Caledonian Sleeper

[Siemens Trains]

The cheapest ‘first class’ (Club) cabin available for London - Glasgow between now and the end of September is £235, available on three dates: the last Monday in each of August and September, plus Weds Sep 20th. The more typical price is £290. This is (almost) the price per room, ie two travelling together lay only a little more.

As to the question about food and drink - theres a free breakfast and use of the lounge before departure. I wouldn’t expect a free evening meal and booze before I go to my room for the night in the same way I don’t expect that at a Premier Inn or Claridges.

I suppose there's the point that if you can afford the first class fare then a few more quid for a meal and drink shouldn't trouble your finances. With Caledonian Sleeper there's the further argument that taxpayers subsidise every passenger, even those travelling first class.
Obviously this is quite a simplification but you can imagine some folk being critical of providing lavish complimentary hospitality.

 

[Butts]

I suppose there's the point that if you can afford the first class fare then a few more quid for a meal and drink shouldn't trouble your finances. With Caledonian Sleeper there's the further argument that taxpayers subsidise every passenger, even those travelling first class.
Obviously this is quite a simplification but you can imagine some folk being critical of providing lavish complimentary hospitality.

is that not true of LNER and Avanti as well ? - at least to an extent.

 

[MrJeeves]

What does the breakfast consist of ?

Performing some research of your own may answer this...

Nonetheless: https://www.sleeper.scot/menu-overview/menus/breakfast-menu/

Double and Club guests get the choice between various free breakfast items:

• Porridge
• Bacon Roll
• Sausage (plant based or not) Roll
• Granola Yoghurt
• "traditional Scottish breakfast"
• smoked salmon omelette with avocado & sourdough, or
• a traditional vegan breakfast

 

[Butts]

Performing some research of your own may answer this...

Nonetheless: https://www.sleeper.scot/menu-overview/menus/breakfast-menu/

Double and Club guests get the choice between various free breakfast items:

• Porridge
• Bacon Roll
• Sausage (plant based or not) Roll
• Granola Yoghurt
• "traditional Scottish breakfast"
• smoked salmon omelette with avocado & sourdough, or
• a traditional vegan breakfast

Can you have 2 bacon rolls ?

 

[MrJeeves]

Can you have 2 bacon rolls ?

If there are two of you, presumably! Otherwise, perhaps if you ask nicely.

 

[JamieL]

What does the breakfast consist of ?

There are a range of options and the menu can be found online. Overall, its a pretty good offering food wise - the menu items are complimented by toast on demand, fruit juice, tea/coffee etc.

 

[47296lastduff]

I had the Scottish breakfast last year. Even though I turned up at my booked time, the breakfast was dried up and horrible. I was not offered any extras like juice or toast. I did request a second cup of tea, to the obvious amazement of the server, but he did bring one.

 

[Mike395]

I find the Scottish breakfast varies from ‘actually quite tasty’ to ‘terrible’ - not sure if the variable is the crew reheating it or how long it’s been since initial preparation, but I tend to avoid it now in favour of the omelette that I find reliably good.

 

[lachlan]

You do also get a free hot or cold drink of choice and a cereal bar if you’re in the cheaper rooms, served to the room.

I wouldn’t expect a full breakfast for free but it’s nice to have the hot drink as that’s something I would expect from a hotel

 

[Bletchleyite]

You do also get a free hot or cold drink of choice and a cereal bar if you’re in the cheaper rooms, served to the room.

I wouldn’t expect a full breakfast for free but it’s nice to have the hot drink as that’s something I would expect from a hotel

TBH I would prefer it being chargeable and the fare slightly cheaper accordingly, I don't really want breakfast that early, I'd rather arrive and find a decent cafe for a proper one. The only exception being the Fort William with its relatively late arrival, though Morrisons is just outside the station and does a decent fry-up all day so I'd probably hang on for that!

 

[Blindtraveler]

And the station cafe on fort William station is really good as well, I ate there at the start of the year having done a red eye CityLink coach from Glasgow, ironically to meet a friend who had come up on the beds

 

[trebor79]

TBH I would prefer it being chargeable and the fare slightly cheaper accordingly, I don't really want breakfast that early, I'd rather arrive and find a decent cafe for a proper one. The only exception being the Fort William with its relatively late arrival, though Morrisons is just outside the station and does a decent fry-up all day so I'd probably hang on for that!

Is the cafe still there at Fort William station? I remember having a pretty good fry up there when I did the sleeper in Mk3 days.

 

[lachlan]

TBH I would prefer it being chargeable and the fare slightly cheaper accordingly, I don't really want breakfast that early, I'd rather arrive and find a decent cafe for a proper one. The only exception being the Fort William with its relatively late arrival, though Morrisons is just outside the station and does a decent fry-up all day so I'd probably hang on for that!

I suppose it depends on how much it costs them to provide it - I would guess it’s very little.

Have you asked them not to wake you up? They did wake us up quite early

 

[Iskra]

I've always found the Scottish breakfast quite good. The current breakfast offering is way better than the Mk3 days. Smoked salmon and tepid scrambled egg being the best they could muster back then, with the microwaved full English served then being the same as served in police custody according to some...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2023 ==

TBH I would prefer it being chargeable and the fare slightly cheaper accordingly, I don't really want breakfast that early, I'd rather arrive and find a decent cafe for a proper one. The only exception being the Fort William with its relatively late arrival, though Morrisons is just outside the station and does a decent fry-up all day so I'd probably hang on for that!

You know if they did that, the fare wouldn't go down...

The current offering makes it similar to what most hotels offer so makes sense to me.

 

[Kite159]

And the station cafe on fort William station is really good as well, I ate there at the start of the year having done a red eye CityLink coach from Glasgow, ironically to meet a friend who had come up on the beds

And it did look good, shows that even if you don't get a breakfast on the sleeper there is normally options available close to the station. Even if it's a Spoons

 

[Bletchleyite]

And it did look good, shows that even if you don't get a breakfast on the sleeper there is normally options available close to the station. Even if it's a Spoons

Or McD's if that's your thing. I am quite partial to a double sausage and egg. Though the Maccies closest to Edinburgh Waverley is about the roughest place I know (though the one near Liverpool Central has to be close).

 

[ascadding]

Or McD's if that's your thing. I am quite partial to a double sausage and egg. Though the Maccies closest to Edinburgh Waverley is about the roughest place I know (though the one near Liverpool Central has to be close).

My only - albeit minor - issue with the Sleeper breakfast is it seems to be among the last places left that serves tea and coffee with those awful UHT cartons...surely at these prices they can get a few pints of fresh milk in the fridge - it won't go sour from Euston!

 

[Sleepy]

I had the Scottish breakfast last year. Even though I turned up at my booked time, the breakfast was dried up and horrible. I was not offered any extras like juice or toast. I did request a second cup of tea, to the obvious amazement of the server, but he did bring one.

Sorry but if your paying the price for premium cabins then being stingy about 2nd cup of tea really isn't good enough IMO ??

 

[JamieL]

Sorry but if your paying the price for premium cabins then being stingy about 2nd cup of tea really isn't good enough IMO ??

They weren't necessarily being stingy - they might have needed to setup for other customers. The lounge car is only so big and its not practical to have it monopolised by a few customers sipping multiple drinks when others are waiting to eat breakfast. I think everyone needs to appreciate that the CS is a train and some unique considerations apply! Watching the beautiful scenery pass by whilst eating breakfast is a highlight of the CS (at least heading north!) and it should be experienced by all those that want to.

 

[Sleepy]

They weren't necessarily being stingy - they might have needed to setup for other customers. The lounge car is only so big and its not practical to have it monopolised by a few customers sipping multiple drinks when others are waiting to eat breakfast. I think everyone needs to appreciate that the CS is a train and some unique considerations apply! Watching the beautiful scenery pass by whilst eating breakfast is a highlight of the CS (at least heading north!) and it should be experienced by all those that want to.

Perhaps a timed slot system should be used if the lounge car is oversubscribed ?

 

[JamieL]

Perhaps a timed slot system should be used if the lounge car is oversubscribed ?

It broadly is - certainly when leaving the destination - First Class ticket holders go first, Classic thereafter. I am guessing breakfast self regulates as people get off at different stops (more so going north admittedly).

 

[Davester50]

They weren't necessarily being stingy - they might have needed to setup for other customers. The lounge car is only so big and its not practical to have it monopolised by a few customers sipping multiple drinks when others are waiting to eat breakfast. I think everyone needs to appreciate that the CS is a train and some unique considerations apply! Watching the beautiful scenery pass by whilst eating breakfast is a highlight of the CS (at least heading north!) and it should be experienced by all those that want to.

The highlight of the CS is getting you to the destination first thing in the morning, before the first day train has arrived. That's the whole point of it.
The scenery is still the same no matter what train.

 

[JamieL]

The highlight of the CS is getting you to the destination first thing in the morning, before the first day train has arrived. That's the whole point of it.
The scenery is still the same no matter what train.

You are conflating purpose with experience. Of course the purpose of the CS is to provide a very time efficient means of transport. However, given the tourist market and the pricing of the tickets, it is important to provide a quality experience. The Club Car is part of that hence the benefit in ensuring people get the opportunity if they wish to use its facilities. The point I am making, and have had been making throughout the thread, is the CS is a train and not a hotel. Its unique constraints associated with being a train - namely capacity in the Club Car, the fact is a travelling between destinations, finite food storage capabilities, limited numbers of hosts etc etc - all mandate a little give and take by passengers to make the journey more pleasant for all. Intransigence in the form of demanding extra breakfast or refusal to vacate upon arrival degrades the overall experience for all.

 

[driverd]

You are conflating purpose with experience. Of course the purpose of the CS is to provide a very time efficient means of transport. However, given the tourist market and the pricing of the tickets, it is important to provide a quality experience.

Such as being permitted to remain in your room until the advertised vacate time?

The Club Car is part of that hence the benefit in ensuring people get the opportunity if they wish to use its facilities. The point I am making, and have had been making throughout the thread, is the CS is a train and not a hotel.

You keep peddling this "it's a train" line, but it's certainly no defence for asking customers to vacate early. The train has a booked path that caters for the booked vacate by times. Staff are rostered accordingly; there's no excuse (other than staff wanting a flyer), to not recognise or honour these timings - STP ammendments excluded.

Its unique constraints associated with being a train - namely capacity in the Club Car, the fact is a travelling between destinations, finite food storage capabilities, limited numbers of hosts etc etc - all mandate a little give and take by passengers to make the journey more pleasant for all.

Or, they represent challenges to the business that should be met, in order to deliver the advertised service. I'm sure no one would object to stock running out on the night, but it's a bit much for stock only to be replenished at one end of the journey. Considering you recognise the experience adds value to the overall product, it would be quite disappointing for many, to find the advertised food service isn't available that evening. This is made all the more disappointing if the reason is a business decision to stock from only one end.

Intransigence in the form of demanding extra breakfast or refusal to vacate upon arrival degrades the overall experience for all.

No one is refusing to vacate - they're simply wanting the company to honour their own timetable.

 

[JamieL]

You keep peddling this "it's a train" line...

Because it is a train.

 

[Trainguy34]

Such as being permitted to remain in your room until the advertised vacate time?

Which makes sense as the train won't move until after the vacate time unless an earlier path is found, however that is very unlikely. If it needs cleaning, could that not be done at the depot or as the train is going to the depot.

 

[Davester50]

You are conflating purpose with experience. Of course the purpose of the CS is to provide a very time efficient means of transport. However, given the tourist market and the pricing of the tickets, it is important to provide a quality experience. The Club Car is part of that hence the benefit in ensuring people get the opportunity if they wish to use its facilities. The point I am making, and have had been making throughout the thread, is the CS is a train and not a hotel. Its unique constraints associated with being a train - namely capacity in the Club Car, the fact is a travelling between destinations, finite food storage capabilities, limited numbers of hosts etc etc - all mandate a little give and take by passengers to make the journey more pleasant for all. Intransigence in the form of demanding extra breakfast or refusal to vacate upon arrival degrades the overall experience for all.

Ahh, experience you say? All while taking the position for folk being chucked off the second it arrives at the terminal. lol.
Trains don't have the problems of weight or stowage like aircraft, CS even stop en-route, where potable water can be replenished.
Asking for a second cup of tea isn't demanding a second breakfast, that's hyperbole.

 

[JamieL]

Ahh, experience you say? All while taking the position for folk being chucked off the second it arrives at the terminal. lol.
Trains don't have the problems of weight or stowage like aircraft, CS even stop en-route, where potable water can be replenished.
Asking for a second cup of tea isn't demanding a second breakfast, that's hyperbole.

The experience ends when you get to the terminal - which is why the tickets pretty much say, (e.g.) arrival time 0730, dep 0731. I would humbly suggest, storage space is a factor - the trains only have so much space for foodstuffs. The extra cup of tea in itself is not an issue (and you can always order one in your cabin), it is the occupation of the lounge car which has limited capacity. In any event, it is what is it is, just don't use the service if it bothers you.

 

[Davester50]

The experience ends when you get to the terminal - which is why the tickets pretty much say, (e.g.) arrival time 0730, dep 0731. I would humbly suggest, storage space is a factor - the trains only have so much space for foodstuffs. The extra cup of tea in itself is not an issue (and you can always order one in your cabin), it is the occupation of the lounge car which has limited capacity. In any event, it is what is it is, just don't use the service if it bothers you.

More gymnastics than the Olympics.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The experience ends when you get to the terminal - which is why the tickets pretty much say, (e.g.) arrival time 0730, dep 0731. I would humbly suggest, storage space is a factor - the trains only have so much space for foodstuffs. The extra cup of tea in itself is not an issue (and you can always order one in your cabin), it is the occupation of the lounge car which has limited capacity. In any event, it is what is it is, just don't use the service if it bothers you.

If the ticket says depart 07:31 is it fair to kick people out over 30 minutes before ?.

Especially if that impacts on their sleep ?.

The train does not leave early if it arrives early. It seems it is the staff who get to leave early - how is that allowed by management ?.