Caledonian Sleeper

[driverd]

I think it's quite difficult to scale expectations for this service. You're trying to sell, what is fair to describe as, a luxury train experience - yet its by no means a luxury hotel room (maybe more luxury hostel).

The problem, as I see it, is the disparity between the quality of the finish (even if it is a bit CAF), and the actual size of the accommodation. For instance, a full, exclusive, bar car is unique to the sleeper and quite luxurious. The staff to customer ratio gives a (generally) uniquely attentive service. A personal toilet and shower is totally unique. Little extras like pillow spray and shoe polishing machines fitted in the train are totally a unique level of luxury, not provided elsewhere.

Yet all this aside, you get a very pokey room, with (atleast in my recent experiences) a very tired matress, riding on firm suspension and some jointed track, upon which you're expecting to be able to get a decent night's sleep.

I wonder how other members would push the marketing, to avoid disappointing Prue?

 

[alistairlees]

You shouldn't believe everything you read in the papers...

 

[BRX]

She's talking complete nonsense isn't she?

"Writing in The Oldie, Leith claimed that the couple were given a bunk bed compartment, which led to her crashing to the floor in the middle of the night.

When she and John Playfair, her husband, complained, they were told it was a “common misunderstanding” that booking a “double” means a double bed to share. It does not. In the Caledonian Sleeper world it means bunk beds, albeit with a sink in the corner."

This is what she would have been shown during the booking process. If someone else booked it for her, then it's them who misled her, not CS.

 

[Phil Atack]

She's talking complete nonsense isn't she?

"Writing in The Oldie, Leith claimed that the couple were given a bunk bed compartment, which led to her crashing to the floor in the middle of the night.

When she and John Playfair, her husband, complained, they were told it was a “common misunderstanding” that booking a “double” means a double bed to share. It does not. In the Caledonian Sleeper world it means bunk beds, albeit with a sink in the corner."

This is what she would have been shown during the booking process. If someone else booked it for her, then it's them who misled her, not CS.

View attachment 139808

...and the ladder is permanently fixed so the person in the bottom bunk has to limbo into bed.

 

[cambran]

But she says this was not the room she booked, so I assume she would have seen and booked the double. The bunks look unsuitable for an 83 year old and surely Caledonian Sleeper should have taken this into consideration before moving her

 

[AlterEgo]

But she says this was not the room she booked, so I assume she would have seen and booked the double. The bunks look unsuitable for an 83 year old and surely Caledonian Sleeper should have taken this into consideration before moving her

Read the article, that isn’t correct at all.

 

[Clydeflyer]

But burning question is did she and her husband arrive early and were they 'encouraged' to disembark early or did she stay put right up to the "vacate rooms by" time...

 

[norbitonflyer]

She's talking complete nonsense isn't she?

"Writing in The Oldie, Leith claimed that the couple were given a bunk bed compartment, which led to her crashing to the floor in the middle of the night.

When she and John Playfair, her husband, complained, they were told it was a “common misunderstanding” that booking a “double” means a double bed to share. It does not. In the Caledonian Sleeper world it means bunk beds, albeit with a sink in the corner."

This is what she would have been shown during the booking process. If someone else booked it for her, then it's them who misled her, not CS.

View attachment 139808

Something doesn't seem right in her acount - I would expect all Caledonian staff would know that a Double meant a proper double bed.
If she had to be downgraded from a double to a twin (i.e bunk) for some reason, that should have been explained to her (and a suitable refund given). But

I agree the rungs on the ladders are far too thin to be used in bare feet.

Have CS issued a public response to her article?

 

[JamieL]

...and the ladder is permanently fixed so the person in the bottom bunk has to limbo into bed.

The ladder unclips very easily. Granted there is a sign saying don't do it, but I always do (and always put it back as well!).

 

[theironroad]

The ladder unclips very easily. Granted there is a sign saying don't do it, but I always do (and always put it back as well!).

Same.

 

[cambran]

Read the article, that isn’t correct at all.

Please don't make condescending comments without checking different sources
This is from the Daily Telegraph ;

On arrival, we were told our room was unavailable, but they’d managed to find us an identical one. It turned out not to be a double bed or even twins, but two super-narrow bunks, one above the other.”

Access Restricted

 

[norbitonflyer]

Please don't make condescending comments without checking different sources
This is from the Daily Telegraph ;

On arrival, we were told our room was unavailable, but they’d managed to find us an identical one. It turned out not to be a double bed or even twins, but two super-narrow bunks, one above the other.”

Access Restricted

So something is wrong - either she hadn't booked a double in the first place (although she may have thought she had), or the replacement compartment was not identical (in which case she shouldn't have been told it was). Given each portion only has three doubles, including the accessible one, it is unlikely a spare double would be available.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2023 ==

The ladder unclips very easily. Granted there is a sign saying don't do it, but I always do (and always put it back as well!).

And indeed, the presence of the sign is itself an ibndication that it is possible to unclip it.

(reminds me of the episode in "The Young Ones" where Vyvyan sees the sign telling him not to lean out of the train window which, Vyvyan being Vyvyan, inspires him to do exactly that).

Some of the newspaper reports suggest she "fell in her heels" whilst scaling the ladder, which suggests she went to bed in high-heeled shoes. The quote actually says "I tried to come down with my back to the bunks, but my heels slipped off the ladder". (The heels of her feet, not her shoes) - which is exactly why you are always advised to face a ladder when using it, so your instep can engage the rungs.

 

[BRX]

It's not exactly clear what she means when she talks about sleeper beds "60 years ago" being wider - is she talking about regular sleeper trains or the Royal Scotsman which also seems to get mentioned, and is a luxury tourist train that costs a lot more than £195 per person per night.

Royal Scotsman Luxury Cabins | Scotland Unique Trains

Step aboard the Royal Scotsman’s luxury cabins and Grand Suites. Our accommodations uphold an unmatched reputation among Scotland trains.

www.belmond.com

 

[AngusH]

Since she was actually on the board of British Rail as a non-executive director from ~1977 which was around the time of ordering the mk3 sleepers I suspect that she may have some knowledge of the topic.

 

[AlterEgo]

Please don't make condescending comments without checking different sources
This is from the Daily Telegraph ;

On arrival, we were told our room was unavailable, but they’d managed to find us an identical one. It turned out not to be a double bed or even twins, but two super-narrow bunks, one above the other.”

Access Restricted

As per the Times article:

The steward explained: ‘This is a common misunderstanding. People think double means double bed, but it means two beds. This is exactly the same as the one you booked.’ ”

And the article you just quoted, just one sentence later:

The steward told her and her husband after they complained that it was a “common misunderstanding” that a double room on the sleeper really meant two bunks

She didn’t book a double bed. As she said the steward explained, she actually booked a double berth which has bunk beds; that is very clear, and she explains she was given an identical cabin. So why, if you read the articles, you thought:

But she says this was not the room she booked, so I assume she would have seen and booked the double.

And

The bunks look unsuitable for an 83 year old and surely Caledonian Sleeper should have taken this into consideration before moving her

…is beyond me.

Prue simply booked the wrong room. She never had a double bed. It’s plain as day, as she herself wrote; they are quoting her from the magazine.

 

[RichA]

Likewise with the ladder when I travel alone (frequenty). First thing I do is unclip it and place it on its edge on the floor against the wall, then, taking the mattress from the vacant upper bunk drop this on top of the lower one, you then have a very comfortable sleeping area. I always put everything back as I found it as I would feel bad for the cleaners if they had to do it.

 

[Essexman]

But she says this was not the room she booked, so I assume she would have seen and booked the double. The bunks look unsuitable for an 83 year old and surely Caledonian Sleeper should have taken this into consideration before moving her

I often wonder how some of the older, less mobile or larger passengers manage in the double berths and are there passengers who book but find they can't actually get in or out of the bed?

 

[Lancs]

Are there not rooms with connecting doors? Two bottoms bunks would have been a much better solution!

 

[Bald Rick]

Are there not rooms with connecting doors? Two bottoms bunks would have been a much better solution!

There are some, but given that the sleeper sells out (or nearly so) most nights, it’s unlikely that two adjacent rooms with connecting doors were available. Especially as they are ‘classic’ and not the ‘club’ Ms Leith paid for.

 

[Energy]

And the article you just quoted, just one sentence later:

The steward told her and her husband after they complained that it was a “common misunderstanding” that a double room on the sleeper really meant two bunks

She didn’t book a double bed. As she said the steward explained, she actually booked a double berth which has bunk beds; that is very clear, and she explains she was given an identical cabin. So why, if you read the articles, you thought:

A double room on the sleeper is a double bed, the bunk bed rooms are just normal rooms. If she (or whoever booked it) did it by phone then the CS staff should have made it clear that it was two bunks, of course they might have and she didn't realise.

There are some, but given that the sleeper sells out (or nearly so) most nights,

Still surprises me, it generally doesn't come across brilliantly in trip reports. The novelty of it must be keeping it going, or regular customers who've gotten used to the ride!

 

[Bald Rick]

Still surprises me, it generally doesn't come across brilliantly in trip reports. The novelty of it must be keeping it going, or regular customers who've gotten used to the ride!

As ever, trip reports will have a higher proportion of people who have had an issue or like finding faults. Those for whom it met expectations will be largely silent, especially those who use it a lot.

 

[Davester50]

Wonder why they got rid of Highland Spring for some other supplier, considering they push the local Scottish produce angle.
They do need to replace the mattresses though. Absolutely zero cushioning on the last Classic berth I had last month.

Still surprises me, it generally doesn't come across brilliantly in trip reports. The novelty of it must be keeping it going, or regular customers who've gotten used to the ride!

There's a fad element. Night train usage across Europe has taken off, plus the post covid travel demand hasn't abated yet.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Nobody seems to have picked up on the other point from reading that article.

It sounds like her husband took the bottom bunk for himself and she was in the top one, which she appears to have found difficult.

Was that her choice, or was he showing a distinct lack of manners...?!

 

[AlterEgo]

A double room on the sleeper is a double bed, the bunk bed rooms are just normal rooms. If she (or whoever booked it) did it by phone then the CS staff should have made it clear that it was two bunks, of course they might have and she didn't realise.

She more likely booked through an agency or station ticket office I think, I doubt the CS staff would refer to it as a double.

Still surprises me, it generally doesn't come across brilliantly in trip reports. The novelty of it must be keeping it going, or regular customers who've gotten used to the ride!

Lots of foreign tourist money on the Inverness and Fort William portions!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2023 ==

As ever, trip reports will have a higher proportion of people who have had an issue or like finding faults. Those for whom it met expectations will be largely silent, especially those who use it a lot.

Yes. The sleeper is objectively good for most normies. I found several faults but even so, most people who like their trains will still enjoy the Caledonian Sleeper.

 

[GS250]

The Caledonian sleeper is fit for purpose. My parents enjoyed it as did I. Its marketed as a hotel on wheels but is probably more Ramada Inn than The Ritz.

Those expecting the Rocky Mountaineer, Blue Train or Palace on wheels will be disappointed of course.

 

[Energy]

As ever, trip reports will have a higher proportion of people who have had an issue or like finding faults. Those for whom it met expectations will be largely silent, especially those who use it a lot.

Fair enough, not dissimilar to people trying business class but usually fly economy or the "new tv" effect in which the new tv looks incredible because the customers only reference is their old one.

Going by the full rooms they must be doing enough right.

She more likely booked through an agency or station ticket office I think, I doubt the CS staff would refer to it as a double.

Booking through an agency would make sense.

 

[driverd]

They do need to replace the mattresses though. Absolutely zero cushioning on the last Classic berth I had last month.

I've had the exact same experience on my last 4 trips - the same through classic, club and double (no, I didn't pay £400 - just got very lucky when I cheekily asked for an upgrade when my booked berth wasn't available).

If you've not done so already, I'd absolutely feedback via the appropriate channels - the more people raise this, the more likely it is to get sorted.

 

[Davester50]

I've had the exact same experience on my last 4 trips - the same through classic, club and double (no, I didn't pay £400 - just got very lucky when I cheekily asked for an upgrade when my booked berth wasn't available).

If you've not done so already, I'd absolutely feedback via the appropriate channels - the more people raise this, the more likely it is to get sorted.

Fair point, but to be honest, I couldn't give them much more detail as I don't really keep tickets once they're used.
I was on the verge of taking the top berth mattress off and doubling up it was that uncomfortable!

 

[soup6]

It's not exactly clear what she means when she talks about sleeper beds "60 years ago" being wider - is she talking about regular sleeper trains or the Royal Scotsman which also seems to get mentioned, and is a luxury tourist train that costs a lot more than £195 per person per night.

Royal Scotsman Luxury Cabins | Scotland Unique Trains

Step aboard the Royal Scotsman’s luxury cabins and Grand Suites. Our accommodations uphold an unmatched reputation among Scotland trains.

www.belmond.com

The first class beds in (at least some of) the MK1 sleepers of 60 years ago were wider than the Mk3 and current offerings and also wider than the Mk1 second class beds.

 

[greatkingrat]

Nobody seems to have picked up on the other point from reading that article.

It sounds like her husband took the bottom bunk for himself and she was in the top one, which she appears to have found difficult.

Was that her choice, or was he showing a distinct lack of manners...?!

She said her husband was recovering from a knee operation, so I think the problem was neither of them were able to get into the top bunk easily.