Caledonian Sleeper

[31160]

The Inverness sleeper is supposed to go via Aberdeen on monday night, dont know about after that. If the sleeper was terminated short where did the stock end up?

 

[route101]

Surely you want a double, with the aisle seats still being blocked off, there is no chance of anyone next to you and you get more space to yourself, are able to stretch out and no one bumping you as they walk past?

Yes good point, I do prefer the buffer of an empty seat.

 

[najaB]

If the sleeper was terminated short where did the stock end up?

Polmadie, most likely.

 

[Bill57p9]

Polmadie, most likely.

Both Highlanders & (as usual) the northbound Lowlander ran ECS to Polmadie on Saturday.

There is also a 5 coach portion (effectively stranded) with 73971 in Aberdeen Clayhills from Friday morning and of course Friday night's southbound Lowlander in Wembley.

 

[DiscoGaza]

Given the stock is cleaned/serviced at Polmadie, why would they start/stop the lowlander services in Edinburgh rather than Glasgow?

Friday 25th up to and including Monday 29th November
Northbound Lowlander
London Euston To Glasgow Central

Due to increased absences of safety critical staff scheduled to operate our train service’s we have had to make amendments to our timetables on Thursday 25th to Monday 29th November inclusive. To keep as many of our guests moving as possible in these challenging times, we have taken the decision to join our Glasgow and Edinburgh services with a joint termination at Edinburgh Waverley only and not Glasgow Central as booked originally.

Sunday 28th November
Southbound Lowlander
Glasgow Central to London Euston

Due to increased absences of safety critical staff scheduled to operate our train service’s we have had to make amendments to our timetables. To keep as many of our guests moving as possible in these challenging times, we have taken the decision to join our Glasgow and Edinburgh services with a departure from Edinburgh Waverley only and not Glasgow Central as booked originally.

 

[najaB]

Given the stock is cleaned/serviced at Polmadie, why would they start/stop the lowlander services in Edinburgh rather than Glasgow?

The Edinburgh portion is normally the busier of the two.

 

[43096]

Given the stock is cleaned/serviced at Polmadie, why would they start/stop the lowlander services in Edinburgh rather than Glasgow?

Platform lengths for a full 14/16 car set, perhaps?

 

[6Z09]

Given the stock is cleaned/serviced at Polmadie, why would they start/stop the lowlander services in Edinburgh rather than Glasgow?

Absence of Safety Critical Staff ???
Really?
A rather worn out reason.
Why not just get the industrial dispute sorted.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Absence of Safety Critical Staff ???
Really?
A rather worn out reason.
Why not just get the industrial dispute sorted.

Because that would cost money. Not running trains saves money. There is no incentive for them to resolve it.

 

[92002]

Because that would cost money. Not running trains saves money. There is no incentive for them to resolve it.

The Highland Main Line is closed till Tuesday for a bridge renewal. Obviously there are not many bookings from or to Aberdeen or Fort William this week. So a few days off gives the chance to catch up on mainteinance at Polmadie. Otherwise it would run without the Inverness portion. Think there currently are 6 sets there. With the Lowlander running from Edinburgh only for now. Due to staff sickness.

 

[6Z09]

The Highland Main Line is closed till Tuesday for a bridge renewal. Obviously there are not many bookings from or to Aberdeen or Fort William this week. So a few days off gives the chance to catch up on mainteinance at Polmadie. Otherwise it would run without the Inverness portion. Think there currently are 6 sets there. With the Lowlander running from Edinburgh only for now. Due to staff sickness.

Staff sickness??
Really?
Only the Lowlander running and it cant be fully crewed?

 

[92002]

Staff sickness??
Really?
Only the Lowlander running and it cant be fully crewed?

Believe some Train Managers were on holiday and came home with Covid.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Given the stock is cleaned/serviced at Polmadie, why would they start/stop the lowlander services in Edinburgh rather than Glasgow?

The platforms at Glasgow Central can't take afull 16 coaches (plus a loco at each end as they can't run round there.)

 

[YorkshireBear]

Taking my first trip on the sleeper Thursday night hope things have settled down a bit by then!

 

[TimboM]

The platforms at Glasgow Central can't take afull 16 coaches (plus a loco at each end as they can't run round there.)

Load 16 sleepers (plus ECS loco) have been in Glasgow Central before, although it's a bit tight. However, the Sleepers are currently only Load 14 due to coaches being taken out for winter maintenance, so it's not a platform length issue.

As mentioned earlier, more passengers travel from Edinburgh generally, so if the Lowlander has to run as a single train, less passengers are disrupted if it's to and/or from Edinburgh.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2021 ==

Because that would cost money. Not running trains saves money. There is no incentive for them to resolve it.

How does it save money?

Just because the services don't run doesn't mean Serco gets out of paying GBRf, Alstom and all its other suppliers, or all the staff who aren't on strike, including the (expensive) management and 'back office' staff.

Then there's the costs of dealing with the disruption, processing refunds, informing passengers, handling complaints etc...

And for all this, zero passenger income (tickets or food/beverage) when the services don't run.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2021 ==

The Highland Main Line is closed till Tuesday for a bridge renewal. Obviously there are not many bookings from or to Aberdeen or Fort William this week. So a few days off gives the chance to catch up on mainteinance at Polmadie. Otherwise it would run without the Inverness portion. Think there currently are 6 sets there. With the Lowlander running from Edinburgh only for now. Due to staff sickness.

Erm... no.

All portions were due to run, with the Inverness diverted 'over the top' via Aberdeen. The cancellations tonight and on Friday night were/are due to the impact of Storm Arwen and services not being able to get through the (revised) planned routes due to blockages, OHLE damage, power cuts etc etc. Whilst some routes (but not all) are now passable, a lot of the stock is now way out of position - hence various empty stock moves tonight to get sets back to where they should be (although one of those has already had to be cancelled due to on-going disruption).

 

[najaB]

How does it save money?

Just because the services don't run doesn't mean Serco gets out of paying GBRf, Alstom and all its other suppliers, or all the staff who aren't on strike, including the (expensive) management and 'back office' staff.

I guess the variable costs will be track access, fuel/traction current and cleaning.

 

[Sm5]

When a service gets curtailed or delayed, who is paying out the delay repay ?

Reading some of the stories of CS, when its really only a 4 train daily operation, its must be quite expensive running those trains, only to be refunding all the revenue when one or more if them is running late, which seems to be an almost modus operandi.

I dont see how this operation would survive as a commercial entity, which begs.. how safe is the subsidy for this thing, and is anybody looking at the numbers ?

 

[TimboM]

I guess the variable costs will be track access, fuel/traction current and cleaning.

Cleaning is sub-contracted and I expect the cleaning companies will still want paying whether strike or not.

Fuel is most probably paid for by GBRf and all wrapped up as part of the traction contract so Serco unlikely to get a "refund" on this - also there tends to be various ECS and loco moves on strike nights, so any saving would be cancelled out.

Track Access charges is the one possible saving - but again not sure whether Network Rail give a "full refund" if a path isn't used - I suspect there's at least some sort of charge.

 

[221129]

When a service gets curtailed or delayed, who is paying out the delay repay ?

It's a bit of a complicated answer. But CS would pay out to the passengers. They may be able to get a portion of the cash back depending on the route cause of delay.

 

[TimboM]

It's a bit of a complicated answer. But CS would pay out to the passengers. They may be able to get a portion of the cash back depending on the route cause of delay.

The majority gets recovered from Network Rail one way or the other.

As for the safety of the subsidy, it not being there would involve politicians losing a lot of face, so probably very safe.

That said, pretty sure CS is effectively a 'managed contract' these days (or the Covid emergency measures equivalent which will probably become a managed contract before too long). And then there's GBR on the horizon... so the subsidy notion is likely to be history pretty soon.

 

[Sm5]

The majority gets recovered from Network Rail one way or the other.

As for the safety of the subsidy, it not being there would involve politicians losing a lot of face, so probably very safe.

That said, pretty sure CS is effectively a 'managed contract' these days (or the Covid emergency measures equivalent which will probably become a managed contract before too long). And then there's GBR on the horizon... so the subsidy notion is likely to be history pretty soon.

its the GBR thing I was thinking of…. There doesnt seem to be much money there, indeed it seems more about reducing cost, and to me this looks an easy target financially… lets face it governments have no problems with scrapping waste, despite the money sunk, and when it comes to mk5’s… no one cares about brand new TPEs being mostly laid up with no future… thats what happened to the EPS mark 5’s, and i’m sure VIA rail wouldnt say no to a bargain twice, especially as their mk5’s are getting a bit older.

 

[MotCO]

It's a bit of a complicated answer. But CS would pay out to the passengers. They may be able to get a portion of the cash back depending on the route cause of delay.

I think you mean 'root', but on the other hand 'route' may be more appropriate

 

[221129]

its the GBR thing I was thinking of…. There doesnt seem to be much money there, indeed it seems more about reducing cost, and to me this looks an easy target financially.

GBR won't have anything to do with Caledonian Sleeper.

 

[Sm5]

GBR won't have anything to do with Caledonian Sleeper.

Is that because its Scottish ?

 

[221129]

Is that because its Scottish ?

Correct. It won't have an impact on ScotRail or Transport for Wales either.

 

[D6130]

its the GBR thing I was thinking of….

Is that because its Scottish ?

Yes....but more specifically, because its contract is let by Transport for Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Government - as is ScotRail's. Neither of them will become part of GBR because the SG has devolved responsibility for internal transport. In fact a more appropriate title for GBR would be GER (Great English Railways). The only GBR services to penetrate into Scotland will be the services currently operated by AWC, TPE and LNER from South of the Border to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Inverness and Aberdeen. Not sure yet what the situation will be with LUMO....but I'm sure that someone on here will be able to enlighten us!

 

[najaB]

Correct. It won't have an impact on ScotRail or Transport for Wales either.

But "England Rail" doesn't sound as impressive. I presume that CS will work very closely with GBR though even though it's not part of it.

 

[92002]

Load 16 sleepers (plus ECS loco) have been in Glasgow Central before, although it's a bit tight. However, the Sleepers are currently only Load 14 due to coaches being taken out for winter maintenance, so it's not a platform length issue.

As mentioned earlier, more passengers travel from Edinburgh generally, so if the Lowlander has to run as a single train, less passengers are disrupted if it's to and/or from Edinburgh.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2021 ==


How does it save money?

Just because the services don't run doesn't mean Serco gets out of paying GBRf, Alstom and all its other suppliers, or all the staff who aren't on strike, including the (expensive) management and 'back office' staff.

Then there's the costs of dealing with the disruption, processing refunds, informing passengers, handling complaints etc...

And for all this, zero passenger income (tickets or food/beverage) when the services don't run.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2021 ==


Erm... no.

All portions were due to run, with the Inverness diverted 'over the top' via Aberdeen. The cancellations tonight and on Friday night were/are due to the impact of Storm Arwen and services not being able to get through the (revised) planned routes due to blockages, OHLE damage, power cuts etc etc. Whilst some routes (but not all) are now passable, a lot of the stock is now way out of position - hence various empty stock moves tonight to get sets back to where they should be (although one of those has already had to be cancelled due to on-going disruption).

No trains North of Dundee today due to high winds.

 

[najaB]

No trains North of Dundee today due to high winds.

High winds today? It wasn't windy at all in Dundee. Or was it a result of high winds on Friday night/Saturday morning?

Edit: Seems that they still haven't managed to deal with all the debris on the line. Nice picture from Flickr showing line clearance in progress near Carnoustie today: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tayrail/51711755559/in/dateposted/

 

[221129]

The only GBR services to penetrate into Scotland will be the services currently operated by AWC, TPE and LNER from South of the Border to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Inverness and Aberdeen. Not sure yet what the situation will be with LUMO....but I'm sure that someone on here will be able to enlighten us!

Unless I've missed something very big XC will also be heading north of the border....

Lumo, Hull Trains and Grand Central will remain separate.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2021 ==

But "England Rail" doesn't sound as impressive. I presume that CS will work very closely with GBR though even though it's not part of it.

Only in the sense that they work with the other TOCs as they do now.