Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Whistler40145]

Engineering works between Edinburgh and Carstairs tonight?

 

[PHILIPE]

Running according to RTT including the ECS ex Polmadie, but there is Engineering work between Kirknewton and Holytown which would affect it as far as Midcalder Jn. NRE states only Scotrail affected but if you ask Journey Planner an error message comes up.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Running according to RTT including the ECS ex Polmadie, but there is Engineering work between Kirknewton and Holytown which would affect it as far as Midcalder Jn.

Shotts Line electrification has a number of bridges in various states of demolition and rebuilding. Their social media person has just uploaded some photos to the Twitter feed, btw.

@shottslineelec for those who do Twitter.

 

[Bungle965]

Reported to be a train crew problem.
Sam

 

[scotraildriver]

The guard called in sick last minute.

 

[spangles]

Yes, rather annoying. I travelled from Perth to Edinburgh to pick up the service. The boards at Edinburgh said 'engineering works' but on the bus they said it was a crew shortage. I ended up losing over two hours of sleep which kind of devalues the point of the service.

 

[jopsuk]

People can get sick, and rapidly. That happens. Can't imagine CS have Spare Turn Guards?

 

[scotraildriver]

Scotrail still provide the guards. No spare at that time

 

[tsr]

Forgive me if this is meant to be obvious somewhere on the internet, or on these forums, but I have a few questions about guards on the Caledonian Sleeper which I can't find any answers to. Specifically under the heading: how does the rostering and/or use of guards work between Edinburgh and London? I am well aware that guards from local depots work the train over routes such as the WHL.

I must confess I have only used the Sleeper a couple of times, and didn't really watch dispatch at stations for the section of the journey where the full train runs to/from Euston.

Is there a specific link of guards with route knowledge via the ECML/WCML? That's a lot of route knowledge, but then again there must be guards/conductors/TMs based on the mid-point of these and other mainlines with equally considerable knowledge (eg. signing either side of the depot towards both London and somewhere North/West etc.)

Or is there some sort of modified "crew working" - driver + platform staff to dispatch, plus onboard stewards?

I believe on a couple of short routes in Britain (the PPM in Stourbridge, and maybe the Island Line, though correct me if I'm wrong) the drivers and guards swap roles. Can this be done with, for example, a FOC or Serco driver also being competent in the safety aspects of the guard's role (as opposed to any customer service or revenue duties)?

 

[reb0118]

Scotrail still provide the guards. No spare at that time

Only for the internal Scottish portions (ABD; INV; & FTW). Serco provide their own Train Managers [TM] for the services that run south of Edinburgh & Glasgow. There should be an on call TM available for short notice calls off but I think one TM has recently passed away suddenly and his replacement is in training. There is only so much overtime that the rest of the TMs can do. This is the problem with micro franchises as the additional cost required to provide a robust spare coverage is probably prohibitive.

Is there a specific link of guards with route knowledge via the ECML/WCML? That's a lot of route knowledge, but then again there must be guards/conductors/TMs based on the mid-point of these and other mainlines with equally considerable knowledge

Serco provide their own Train Managers (Guards) for the Lowlander (EDB & GLC) and the Highlander south of Edinburgh.

They sign the WCM, ECM, & diversions.

 

[tsr]

Only for the internal Scottish portions (ABD; INV; & FTW). Serco provide their own Train Managers [TM] for the services that run south of Edinburgh & Glasgow. There should be an on call TM available for short notice calls off but I think one TM has recently passed away suddenly and his replacement is in training. There is only so much overtime that the rest of the TMs can do. This is the problem with micro franchises as the additional cost required to provide a robust spare coverage is probably prohibitive.

Serco provide their own Train Managers (Guards) for the Lowlander (EDB & GLC) and the Highlander south of Edinburgh.

They sign the WCM, ECM, & diversions.

That's useful to know - thanks for clarifying. As I say, that's certainly a pretty vast amount of route knowledge and must also be a pretty interesting job, even with a fairly basic service pattern to work. In recent times there certainly must have been a number of things to keep the mind fresh, such as the faults and failures so well-documented on here, as well as locomotive diagramming, and night after night of diverting around the country.

I should imagine on such a small team that the loss of the TM in question is a very raw matter, with my sympathies of course, and I'm guessing everyone is trying to pull together as much as possible. I have no idea if it is anything to do with it and don't wish to get any details, but I'd think the shift pattern would take its toll on your health - I'd certainly say I'm not sure I could do near-enough permanent nights as a guard!

On a more mundane note, are the Serco TMs based at Edinburgh or somewhere else? And do they do revenue duties (obviously not ticket checking, but sales/endorsements/excesses) or are they purely to oversee dispatch and the guard's role per the rulebook?

 

[najaB]

I should imagine on such a small team that the loss of the TM in question is a very raw matter, with my sympathies of course, and I'm guessing everyone is trying to pull together as much as possible.

I was speaking with one of the hosts and yes, it did have a big impact. Made even worse because the team is so small it meant that some of his closest colleagues were scheduled to work and couldn't attend the funeral.

 

[Hadders]

From my observations on the FW portion last week:

One guard works the 1815 ex-Mallaig and then works the sleeper through to Rannoch from where he returns to Fort William
The next guard joins the train at Rannoch and works the train to Queen Street
A further swap takes place at Queen Street and this guard works through to Edinburgh.

 

[reb0118]

On a more mundane note, are the Serco TMs based at Edinburgh or somewhere else?

Edinburgh, Glasgow Central, & London Euston.

And do they do revenue duties (obviously not ticket checking, but sales/endorsements/excesses) or are they purely to oversee dispatch and the guard's role per the rulebook?

The TM will check tickets in the seated coaches on all services departing London and on the Lowlander departing from Scotland (All tickets should be checked on the southbound Highlander by ScotRail guards prior to the TM at EDB taking over).

They can sell tickets too but some TMs just get the stewards to issue any tickets required as this cuts down on the number of avantix machines required. The stewards are fully responsible for revenue in the sleeping berths inc. upgrades. The TMs would only get involved in the unlikely case of a dispute.

 

[tsr]

Edinburgh, Glasgow Central, & London Euston.

The TM will check tickets in the seated coaches on all services departing London and on the Lowlander departing from Scotland (All tickets should be checked on the southbound Highlander by ScotRail guards prior to the TM at EDB taking over).

They can sell tickets too but some TMs just get the stewards to issue any tickets required as this cuts down on the number of avantix machines required. The stewards are fully responsible for revenue in the sleeping berths inc. upgrades. The TMs would only get involved in the unlikely case of a dispute.

Wow, though I haven't ever used the seated Sleeper accommodation, I definitely didn't expect to hear they check it! That said, if it's done immediately after departure from the origin, I guess the vast majority of people won't have settled down to sleep. But even so, if the tickets have been put away for the evening, it could result in a bit of hassle! I know that I have had tickets checked on the platform at Euston and Fort William for the berths, and it makes sense if the stewards are exclusively responsible for that.

Again, thanks for the info. It's certainly enlightening even for somebody who is usually fairly nosy about watching how the roles differ for staff at other TOCs. I must watch more carefully when I next use or see the Sleeper, though it all sounds strangely straightforward, really, when I compare it to a normal conductor/guard's job.

 

[reb0118]

Wow, though I haven't ever used the seated Sleeper accommodation, I definitely didn't expect to hear they check it! That said, if it's done immediately after departure from the origin, I guess the vast majority of people won't have settled down to sleep.

At Aberdeen I generally check on the platform prior to departure and I would assume my TM colleagues do the same further south. It is a lot easier dealing with "problem pax" on the platform as opposed to getting them off the train. (not that we get that many problem pax, touch wood) - at the intermediate stations I normally check the numbers wishing to board against the guards' report and it it matches I will check them at their seat shortly after departure or if there's a discrepancy on the platform.

We have more pick up locations on the Highland portions north of Edinburgh but the theory is the same.

 

[ld0595]

Are all the portions using the 73s now? Just passed the Aberdeen portion with one on it. How are they coping so far?

 

[hibtastic]

Are all the portions using the 73s now? Just passed the Aberdeen portion with one on it. How are they coping so far?

I think the fact we haven't heard much about them means they are working well and boy did GBRF need that to be the case!

 

[cf111]

Are all the portions using the 73s now? Just passed the Aberdeen portion with one on it. How are they coping so far?

The Inverness portion has been a 67 for the week so far.

 

[Johnuk123]

I think the fact we haven't heard much about them means they are working well and boy did GBRF need that to be the case!

Time will tell.

 

[CosherB]

Time will tell.

Well GBRf has trusted haulage of the Belmond Royal Scotsman to a pair of 73/9s, so I'd say it's a vote of confidence in them, even at this early stage.

 

[LeylandLen]

Saw the stock for Sundays 2057 Inverness sleeper in platform 15 at Euston as my Glasgow train departed from adjacent platform 14 : 90022 having hauled the stock there. I must admit from the outside the carriages do seem in want of replacing. Obviously well used and many miles covered . I hope to use the service this summer and just wondered how do users find the accommodation for First and Standard class?

 

[captainbigun]

That would've been 90042.

 

[Johnuk123]

Saw the stock for Sundays 2057 Inverness sleeper in platform 15 at Euston as my Glasgow train departed from adjacent platform 14 : 90022 having hauled the stock there. I must admit from the outside the carriages do seem in want of replacing. Obviously well used and many miles covered . I hope to use the service this summer and just wondered how do users find the accommodation for First and Standard class?

Yes they are a bit tatty.

 

[thetangoman]

A 67 was on the Fort William section last night

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes they are a bit tatty.

Some vinyls would solve that in the short term - it surprises me they've only done a few. The vinyled coaches look decent from the outside.

 

[Freightmaster]

Are all the portions using the 73s now? Just passed the Aberdeen portion with one on it. How are they coping so far?

I'm told that there an issue has been found with 73s running to Aberdeen:
when running through the washer at Clayhills, the locos are getting inundated
with water which is causing problems with the traction equipment...

Apparently some modifications to the washing plant will be required,
so the plan is to switch back to using 73s to Inverness after Easter.


MARK

 

[a_c_skinner]

A friend of mine is keen for class 73 haulage. He is off to the Aviemore area soon and wonders:

1. Is there still a seating coach he could join at Aviemore?
2. What are the odds of a 73?

With apologies if this is obvious, asked, imponderable and so on.

Andrew

 

[najaB]

1. Is there still a seating coach he could join at Aviemore?

Yes you can get seated reservations to/from Aviemore. It's also possible to travel from Aviemore northbound in the morning using a 'day' ticket.

2. What are the odds of a 73?

I think it was posted up-thread that the Inverness portion is back to a 67 at the moment, the 73s are working Fort William and Aberdeen.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Thanks. I wondered if the 73s were still not on the Inverness portions.

AS