Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[43096]

I'm assuming though for the initial Euston-Wembley drag (if diverting via ECML in future with the Mk5s) they wouldn't be able to use the 87 (or 86s) and would need 92s on this.

Surely train supply could come from the 92 on the back out of Euston when this diversion happens in future. Can still use the 86 or 87 on the front then.

 

[GW43125]

My thought as well. In fact, once the Mk5s are introduced, does it impact on the whole future of the 'classic' electric traction used for even the ECS work due to their insufficient ETS?

More to the point, I doubt the classic locos will have the dellners fitted so that'd spell curtains too.

 

[captainbigun]

Not sure, but good question. They'd still be OK presumably on the Polmadie-Glasgow ECS as that's load 8.

For the Wembley-Euston run, the (16) empty coaches all look lit up when they head into Euston on an evening, but I'm not sure if they need to be? I think the staff are on board, so some light/heat will be needed, but not sure if there's a way they'll be able to go in on 'reduced power' with an 86/87 and then go on 'full power' once the 92 is hooked up (my hunch would be not).

Never mind the ETS. No Dellner, no couple. The 47 will be long gone at this point.

However, Timbo is correct, you can run on a degraded supply, with loss of some HVAC function.

 

[captainbigun]

More to the point, I doubt the classic locos will have the dellners fitted so that'd spell curtains too.

Dellners can be fitted.

 

[TimboM]

Never mind the ETS. No Dellner, no couple. The 47 will be long gone at this point.

However, Timbo is correct, you can run on a degraded supply, with loss of some HVAC function.

Dellners can be fitted.

Knew there was something obvious I was missing! Whilst dellners could be fitted to the 86s/87s, would be interesting to see if A/C Loco Group would be up for putting these on their 'classic' locos? Hiring-out the 86s/87 on a long-term basis to GBRf is helping fund some of their other projects (e.g. the 89) so they may well be prepared to if it helps obtain further revenue.

I'm guessing the Colas 47 is only there until the 73s are back up to full compliment.

 

[captainbigun]

The Dellner doesn't have to be fixed. ROG type affair or new arrangement with altered drag box and drop head coupling equally doable.

 

[fgwrich]

The Dellner doesn't have to be fixed. ROG type affair or new arrangement with altered drag box and drop head coupling equally doable.

Not only that, but you can of course use a Dellner Adapter too.

As for the Sleeper coming in with its lights on, I think that only happens with the Highlander due to RS early departure. Certainly when the Lowlander arrives into Euston it regularly comes in lights off.

 

[TimboM]

The Dellner doesn't have to be fixed. ROG type affair or new arrangement with altered drag box and drop head coupling equally doable.

Ah, ok... in that case I can see the arrangement with the 87/86s continuing as suits both parties. AC Loco Group keep getting the revenue (and use) out of their locos and GBRf have less strain on their 92 fleet.

 

[CosherB]

Longer term, Porterbrook will have 15 Class 90s going spare .....

 

[captainbigun]

Longer term, Porterbrook will have 15 Class 90s going spare .....

Same challenges apply. I'd expect ex-GA 90s to go to FL or Bulgaria/Hungary.

 

[fgwrich]

Same challenges apply. I'd expect ex-GA 90s to go to FL or Bulgaria/Hungary.

Indeed so, although I'd have thought either Freightliner to replace their AL6s or to another of the FOCs will be more likely for the Class.

 

[captainbigun]

Indeed so, although I'd have thought either Freightliner to replace their AL6s or to another of the FOCs will be more likely for the Class.

86s owe FL nothing, super cheap to maintain, pretty reliable now and there's nothing better than a pair of these for the liners. Can't see any other FOC being interested, there aren't the flows to make use and now electrification is at best stalled that's not going to change in the lifetime of the 90s.

 

[TimboM]

Indeed so, although I'd have thought either Freightliner to replace their AL6s or to another of the FOCs will be more likely for the Class.

Yes - I'd expect Porterbrook will have other customers who'd be looking to get more use out of 90s (either here or abroad) than ECS moves/shunting (and who will pay them accordingly). I think GBRf will either continue with the 86s/87 with a few modifications, or use their own 92s.

Wonder what the odds of seeing 89001 in CS-livery on the ECS in a couple of years are...?

 

[TimboM]

86s owe FL nothing, super cheap to maintain, pretty reliable now and there's nothing better than a pair of these for the liners. Can't see any other FOC being interested, there aren't the flows to make use and now electrification is at best stalled that's not going to change in the lifetime of the 90s.

We're digressing a bit, but I though Freightliner's aim was more to replace expensive/unreliable diesels (70s and to some extent 66s) with double-headed A/C traction (86s or 90s) - so it's more about them replacing those than the 86s.

 

[captainbigun]

We're digressing a bit, but I though Freightliner's aim was more to replace expensive/unreliable diesels (70s and to some extent 66s) with double-headed A/C traction (86s or 90s) - so it's more about them replacing those than the 86s.

Where you can yes. Tilbury has shut, so that's a reduction in suitable flows, Thames Gateway is not electrified.

Pairs of 90s have some restrictions, the current draw is higher than for a pair of 86s.

 

[Scotrail84]

86s owe FL nothing, super cheap to maintain, pretty reliable now and there's nothing better than a pair of these for the liners. Can't see any other FOC being interested, there aren't the flows to make use and now electrification is at best stalled that's not going to change in the lifetime of the 90s.

It was a pair of 86s that puled the wires down on Saturday morning at Shap, one of them lost its pan

 

[TimboM]

Quick Q hopefully - does anyone know which way round 87002 and 92033 worked the Wembley-Euston drag-back legs this morning (Tue morning) for 1M11 (Lowlander) and 1M16 (Highlander)?

 

[captainbigun]

It was a pair of 86s that puled the wires down on Saturday morning at Shap, one of them lost its pan

These things happen. Cause can be one of many things, including infrastructure and pan.

 

[captainbigun]

Quick Q hopefully - does anyone know which way round 87002 and 92033 worked the Wembley-Euston drag-back legs this morning (Tue morning) for 1M11 (Lowlander) and 1M16 (Highlander)?

87002 was 1M16.

 

[TimboM]

87002 was 1M16.

Thanks

 

[Scotrail84]

90 045 is on 1M11 tonight.

 

[TimboM]

90 045 is on 1M11 tonight.

90042 was on 1S26, so was a Freightliner 90 fest on the Lowlanders last night.

92010 has been enjoying the Glaswegian air at Polmadie since it ended up there somewhat unexpectedly on Sat morning due to the 86 pulling the wires down at Shap.

 

[Scotrail84]

90 045 on 1S26

 

[Lee_Again]

Looking to book a family ticket for next March 2018.

Was presented with a very interesting carriage plan !!!!! Enjoy.

 

[najaB]

Looking to book a family ticket for next March 2018.

Was presented with a very interesting carriage plan !!!!! Enjoy.

We would enjoy it more if you had attached something.

 

[TimboM]

We would enjoy it more if you had attached something.

Hopefully Lee can share some pics/attachment, but I've just had a look and in summary (for Euston-Glasgow as an example) there's two sleeper coaches at either end [J and P] which I assume are "First" with 6 berths each (3 double and 3 single) and four coaches in the middle [K-N] which appear to be "Standard" with 10 twin berths in, with two sets of pairs at one end appearing to have adjoining doors.

There is this disclaimer however: "Please be aware that you are booking to travel during a planned transition period while we introduce our new trains. As a result, we cannot guarantee whether you will be travelling on our new train or current train."

 

[TimboM]

GBRf have just posted this on their Facebook page:

GBRf has a long standing relationship with the AC Loco Group who provide 3 locomotives (86101, 86401 and 87002) for moving the empty portions of the Caledonian Sleeper trains.

It's unusual for these locomotives to stretch their legs very far however we have arranged with both the AC Loco Group and Caledonian Sleepers to use 87002 on the northbound lowlander Sleeper service (2350 Euston - Glasgow) this coming Monday night (5th) and returning on the southbound lowlander (2340 Glasgow - Euston) on Tuesday night (6th).

This is obviously subject to there being no last minute issues and we cannot guarantee the locomotive, however we will do everything we can to ensure the plan unfolds as intended and look forward to seeing this 44 year old machine doing what it was designed to do.

Caledonian Sleeper bookings can be made here...

https://www.sleeper.scot/

Dare I say this a marketing ploy to fill an otherwise quietish service with enthusiasts, bearing in mind 87002 and 86401 have done "full" runs in the last couple of months as last-minute stand-ins for the booked 90/92s...

 

[Blindtraveler]

If so then good on Cal Sleaper doing something for rnthusiasts.

 

[Cowley]

If so then good on Cal Sleaper doing something for rnthusiasts.

Absolutely, if they're well maintained and reliable enough to do the job (and they obviously are) then best of luck to them and I hope a few people enjoy a trip behind them.

 

[cf111]

I've attached some screenshots of the new layouts below although I think the seated coach may just be a Mk2!