Caledonian Sleeper

[43066]

Several corroborated accounts were told they didn't happen. That speaks volumes too!

If you mean your account, it isn’t “corroborated”, it’s one person’s viewpoint, as with all postings on here. I’ve set out my views upthread so I’ll leave it there (noting @Cowley ’s request above).

Yes!

Very cryptic. Well, if it was the CS, you must have enjoyed yourself throwing passengers out of their cabins at the crack of dawn .

 

[JamieL]

Several corroborated accounts were told they didn't happen. That speaks volumes too!

I didn't say they didn't happen - I asked for the specific details of how passengers were harassed so we could draw up an accurate picture. It speaks volumes that nobody could be specific.

 

[Davester50]

If you mean your account, it isn’t “corroborated”, it’s one person’s viewpoint, as with all postings on here.

I'd suggest you look at what the Moorov Doctrine is to see that is corroboration.

I didn't say they didn't happen - I asked for the specific details so we could draw up an accurate picture. It speaks volumes that nobody could be specific.

You asked for the innate details which were just there to obfuscate in my opinion.

 

[Techniquest]

Good gravy this thread's getting like a school playground! I'd offer my opinion on the sleeper, but it hasn't changed since I last made it, whenever that was.

Are there any more dates this year when the sleeper goes via the ECML? If so, I need to start putting in some holiday request time!

 

[JamieL]

You asked for the innate details which were just there to obfuscate in my opinion.

The devil is in the detail though. What is customer harassment to one person, might be useful prompting to others. By way of example - was the harassment knocking on the door every minute or so? Or was it a polite word as breakfast was dropped off? Given the limited number of hosts - and with many engaged doing breakfast - how can they embark on the mass harassment alleged in the thread? The numbers just don't add up. Hence the request for the detail.

Moreover, what were the specific instructions for that day's travel? As I demonstrated, the CS regularly asks for cabin vacation on arrival on its Service Alterations page. That isn't misrepresenting, its the customer not doing what they have been advised to do by the website, email and SMS. And what is common sense to do before any train travel!

 

[Steve Harris]

Good gravy this thread's getting like a school playground! I'd offer my opinion on the sleeper, but it hasn't changed since I last made it, whenever that was.

Are there any more dates this year when the sleeper goes via the ECML? If so, I need to start putting in some holiday request time!

Yes. Tonight it's going via the ECML (and is currently running 16 mins ahead of time). Although just a tad late to book a berth or holiday, lol.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This forum doesn’t reflect most customers, and certainly doesn’t speak for them. A case in point; the customer upthread who dared to say he was happy with the service was shouted down and told he’s wrong. That speaks volumes.

He was shouted down because he was happy with wilful misselling, not because he was happy with the CS service.

 

[JamieL]

He was shouted down because he was happy with wilful misselling, not because he was happy with the CS service.

If you really believe this, and can actually produce some evidence that stands up to scrutiny, why do you not report them to trading standards?

 

[Freightmaster]

Are there any more dates this year when the sleeper goes via the ECML? If so, I need to start putting in some holiday request time!

Friday nights until June 2nd and Sunday nights until June 11th.






MARK

 

[Tezza1978]

Reading the recent pages of this thread as a recent customer of the sleeper on 2 occasions is amusing as its now a bit of a squabble..........but I tend to agree with Bletchleyite - the hosts should be letting people stay on the train until the advertised time as that is what is promised. If a Premier Inn tried to chuck me out early I would hit the roof. Unless there is an emergency / a serious issue / another problem to mean early disembarkation in which case people should be informed in advance if at all possible (clearly not possible in all cases).

I'm not a morning person either but used the sleeper for business reasons and some reminders/nudges that its time to get off in 15 mins/20 mins/5 mins are absolutely 100% fine which is what I experienced in my two trips and I have zero issue with that.

If I had to get off the train at a different station at stupid o clock eg 4am/5am and then get another train to travel further North or South I would rightly expect compensation.

 

[Twingo37175]

Good gravy this thread's getting like a school playground!

This! Conscious of mod posting yesterday

 

[Techniquest]

Yes. Tonight it's going via the ECML (and is currently running 16 mins ahead of time). Although just a tad late to book a berth or holiday, lol.

A wee bit late to plead with the boss

I just fancy doing it for the novelty really, I've done the connection from the NLL to the ECML on a charter many years ago and I think the bits the sleeper does connecting from Wembley EUFOC (also dud from a charter) over to the ECML have been done. It would just be nice to do a 92 up the ECML to be honest, I'd connect it up with a walking expedition in Edinburgh I reckon. That and hunting some trams and 385s.

Friday nights until June 2nd and Sunday nights until June 11th.






MARK

Thanks Nothing else until 2024?

This! Conscious of mod posting yesterday

Thank you for the agreement Hopefully now the thread will go back to normal!

 

[JamieL]

Purely for info - and not looking to reopen the whole discussion - but I received this timely email from the CS team this morning for next week's commute. It shows how CS pro-actively informs you (in addition to adding the details to their website 'service alterations' page) about changes to not only arrival but also vacate times.

 

[Davester50]

Purely for info - and not looking to reopen the whole discussion - but I received this timely email from the CS team this morning for next week's commute. It shows how CS pro-actively informs you (in addition to adding the details to their website 'service alterations' page) about changes to not only arrival but also vacate times.

Great if you book direct.
Side note. Not everyone can, or does book direct.

 

[alistairlees]

Great if you book direct.
Side note. Not everyone can, or does book direct.

Between 80% and 90% book direct. Those who do not book direct should get a similar email from their retailer.

 

[popeter45]

Purely for info - and not looking to reopen the whole discussion - but I received this timely email from the CS team this morning for next week's commute. It shows how CS pro-actively informs you (in addition to adding the details to their website 'service alterations' page) about changes to not only arrival but also vacate times.

same for exact same train

 

[island]

Great if you book direct.
Side note. Not everyone can, or does book direct.

Everyone* can book direct. They might not want to book direct, for example because they may have to go through extra steps to be reimbursed in full for their journey by an employer if they do not use that employer's preferred channel, but that's not the same as saying that they can't.

*The RailForums standard minority of a deaf, blind, mute person who only uses cash for religious reasons excepted

 

[Bletchleyite]

Everyone* can book direct. They might not want to book direct, for example because they may have to go through extra steps to be reimbursed in full for their journey by an employer if they do not use that employer's preferred channel, but that's not the same as saying that they can't.

Some of us are strictly prohibited from booking rail or air travel other than via the corporate travel agency*. I am. Any rail travel not purchased that way (using the manual travel desk if the Evolvi tool won't do it) will not be reimbursed. This is very common.

* Except I think for fares under £10, if I recall, to allow for TfL contactless and similar.

 

[island]

Some of us are strictly prohibited from booking rail or air travel other than via the corporate travel agency*. I am. Any rail travel not purchased that way (using the manual travel desk if the Evolvi tool won't do it) will not be reimbursed.

Again, difference between can and want to.

This is very common.

I think you're overestimating its instance based on your own experience. Nowhere I have worked in the past 10 years has required the use of corporate travel agencies, and only one place even had one, which nobody really cared whether you used it or not.

 

[Trainbike46]

Again, difference between can and want to.

If the alternative is not getting reimbursed for (rather expensive) business travel, I would class that as a "can't", tbh

I think you're overestimating its instance based on your own experience. Nowhere I have worked in the past 10 years has required the use of corporate travel agencies, and only one place even had one, which nobody really cared whether you used it or not.

I think Bletchleyite is right here. My organisation does not allow booking business travel except through the corporate travel agent either, and I know of at least a few other places that are the same.

 

[JamieL]

My organisation is quite happy for me to reclaim receipted expenditure via direct booking. I think most companies are probably the same in this day and age, certainly for the type of employee likely to be using the CS.

Glad to see some acknowledgement on the forum that business users do indeed make use of the CS!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Again, difference between can and want to.

Are you seriously suggesting that I should fund my business travel myself just in order that CS might send me communications?

Tickets (and flights/hotels unless e.g. Ryanair/Travelodge they won't sell via the aggregators at all, though last time I booked sleasyJet for a work trip they insisted on the agent doing it for me via easyjet.com) booked via means other than our corporate travel agency will not be reimbursed. Flat "will not". The expenses processing company will reject them and other than going to the C-suite level (if you've not come across that term before as it's quite recent business-speak, I mean Chief Executive Officer or similar) local managers cannot override this.

I think you're overestimating its instance based on your own experience. Nowhere I have worked in the past 10 years has required the use of corporate travel agencies, and only one place even had one, which nobody really cared whether you used it or not.

It's true at most corporates., largely because they want aggregated data of travel booked, but some also have stuff like pre-approval built in. Smaller businesses tend to be more flexible. It's a bit annoying (mainly because I like seat selection) but it is what it is.

However, it's slightly irrelevant. The railway booking system is federated, and I should receive proper service whichever accredited site I use - that's like the whole point of the accreditation system.

 

[JamieL]

The CS seats are available via the "federated" ticket system. I am not sure about the cabins. Nevertheless, the point here was that if you buy a ticket over the counter, then you haven't been exposed to the vacate times on the CS website and therefore would expect to disembark on arrival. Your contract is with whoever sold you the ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The CS seats are available via the "federated" ticket system. I am not sure about the cabins. Nevertheless, the point here was that if you buy a ticket over the counter, then you haven't been exposed to the vacate times on the CS website and therefore would expect to disembark on arrival.

Or you'd read the timetables on the CS site which state a time, and thus have an expectation.

Expectations are important. On that basis it'd be better if they didn't commit to anything and simply said when you arrived what it was so you could set your alarm accordingly.

Your contract is with whoever sold you the ticket.

Correct, but irrelevant.

For clarity, though, this issue isn't them changing the time (as I'm sure they'd have the sense to tell you on arrival when checking you in?) - but rather stewards hassling people on arrival, which you haven't experienced because you yourself as you stated always alight immediately on arrival and as such can't comment upon with any degree of experience.

 

[JamieL]

Or you'd read the timetables on the CS site which state a time, and thus have an expectation.



Correct, but irrelevant.

Your contract isn't with CS if you buy your ticket elsewhere. It is for your ticket provider to give you the relevant details and update you accordingly. I think, what is now clear, is the issue isn't with CS but your employers travel policy. You do, of course, still have access to the Service Alterations page on the CS website to help you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Your contract isn't with CS if you buy your ticket elsewhere. It is for your ticket provider to give you the relevant details and update you accordingly. I think, what is now clear, is the issue isn't with CS but your employers travel policy. You do, of course, still have access to the Service Alterations page on the CS website to help you.

No, the issue is with CS making a categorical statement on their timetables and its staff not sticking to either that statement or a later-made one, as has been repeatedly stated and you have openly stated you haven't experienced as you always alight on arrival. All I'm asking is that they remove this statement or replace it with something indicating that it's more discretionary and may not be offered, and thus it's prudent to be ready to disembark immediately on arrival (but equally if you've overslept not to worry about ending up in the depot by accident). "It may be possible to remain in cabins until 0730 but please check with your steward on the day" is what it should say, which reflects the reality on the ground.

So as not to rile the mods this is my final reply on this unless we go down a different line (e.g. the company one, which is the only reason I returned), but you are very much on your own here in justifying companies advertising things then changing them randomly later, even if that change is communicated via selected channels.

 

[JamieL]

That's fair enough- more than happy to agree to disagree - and I think the point we disagree on is "categorical". I believe the information provided by CS via email, website and SMS is more than sufficient. I suppose if you disagree, and have evidence to support it, contact trading standards. That is absolutely what they are there for.

 

[najaB]

My organisation is quite happy for me to reclaim receipted expenditure via direct booking. I think most companies are probably the same in this day and age, certainly for the type of employee likely to be using the CS.

It's probably about 50/50. Depends on the size of the organisation at a guess.

Or you'd read the timetables on the CS site which state a time, and thus have an expectation.

Given that tickets bought through a travel retail site can and do have different terms to those bought directly (for example, we used to get fee-free cancellations/changes on rail tickets, including Advances), then anything read on any other site would be considered as 'information only' rather than authoritative.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the responsibility will be on the retailer to inform the traveller of any alterations.

 

[Cantab26]

Your contract isn't with CS if you buy your ticket elsewhere.

This is legally incorrect. A contract is formed with CS even if the ticket is purchased elsewhere.

 

[Davester50]

Some of us are strictly prohibited from booking rail or air travel other than via the corporate travel agency*. I am. Any rail travel not purchased that way (using the manual travel desk if the Evolvi tool won't do it) will not be reimbursed. This is very common.

but some also have stuff like pre-approval built in. Smaller businesses tend to be more flexible. It's a bit annoying (mainly because I like seat selection) but it is what it is.

Similar policy, which is why I mentioned it.