Caledonian Sleeper

[JamieL]

If the ticket says depart 07:31 is it fair to kick people out over 30 minutes before ?.

Especially if that impacts on their sleep ?.

The train does not leave early if it arrives early. It seems it is the staff who get to leave early - how is that allowed by management ?.

I doubt the staff are on amazing wages and have inevitably been up all night working - why shouldn't they be allowed to leave early if the train gets in ahead of time? Do you expect (for example) First Class staff on an early-arriving Avanti* to hang around at London or Glasgow because you decide you want to continue sitting at your seat until the allotted time? Inevitably, such staff are packed and walking to the front of the train on approach to those stations.

* I appreciate this is probably rarerer than a unicorn!

 

[Peter Sarf]

I doubt the staff are on amazing wages and have inevitably been up all night working - why shouldn't they be allowed to leave early if the train gets in ahead of time? Do you expect (for example) First Class staff on an early-arriving Avanti* to hang around at London or Glasgow because you decide you want to continue sitting at your seat until the allotted time? Inevitably, such staff are packed and walking to the front of the train on approach to those stations.

* I appreciate this is probably rarerer than a unicorn!

Better make that clear in all the publicity then.

EDIT
Moved to a later post as added later and not saved before the following reply.

 

[JamieL]

Better make that clear in all the publicity then.

In my experience, it is understood by the vast majority who use the CS given that the vast bulk of passengers detrain upon arrival. If a handful of 'super entitled' passengers are so outraged by not being indulged, to such an extent they never come back, then I think that is a bonus that ultimately benefits the majority of perfectly reasonable customers and staff using the CS.

 

[Davester50]

I doubt the staff are on amazing wages and have inevitably been up all night working - why shouldn't they be allowed to leave early if the train gets in ahead of time?

It's not a problem if it doesn't affect what CS have advertised to the public.
On the other hand, if it does, then tough.

In my experience, it is understood by the vast majority who use the CS given that the vast bulk of passengers detrain upon arrival. If a handful of 'super entitled' passengers are so outraged by not being indulged, to such an extent they never come back, then I think that is a bonus that ultimately benefits the majority of perfectly reasonable customers and staff using the CS.

Asking for what's promised is now super entitled, is it? Again, LOL.

 

[Peter Sarf]

In my experience, it is understood by the vast majority who use the CS given that the vast bulk of passengers detrain upon arrival. If a handful of 'super entitled' passengers are so outraged by not being indulged, to such an extent they never come back, then I think that is a bonus that ultimately benefits the majority of perfectly reasonable customers and staff using the CS.

Hmm. That seems to be the problem then. Like it or lump it. Hope you don't get too much bad publicity.

To be fair there is not much scope for other train services to arrive so early. Therefore comparison with Avanti is not easy (even ignoring the rarity factor). People are generally used to arriving and alighting on time or late - not early. It needs to be clear in all places the sleeper arrival etc times are quoted that early arrival means early exit from the train. The alternative is to ensure staff are there for the (contracted ?) hours. Either way it is currently bad practice not to manage the expectation customers have.

Would be so easy to make it clear rather than hoping no one notices or cares.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jul 2023 ==

It's not a problem if it doesn't affect what CS have advertised to the public.
On the other hand, if it does, then tough.


Asking for what's promised is now super entitled, is it? Again, LOL.

Well quite, you beat me to it.

 

[GordonT]

Because it is a train.

Unfortunately CS's advertising hype has had a tendency to be in denial about train constraints. So it seems unreasonable to blame the punters for going along with what they've been promised in the hype rather than the marketeers for over the top puffery.

 

[Essexman]

I tend to set my alarm for just before arrival in Euston, so won't be ready to get out on arrival if the train is early.
I don't deliberately wait until the latest advertised time but nor do I consider that the train running early should impact on my already shortened sleep. Is that unreasonable?
I would be less likely to use the Lowlander if regularly asked to vacate before the advertised time.

 

[JamieL]

Unfortunately CS's advertising hype has had a tendency to be in denial about train constraints. So it seems unreasonable to blame the punters for going along with what they've been promised in the hype rather than the marketeers for over the top puffery.

The thing is, most punters seem to act quite happily within the constraints!

 

[Flying Snail]

The thing is, most punters seem to act quite happily within the constraints!

Would you ever give over with this nonsense.

It is clearly stated on their timetables that there is an arrival time AND a later room vacate time, just as there is a set time for room availability up to 1h40 before departure time.

Timetable Detail

View all timetables for Caledonian Sleeper services for routes between London and Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and Fort William.

www.sleeper.scot

It is ridiculous to expect that Guests will alter their wake up time if the train happens to run early.

 

[JamieL]

Would you ever give over with this nonsense.

It is clearly stated on their timetables that there is an arrival time AND a later room vacate time, just as there is a set time for room availability up to 1h40 before departure time.

Timetable Detail

View all timetables for Caledonian Sleeper services for routes between London and Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and Fort William.

www.sleeper.scot

It is ridiculous to expect that Guests will alter their wake up time if the train happens to run early.

And yet people do...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would you ever give over with this nonsense.

It is clearly stated on their timetables that there is an arrival time AND a later room vacate time, just as there is a set time for room availability up to 1h40 before departure time.

Timetable Detail

View all timetables for Caledonian Sleeper services for routes between London and Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and Fort William.

www.sleeper.scot

It is ridiculous to expect that Guests will alter their wake up time if the train happens to run early.

It's probably not entirely unreasonable for there to be a "Good morning, we will be arriving at our destination in thirty minutes" announcement, removing the need for an alarm to be set based on a varying time. This is what ferries do. However I'll repeat the key point I have made on this - it is unacceptable to advertise a vacate time then not deliver it, just as it'd be unacceptable for Premier Inn to advertise a noon checkout then be hassling you to get out by ten. It is very, very important to set honest expectations in all advertising (the timetable is both advertising and the basis of the contract) - indeed, not doing so can be a criminal offence.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jul 2023 ==

And yet people do...

More likely a lot of them didn't sleep deeply because of the infernal racket

 

[Davester50]

Unfortunately CS's advertising hype has had a tendency to be in denial about train constraints. So it seems unreasonable to blame the punters for going along with what they've been promised in the hype rather than the marketeers for over the top puffery.

3.0 with 63 Terrible and 46 Poor reviews from a total of 221 on Trip Advisor is telling.

Would you ever give over with this nonsense.

It is clearly stated on their timetables that there is an arrival time AND a later room vacate time, just as there is a set time for room availability up to 1h40 before departure time.

And has been so for decades before Caledonian Sleeper existed as well.
1982 timetable for the Edinburgh equivalent of the Lowlander has 06:04 arrival, with vacate berths after 07:00

 

[robert thomas]

3.0 with 63 Terrible and 46 Poor reviews from a total of 221 on Trip Advisor is telling.


And has been so for decades before Caledonian Sleeper existed as well.
1982 timetable for the Edinburgh equivalent of the Lowlander has 06:04 arrival, with vacate berths after 07:00

The fact that the service is normally booked out would sem to indicate that most people are happy with it. Would you try to stay on an aircraft that arrived 30 minutes early? Having said that a ferry style announcement would seem sensible.

 

[alistairlees]

Travelling on the Edinburgh to Euston sleeper service recently, and running around 40 minutes early, there was indeed an anouncement over the tannoy (somewhere between Milton Keynes and Watford J) that the train was running early and was expected to arrive at Euston early. As I have mentioned before, there was no pressure (or request) to leave the train earlier than the advertised time (of disembarking).

 

[Davester50]

The fact that the service is normally booked out would sem to indicate that most people are happy with it.

Not really. There's a trend for travelling on night trains as an experience. You just need to look over to the mainland and see the amount of sleepers have increased greatly. It's no surprise that this has meant an increased use here too.

Would you try to stay on an aircraft that arrived 30 minutes early? Having said that a ferry style announcement would seem sensible.

Can you point me to 1) how many fully enclosed en-suite beds are on aircraft, and 2) how many airlines advertise a disembarkation time, let alone one which is after the arrival time?
I've been lucky to have flown Club and First on BA, and even their latest incarnations with provided PJs in First they haven't got "rooms" despite being branded suites and having doors.

 

[andythebrave]

The repetitive defence by some users of the practice of enforcing early vacation of berths however frequent it is is utterly ridiculous and really amounts to either persistent trolling or a wilful failure to comprehend the possibility that they may be wrong.
It keeps on coming up and is, quite frankly, getting boring.

 

[Falcon1200]

I doubt the staff are on amazing wages and have inevitably been up all night working - why shouldn't they be allowed to leave early if the train gets in ahead of time?

Because CS advertise that passengers may remain on board until a specified time, regardless of when the train actually arrives, and because the staff are being paid for a full shift. But, should all passengers detrain as soon as the train arrives, there would no problem with the staff finishing then.

If a handful of 'super entitled' passengers are so outraged by not being indulged, to such an extent they never come back...

Passengers expecting CS to abide by the service they advertise are not 'super entitled'; Rather, that is any staff who think they can chuck passengers off to give them an early finish.

 

[STINT47]

When considering if I want to take a sleeper (train or ferry) part of my decision will be based on the amount of sleep time that I can get.

If the departure is late at night and the arrival early the next morning then I fear that I will not get enough sleep and will spend the next day fatigued.

I do therefore look carefully at the times you can board and the time you need to leave by when deciding if I want to book. If I was then to be told to exit earlier than advertised I would certainly not be happy and feel that there would be grounds for a compliant.

 

[cb a1]

I used the CS lowlander at the end of June. We got into Euston maybe 30 to 40 minutes early. I disembarked when we arrived as I was awake and already dressed. I headed up to the lounge to wait for my colleague who was also on the train. They met me in the lounge about 40 minutes later. They hadn't been asked to disembark early.

 

[JamieL]

I used the CS lowlander at the end of June. We got into Euston maybe 30 to 40 minutes early. I disembarked when we arrived as I was awake and already dressed. I headed up to the lounge to wait for my colleague who was also on the train. They met me in the lounge about 40 minutes later. They hadn't been asked to disembark early.

I think there is very little evidence people are encouraged to leave early. It generally just seems to be a perceived bugbear of this forum, I suspect from non-users/rare users of the service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think there is very little evidence people are encouraged to leave early. It generally just seems to be a perceived bugbear of this forum, I suspect from non-users/rare users of the service.

I believe the term for that is "gaslighting", i.e. denying lived experience, I'm not entirely sure why you keep doing it. You not having experienced it (when you say yourself you always alight on arrival and thus can't have) doesn't evidence that others haven't.

 

[Davester50]

I think there is very little evidence people are encouraged to leave early. It generally just seems to be a perceived bugbear of this forum, I suspect from non-users/rare users of the service.

Jamie, you either have a personal attachment to CS, be it through a relation working there, or you yourself are a CS employee, but the continual cheerleading for CS is tiresome.
Numerous people have reported this happening, and you always alight on arrival, so are never around to see it.

If you're calling me a liar, just say it.

 

[JamieL]

Jamie, you either have a personal attachment to CS, be it through a relation working there, or you yourself are a CS employee, but the continual cheerleading for CS is tiresome.
Numerous people have reported this happening, and you always alight on arrival, so are never around to see it.

I neither work there, nor know anybody who works there. My experience is as a semi-regular user of the service and, frankly, a lot of the negative comments on the thread don't really chime with what I see. And, when challenged, people have always been a little light on details.

 

[matt]

I think we are going round in circles here on the disembarking times. Can we all move on to discuss other aspects of the service. Thanks.

 

[MrJeeves]

Been on the sleeper tonight from Euston to Glasgow, seated with my friend as part of our RailSail trip to Belfast, and it was a pretty nice experience overall. Had a Scottish crew, which were lovely, unlike the stories of London-based crews in this thread!

I didn't get much shut-eye, but that was because I was working on my laptop a lot of the time instead of trying to doze off!

My friend had the haggis for dinner, which was lovely, while I had chips which were rather dry and inedible in my opinion.

The seats are more comfortable than I expected for relatively new coaching stock. The only negative of the sleeper I could think of is the distinct lack of bins for our rubbish after we ate.

In the morning, I got two hot drinks from the club car, and the staff gave them to be complimentary, which I thought was nice. As far as I'm aware, you are supposed to be charged for hot drinks in the seated area (and maybe berths too?).

All in all, for one leg of out £75 return journeys, it was about as good as I would expect... though next time I'd rather use a TADA discount on a berth!

 

[Norther Monkey]

Been on the sleeper tonight from Euston to Glasgow, seated.......

The seats are more comfortable than I expected for relatively new coaching stock.

Seat comfort is definitely subjective. The new seats are one of the reasons I largely gave up on the sleeper for my weekly London-Aberdeen commute.

 

[Trainbike46]

Been on the sleeper tonight from Euston to Glasgow, seated with my friend as part of our RailSail trip to Belfast, and it was a pretty nice experience overall. Had a Scottish crew, which were lovely, unlike the stories of London-based crews in this thread!

I didn't get much shut-eye, but that was because I was working on my laptop a lot of the time instead of trying to doze off!

My friend had the haggis for dinner, which was lovely, while I had chips which were rather dry and inedible in my opinion.

The seats are more comfortable than I expected for relatively new coaching stock. The only negative of the sleeper I could think of is the distinct lack of bins for our rubbish after we ate.

In the morning, I got two hot drinks from the club car, and the staff gave them to be complimentary, which I thought was nice. As far as I'm aware, you are supposed to be charged for hot drinks in the seated area (and maybe berths too?).

All in all, for one leg of out £75 return journeys, it was about as good as I would expect... though next time I'd rather use a TADA discount on a berth!

Welcome to Belfast!

 

[Gonzoiku]

All in all, for one leg of out £75 return journeys, it was about as good as I would expect... though next time I'd rather use a TADA discount on a berth!

TADA?

 

[MrJeeves]

Welcome to Belfast!

Ah that's this evening :P

TADA?

Travel Agent Discount Authority — 45% discounts allocated to accredited retailers based on their ticket sales

 

[island]

Safe to say Prue Leith isn't a fan...

Prue Leith: ‘Dire’ Caledonian Sleeper train serves ‘miserable food’

Great British Bake Off presenter as bemoans bunk beds on train service in scathing review of her journey

www.thetimes.co.uk

It is billed as an idyllic, relaxing and sophisticated way to travel between London and the highlands of Scotland.

But for Prue Leith and her husband their trip on the Caledonian Sleeper couldn’t have been more different as she complained of a litany of calamities.

Leith branded the “much-trumpeted” train as a “crashing disappointment” after her overnight trip.