Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[NamelessPoster]

A solution such as management offering to take all stock out of service for a month with the staff NOT being paid in this time is hardly the way to avert strike action nor is trying to offer sweeteners such as a bonus payment and London waiting getting paid to staff if the strike was called off.
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None of that is evidence! They haven't been used yet! Those articles were written before any 73/9 had even been completed and the only part that says anything I didn't say is the man from ASLEF making idiot claims about the 73's service history.

The main problems that there have been with locos have been the Class 92s (GBRf) taking over from the Class 90s (previously hired from DBS). Class 92 are newer than Class 90 and much, much more powerful. Lower top speed, but still a top speed well above normal operating speed. They have however had issues with the power supply problems.

So do you have an explanation as to why the same stock used by FIRST is now being used by SERCO and the service is chaotic by comparison with services woefully short-formed, lounge cars withdrawn etc etc. This did not happen with First. Why?

 

[najaB]

If the stock were genuinely dangerous I do not believe it would be allowed off depot.

Hence why sets have been short formed as frequently as they have been.

 

[captainbigun]

Hence why sets have been short formed as frequently as they have been.

How frequent is it though? Lots of qualitive statements, not so many quantitive.

 

[NamelessPoster]

How frequent is it though? Lots of qualitive statements, not so many quantitive.

Lounge cars short on more than half the services over the last three weeks to a month. Also sleeper berths missing (not quite as often) but still far more than in First's day. Seated coaches locked out of use as well meaning passengers either being berthed or bussed.

 

[captainbigun]

That doesn't sound good. But I'd want to see stats to understand for sure. There's a lot of CS bashing going on and it needs to be backed up with detail, not just 'First were better'.

TfS aren't that concerned by all accounts.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Lounge cars short on more than half the services over the last three weeks to a month. Also sleeper berths missing (not quite as often) but still far more than in First's day. Seated coaches locked out of use as well meaning passengers either being berthed or bussed.

I'd like some raw data to process - I don't think much has changed, others think things have got significantly worse, actually crunching some numbers might be more enlightening that people arguing over their own anecdotal evidence.

Is Serco keeping formation data updated on GEMINI/TOPS and is anybody keeping a record of it ?

 

[NamelessPoster]

I'd like some raw data to process - I don't think much has changed, others think things have got significantly worse, actually crunching some numbers might be more enlightening that people arguing over their own anecdotal evidence.

Is Serco keeping formation data updated on GEMINI/TOPS and is anybody keeping a record of it ?

Lets just say (unless someone can unearth undoctored technical logs and records) then my information is first-hand.

 

[captainbigun]

Yes, but it is still anecdotal, there's no numbers.

 

[NamelessPoster]

Yes, but it is still anecdotal, there's no numbers.

Fair enough.

However, I cannot recall the situation being so bad that strike action was called in First's or even National Express's reign. That should tell you alone how bad it has become.

 

[najaB]

How frequent is it though? Lots of qualitive statements, not so many quantitive.

I doubt the numbers will be available to anyone who would be allowed to make them public.
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I fully appreciate that the plural of anecdote isn't data, however when you're hearing the same anecdote from numerous sources it does indicate that there is something to the story.

 

[Starmill]

My berth on a recent journey was OK from the point of view that it was as comfy as they ever get. Despite that, the floor was quite dirty and needed a thorough vacuum, the window blind was broken along with the tray table and the water was cold trickle. One toilet was out of use in our coach and the accessible toilet in the next one was also broken. The onboard staff did not accept Rail Travel Vouchers for payment in the Lounge Car. I guess I should never have actually expected this last point but it's disappointing nonetheless because other TOCs will accept them at buffets - and one might think given the number they are having to issue tempting people to spend them in their Lounge Car is a good way to mitigate some of these expenses. The best looking vegetarian breakfast option of Granola was a little disappointing and too small. I also note that First Class passengers no longer get the fringe benefits of free Underground transfer or £2.50 Lounge Car voucher. The Arran Complementaries were provided, but I warn ye they are entirely useless. What you want is a toothbrush and some toothpaste, as they're the things you're most likely to forget. Not shampoo you can't use because there aren't any showers or sodding pillow spray.

The service itself was also a huge farce with my portion cancelled, a total lack of information and a re-assignment to a berth which I then lost because the coach lettering was amended while I was in the Lounge Car. Cue wandering through 15 coaches at midnight without a clue where your berth is!

 

[najaB]

The Arran Complementaries were provided, but I warn ye they are entirely useless. What you want is a toothbrush and some toothpaste, as they're the things you're most likely to forget. Not shampoo you can't use because there aren't any showers or sodding pillow spray.

I can only assume the shampoo provided making the assumption that you'll be using the showers in the station lounges as you're right that it doesn't make sense otherwise.

 

[IanXC]

I can only assume the shampoo provided making the assumption that you'll be using the showers in the station lounges as you're right that it doesn't make sense otherwise.

The station lounge showers where shampoo and shower gel are provided in wall mounted dispensers?

(Certainly at Euston and Inverness)

 

[najaB]

The station lounge showers where shampoo and shower gel are provided in wall mounted dispensers?

(Certainly at Euston and Inverness)

Yeah, but who wants to use that old rubbish instead of the nice posh Arran Cosmetics stuff?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Yeah, but who wants to use that old rubbish instead of the nice posh Arran Cosmetics stuff?

The Arran Aromatics range is overpowering and sickening. It's a mystery why anybody would want to use it. Keep it and give it away for a Christmas present for someone you don't like, maybe, use it yourself, absolutely not.

I remember having to walk out of an Arran Aromatics stockist once as the smell was overpowering. It was House of Bruar and the prices were similarly overpowering.

It's a mystery how you can make lavender things that strong and not fall foul of the Chemical Weapons ban.

 

[jopsuk]

So do you have an explanation as to why the same stock used by FIRST is now being used by SERCO and the service is chaotic by comparison with services woefully short-formed, lounge cars withdrawn etc etc. This did not happen with First. Why?

That's the carriages, not the locos. I was correcting you about the locos. I never mentioned the carriages. The problems have been almost entirely with the carriages, especially since they came to a short-term contract to hire in 90s whilst the issues with the 92s were fixed. Any issues with 67s (which didn't run entirely flawlessly when First were running Scotrail) are incidental and only noticed more because of all the other problems.

 

[47271]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35156673

Strike is on

Strike action on rail sleeper services between Scotland and London begins later.

There will be no further sleeper services before Christmas, in spite of this normally being an especially busy period.

Members of the RMT union voted to back the 48-hour strike in a dispute with operator Serco over defects on trains.

Serco has insisted that any faults on its rolling stock have been repaired, or will be repaired.

Talks held at the conciliation service Acas on Monday failed to resolve the dispute.

The strike has forced the operator to cancel trains and refund passengers.
'Complete contempt'

The RMT union has said its members are concerned about a range of faults on the trains, which Serco has failed to fix.

It claims there are more than 200 faults including smoke detectors being disconnected, toilets being inoperable, lighting and heating systems not working, lack of hot water in some coaches and air conditioning problems throughout the summer.

The company insisted that many of these issues had been resolved, or were in the process of being resolved.

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said: "The poor service to passengers, in conjunction with the company's failure to address the issues raised by RMT representatives and officials in talks right up to the wire late last night, reached the point where the union decided enough is enough and left us with no option but to put on industrial action before someone is injured.

"That action now goes ahead. Serco never had any intention of taking the talks process seriously and have treated both staff and public with complete contempt throughout."
'Unnecessary action'

He added: "Our members have been unhappy with Serco's management of the iconic service from Scotland to London since the very early days of them taking on this 15-year franchise. This is yet another example of Serco winning public sector contracts and failing to deliver for the tax payer, passengers and staff. "

Peter Strachan, managing director of Caledonian Sleeper, said: "Both Serco, and more importantly over 1,000 of our paying passengers, are being hugely inconvenienced by this wholly unnecessary action by the RMT in the run-up to Christmas.

"We remain open to discussion to avoid any disruption to guests."

Scottish sleeper services are due to resume on 27 December but further industrial action is possible in the new year.

 

[phil1960]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35156673

Strike is on

Peter Strachan, managing director of Caledonian Sleeper, said: "Both Serco, and more importantly over 1,000 of our paying passengers, are being hugely inconvenienced by this wholly unnecessary action by the RMT in the run-up to Christmas.

Understand tickets can be refunded or changed to another sleeper service on a different date. No acceptance of tickets on other operators?

Surely Serco could have at least chartered overnight coaches to run between London, Edinburgh & Glasgow with ticket acceptance on Scotrail services further north?

Phil

 

[sng7]

Taking this quote from the article "The company insisted that many of these issues had been resolved, or were in the process of being resolved." It doesn't exactly fill me with confidence surely all issues should be rectified asap and if this is sercos attitude i can see why the staff have objections to it

 

[robertclark125]

Last year, in my annual awards, I dished out the "It's better together "award to Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government, saying that the sleeper should've been kept in with the main Scotrail franchise. Having read the issues with one passenger, saying their berth needed a good hoover and a blind was broken, I'm beginning to think that, when First had it, the sleeper was regarded as "their" train, and so it was looked after very well.

But on the other hand, it also depends upon what Serco are paying other firms to maintain their stock. If Serco are paying other firms peanuts to maintain stock, then a peanuts service is what you will get.

 

[andrewkeith5]

Taking this quote from the article "The company insisted that many of these issues had been resolved, or were in the process of being resolved." It doesn't exactly fill me with confidence surely all issues should be rectified asap and if this is sercos attitude i can see why the staff have objections to it

It does take time to resolve issues....provided they are in the process of being resolved as quickly as possible (which might be pretty slowly given the very specific nature of the stock) then what evidence does anyone have that they aren't being resolved ASAP?

 

[Carntyne]

It does take time to resolve issues....provided they are in the process of being resolved as quickly as possible (which might be pretty slowly given the very specific nature of the stock) then what evidence does anyone have that they aren't being resolved ASAP?

The staff who are currently taking industrial action due to the condition of the fleet seem to be pretty clear it's not happening fast enough.

No one takes this action unless it's necessary, especially 3 days before Christmas.

 

[najaB]

The staff who are currently taking industrial action due to the condition of the fleet seem to be pretty clear it's not happening fast enough.

No one takes this action unless it's necessary, especially 3 days before Christmas.

It's also worth noting that they had originally planned to take action in the summer, but postponed it to give the operator time to try to rectify the faults. From speaking to a couple of the Sleeper Hosts, things have gotten worse rather than better.

 

[NamelessPoster]

Since grievances were taken to RMT in the Autumn assurances were made things would improve and SERCO were given time to prove themselves. Since that point things have deteriorated further with a great number of lounge cars disappearing from the service and other faults still rumbling on.

If SERCO were serious about avoiding strike action then why did they cancel the services tonight and tomorrow only an hour after the strike was announced? And even with talks going on yesterday why were passengers moved from today and tomorrow's services onto last night's? Isn't that a glaring admittance on their behalf that nothing was going to be solved by further talks? Surely, you hope for the best and keep things active and don't cancel services and word your website such as services may be cancelled. And then if talks fail you (as others have said) put on buses for those travelling tonight and tomorrow.
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Also I am still awaiting an explanation from within or without the company as to why the same rolling stock used by First less than four months earlier could suddenly have an explosion of faults. First managed the same stock so much better. Why?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Understand tickets can be refunded or changed to another sleeper service on a different date. No acceptance of tickets on other operators?

Seemingly not, though in most cases an Off Peak Return will be cheaper per leg than a Sleeper ticket, so a refund and a new ticket will be cheaper than dealing with acceptance.

Surely Serco could have at least chartered overnight coaches to run between London, Edinburgh & Glasgow with ticket acceptance on Scotrail services further north?

Again, refund, book a Megabus/Nat Ex and save a fortune for the few wanting to do this, it's not as if there hasn't been tons of notice to do this.
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If SERCO were serious about avoiding strike action then why did they cancel the services tonight and tomorrow only an hour after the strike was announced? And even with talks going on yesterday why were passengers moved from today and tomorrow's services onto last night's? Isn't that a glaring admittance on their behalf that nothing was going to be solved by further talks?

Because people have to be able to plan, especially before Christmas, and they can't plan if you don't take the action early enough.

I think they have done the right thing in that regard.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Having read the issues with one passenger, saying their berth needed a good hoover and a blind was broken, I'm beginning to think that, when First had it, the sleeper was regarded as "their" train, and so it was looked after very well.

But on the other hand, it also depends upon what Serco are paying other firms to maintain their stock. If Serco are paying other firms peanuts to maintain stock, then a peanuts service is what you will get.

Broken blinds were quite common under First as well; they very easily get jammed if not used properly and then people just pull them as hard as they can with the inevitable results.

Not that the blinds ever do much good anyway - they let so much light in through the material...

 

[NamelessPoster]

Seemingly not, though in most cases an Off Peak Return will be cheaper per leg than a Sleeper ticket, so a refund and a new ticket will be cheaper than dealing with acceptance.



Again, refund, book a Megabus/Nat Ex and save a fortune for the few wanting to do this, it's not as if there hasn't been tons of notice to do this.
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Because people have to be able to plan, especially before Christmas, and they can't plan if you don't take the action early enough.

I think they have done the right thing in that regard.

All very well but what would have happened had the strike then been called off last night if talks had been successful? People would have been forced to change their day of travel for nothing and trains tonight and tomorrow would have been largely passenger-less.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All very well but what would have happened had the strike then been called off last night if talks had been successful? People would have been forced to change their day of travel for nothing and trains tonight and tomorrow would have been largely passenger-less.

They would have used their alternative method of transport, and got where they were going.

If CS lose money on a couple of nights' trains that is really neither here nor there - passenger numbers would be disrupted near Christmas anyway.

 

[captainbigun]

You can't have your cake and eat it. Feeling guilty?

 

[ainsworth74]

All very well but what would have happened had the strike then been called off last night if talks had been successful? People would have been forced to change their day of travel for nothing and trains tonight and tomorrow would have been largely passenger-less.

They can't win though can they? If they don't cancel and the trains end up being cancelled this morning then people have a matter of hours to consider alternative arrangements and they'd like be criticised for making the decision so late.

So instead they cancel early to try and give time for alternatives to be considered/arranged and then get blasted for doing that!