 'hopefully improve access in the future'. Clearly not!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. And it perpetuates the nonsense that showers are only available at Euston to those who now have a shower in their cabin, whereas those who don't have access to an onboard shower are barred and have to traipse to King's Cross. When I raised this with CS last summer I was assured that the opening of the new lounge would 'hopefully improve access in the future'. Clearly not!

It says on CS's website that you can buy a shower token to use the showers in the new CS lounge if you're in a Classic room.

 

[norbitonflyer]

They still call passengers 'guests' and tell you that you're 'staying' with them instead of travelling. Marketing nonsense introduced by Serco which is there for all to see.

Sometimes passengers have ended up staying rather than travelling - go to bed in Edinburgh, wake up in Edinburgh.

And you're not a guest if you're paying

 

[Bletchleyite]

And you're not a guest if you're paying

Hotels always use the term "guest" and I've never* had one let me stay for nowt!

* OK, I did once call on the Premier Inn "Good Night Guarantee" and got a refund.

 

[Trainbike46]

Oh, fascinating - I'd have expected advance single + sleeper supplement, but doing it with a flexible single is quite strange.

I suppose one key difference here is that GWR is the primary operator on that route anyway, and thus the ORCATS money goes to them even on a flexible ticket - whereas CS presumably makes much more from a passenger on a seated advance than one on a flexible ticket. (It's all ScotGov at the end of the day, but judging by the English TOCs that doesn't seem to play into it.)

The main TOCs with who ORCATS sharing would happen are LNER (Aberdeen, Inverness and Edinburgh to London) and Avanti (Glasgow to London), so while some of the flexible ticket revenue will go to Scotrail (and therefore ScotGov), most of it will go to DfT TOCs

 

[Blindtraveler]

It says on CS's website that you can buy a shower token to use the showers in the new CS lounge if you're in a Classic room.

And I also presume a seat, possibly obtained by using the call bell in the seated carriage of your head and ordering it and paying for it in the same way as you would a cup of tea or a dram

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Nov 2023 ==

In other words, charge all passengers a rail fare for the journey, and a supplement for use of the sleeping cars... where have I heard that one before?

I honestly don't see a problem with this, it makes a lot of sense to me and certainly let down the pressure in the treasury when the proverbial Brown stuff hits the spinning metal things, if you've just paid for a seat then you remain in that seat and they can choose to offer you free drinks or food or whatever at their discretion and you then put in the delay ripe claim as per normal or indeed have it done automatically for you if you've booked directly with them. If you've paid for a room or ordered breakfast or whatever else you still get that room and breakfast and it becomes better value for money if you are all of a sudden granted a long lie or the opportunity to return to bed if you wake up in Preston when you expected to be at helensburgh

 

[Gaelan]

The main TOCs with who ORCATS sharing would happen are LNER (Aberdeen, Inverness and Edinburgh to London) and Avanti (Glasgow to London), so while some of the flexible ticket revenue will go to Scotrail (and therefore ScotGov), most of it will go to DfT TOCs

Oops, of course.

 

[AlbertBeale]

In other words, charge all passengers a rail fare for the journey, and a supplement for use of the sleeping cars... where have I heard that one before?

Isn't that how some of the Austrian sleepers work? You get a travel ticket - price depending on when, etc, ie their equivalent of an Advance or whatever - and then add on a standard amount for a couchette berth or a bed in a single sleeper compartment or a bed in a double, etc... At least that's what it looked like when I last checked out a possible booking with them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't that how some of the Austrian sleepers work? You get a travel ticket - price depending on when, etc, ie their equivalent of an Advance or whatever - and then add on a standard amount for a couchette berth or a bed in a single sleeper compartment or a bed in a double, etc... At least that's what it looked like when I last checked out a possible booking with them.

The European ones were traditionally either "global fare" which is airline style with interavailable TCV* tickets not valid at all, or you used a standard TCV ticket and a fixed supplement on top. Not sure what OeBB do now.

* No idea what this stands for other than that V is almost certainly Voyage or Voyageurs.

 

[paul1609]

Personally I’d drive - simply because the road from Lochluichart to Kinlochewe is one of the best in the country IMHO. However another option is to fly Gatwick to Inverness and hire a bike up there.

(Also, it is drivable in a day, albeit a very long one)

Id also drive go on the A1 both ways to Scotch Corner stop in the North Pennines one way (A66 ish) and Northumberland Coast the other, theres also good options in the Borders. I would say you need a car when you get to Kinlochewe even with a bike and especially if you get wet weather.
The only time you should consider the M6 south of Penrith is when Stainmore is closed by Snow!

 

[Bletchleyite]

IThe only time you should consider the M6 south of Penrith is when Stainmore is closed by Snow!

Shap is utterly spectacular. I love it by both rail and road. The A1 is far more boring, just like the ECML.

 

[Bald Rick]

The only time you should consider the M6 south of Penrith is when Stainmore is closed by Snow!

I disagree. I have had some wonderful drives through lakeland on the M6 at all times of year. Usually after 1900 in the evening southbound, but all times of day northbound.

 

[al78]

I have plenty of time to make my mind up and driving to Kinlochewe is arguably the most logical in terms of tangible cost and practicality (I can bring more luggage for example). I could break the journey overnight with my father in Salford which eliminates the cost of a Premier Inn or similar. The thing that puts me off driving is that it is often like hell on wheels these days, unless you are prepared to travel at silly o clock you are almost guarenteed to hit congestion somewhere at least between the M25 and the Lake District. There is an appeal to having an early evening meal at home, train to Victoria, cycle to Euston, board sleeper, enjoy a drink in the lounge, go to bed and wake up somewhere near Aviemore. Get off the train, pick up a hire car and do a hill walk before checking in to my hotel. The only disadvantage of the sleeper is the high cost (sleeper both ways plus a week's car hire equates to around £1,000 spent on just the transport). A daytime train would be cheaper, it is possible to get from Horsham to Inverness in time for an evening meal and I could split the journey in Edinburgh which might save a bit of money. It is a shame there doesn't seem to be car hire available in the city of Inverness (or I haven't found any) so would have to get to the airport to pick up a hire car.

 

[InOban]

Plenty of car hire in Inverness, although I don't know if any of them will bring a car to the station. Mostly on Harbour Road

 

[ajrm]

It says on CS's website that you can buy a shower token to use the showers in the new CS lounge if you're in a Classic room.

I'm struggling to find that: all I can see is a page which quotes one price for using the shower in the Avanti lounge and another higher price for using CS's own lounges. There's nothing on the Euston lounge page which just says clearly that entry is restricted. (Either way it's news to me about shower tokens; this is something that CS have kept very quiet).

 

[Gaelan]

I have plenty of time to make my mind up and driving to Kinlochewe is arguably the most logical in terms of tangible cost and practicality (I can bring more luggage for example). I could break the journey overnight with my father in Salford which eliminates the cost of a Premier Inn or similar. The thing that puts me off driving is that it is often like hell on wheels these days, unless you are prepared to travel at silly o clock you are almost guarenteed to hit congestion somewhere at least between the M25 and the Lake District. There is an appeal to having an early evening meal at home, train to Victoria, cycle to Euston, board sleeper, enjoy a drink in the lounge, go to bed and wake up somewhere near Aviemore. Get off the train, pick up a hire car and do a hill walk before checking in to my hotel. The only disadvantage of the sleeper is the high cost (sleeper both ways plus a week's car hire equates to around £1,000 spent on just the transport). A daytime train would be cheaper, it is possible to get from Horsham to Inverness in time for an evening meal and I could split the journey in Edinburgh which might save a bit of money. It is a shame there doesn't seem to be car hire available in the city of Inverness (or I haven't found any) so would have to get to the airport to pick up a hire car.

If you don't need a car anyway, I'd be tempted to consider cycling from Achnasheen station (on the Kyle line; connecting off the sleeper gets you in 10:18). The cycle would be about about 9 miles along a road, but difficult to judge from a map how busy the road is.

Clearly not the most practical option (among other things, it restricts your luggage to what you can carry on your bike) - but if you're wanting a biking holiday, might be fun.

 

[kingqueen]

The southbound Highlander did its shunting at Carstairs rather than Edinburgh this morning due to problems with electric supply. Currently running +85.

 

[Caleb2010]

Plenty of car hire in Inverness, although I don't know if any of them will bring a car to the station. Mostly on Harbour Road

I’ve seen car hires being handed over in the station car park at Invernes.

 

[JamieL]

I'm struggling to find that: all I can see is a page which quotes one price for using the shower in the Avanti lounge and another higher price for using CS's own lounges. There's nothing on the Euston lounge page which just says clearly that entry is restricted. (Either way it's news to me about shower tokens; this is something that CS have kept very quiet).

The information is in the Q&A section:

Shower Tokens

For guests traveling in our seated coach or classic rooms and would like to freshen up before your journey, you can purchase a shower token for £10 from our lounges in Fort William and Inverness.

During Your Trip

Read our Help and Support pages for everything you need to know while travelling with Caledonian Sleeper, including our hints and tips and all information about our accommodation.

www.sleeper.scot

 

[31160]

I’ve seen car hires being handed over in the station car park at Invernes.

Yep definitely does happen thats where we picked up a car,we were met off the beds and then drove around the NC 500

 

[Butts]

Plenty of car hire in Inverness, although I don't know if any of them will bring a car to the station. Mostly on Harbour Road

Arnold Clark in Harbour Road Inverness.

When we have flown into Inverness they collect you in a minibus from the Airport so I'm sure they'd do it at the Station.

Be warned Car hire prices have rocketed since the pandemic, but they were always cheaper than the big boys.