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Caledonian Sleeper discussion

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GM228

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90045 has done what skoda's usually do and expired on the up Glasgow. 92 to the rescue :lol:

The green ones will presumably only replace the DB 90 once FL are able to supply the full 4/5x90.

90045 must be having identity issues thinking it's a 92!

FL are hiring a second 90 to GBRf from next week apparently!
 
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Highland37

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Hmm, this is proving to be a pretty unreliable service.

I always try to support the railway and each year so travel to Bourg St Maurice by train (sleeper, Eurostar, SNCF). The Sleeper is by far the most unreliable part of the journey and every time I go, there is a problem of some sort.
 

Bodiddly

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I actually feel a little bit sorry for Serco here. They are being let down by their suppliers. With such a complex logistical marathon every night just to get the sleepers running they need to be able to count on every part of the supply chain whether it is down to traction, traincrew, catering, cleaning etc, each thing plays it's part and if one fails it all fails.
What I cannot understand though is Serco's take it on the chin attitude towards these things. It's not the same Serco that I know that would fight tooth and nail for every lost penny. Maybe there are severe words being spoken behind the scenes but there doesn't seem any urgency for these matters to be resolved. I think it is way past the point that the recent failings can be attributed to teething problems.
Serco need to realise that they are being slaughtered here by their sub contractors and senior management have to sort this before it is too late. The reputation of the overnight sleeper is fast eroding and it is becoming a gamble that you may turn up on time or a chance that you won't.
 

Blindtraveler

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The cynic in me says that Serco are simply the management company tasked with running it into the ground so the new stock order can be cancelled and the service scrapped. Sad but I fear so.
 

Johnuk123

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The cynic in me says that Serco are simply the management company tasked with running it into the ground so the new stock order can be cancelled and the service scrapped. Sad but I fear so.

You could be spot on with that assumption.
 

Chrism20

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The cynic in me says that Serco are simply the management company tasked with running it into the ground so the new stock order can be cancelled and the service scrapped. Sad but I fear so.

If you are being cynical you are not the only one as I've thought the same for a while.

I understand the logic in splitting the franchise, however I cannot help thinking that it would have been better left in the main franchise with a contractual obligation to procure new stock and promote the service on a better way.

Whilst First Group had their faults they were able to run a robust and pretty reliable service.
 

Blindtraveler

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If you can take a short break from thinking "Oo eck what an embarrasing mess the Caly is in" theres a huge irony that a 92 had to assist the 90 brought in to, er, well, save the 92s bacon? The whole thing would make a very entertaining blog or even a thumpin good book!
 

Observer

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If you are being cynical you are not the only one as I've thought the same for a while.

I understand the logic in splitting the franchise, however I cannot help thinking that it would have been better left in the main franchise with a contractual obligation to procure new stock and promote the service on a better way.

Whilst First Group had their faults they were able to run a robust and pretty reliable service.
Yet First Group wanted rid of the sleeper. Their bid wasn't great, they just put one in so they could look good.

I wonder what Arriva had in their bid. I'm sure if Serco get stripped they might still be interested. Plus with it being a DB company it'd put some faith in the traction as they'd no doubt put DBS back on them given GBRf's problems which is one of the main reasons why the sleeper has been a let down lately.
 

ainsworth74

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Yet First Group wanted rid of the sleeper. Their bid wasn't great, they just put one in so they could look good.

Which is interesting because FGW are running the Night Riviera off their own back. It isn't a specified service within the current franchise so they don't have to run it if they don't want to (and they've actually invested a decent amount in the fleet in refurbishment).
 

Chrism20

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Yet First Group wanted rid of the sleeper. Their bid wasn't great, they just put one in so they could look good.

Their bid wasn't great or their bid was not all singing and dancing like the others?

As the current operator (At the time of the bid) they would have had exposure to far more figures etc than the other bidders and perhaps their bid was based on what was achievable rather than some made up formula that looks great on paper. In short they would have known (better than the rest) what was and what was not doable for the subsidy on offer.

Apparently the bids were awarded on quality, time will tell if the travelling public would prefer reliability over on-board entertainment.
 
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87031

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Correct me if i'm wrong but 87002 and now 86101 both have a 100% no failure record when they work the sleepers. Says it all really built to last. How they wish there was a couple more around to save having to resort using duffs etc on 1s26 from Carstairs.
 

modernrail

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The Delay Repay claims must be starting to hurt Serco. I have just purchased tickets to see the folks in Wales using some of the £200 of vouchers I received after my 3 hour sleeper delay. The costs to Serco of settling these claims must be substantial by now and a real worry to the Serco FD.
 

ainsworth74

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Correct me if i'm wrong but 87002 and now 86101 both have a 100% no failure record when they work the sleepers. Says it all really built to last.

Well they're not exactly working as many services as 92s are they ;)
 
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Their bid wasn't great or their bid was not all singing and dancing like the others?

As the current operator (At the time of the bid) they would have had exposure to far more figures etc than the other bidders and perhaps their bid was based on what was achievable rather than some made up formula that looks great on paper. In short they would have known (better than the rest) what was and what was not doable for the subsidy on offer.

Apparently the bids were awarded on quality, time will tell if the travelling public would prefer reliability over on-board entertainment.

Certainly I use it as a reasonably cost effective way of traveling without wasting a day. I can do a full day's work in the Midlands and be back home in N Scotland just after breakfast the next day, instead of dinner time.

I don't want comedians, ceilidhs or any other bull. My concern still is that fares will rise to pay for this nonsense that many don't care for. I'm not sure the Scottish Government or Serco fully understood the customer base.
 

CosherB

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Correct me if i'm wrong but 87002 and now 86101 both have a 100% no failure record when they work the sleepers. Says it all really built to last. How they wish there was a couple more around to save having to resort using duffs etc on 1s26 from Carstairs.

Hardly a traction solution for the long term - hence why they were hired by GBRf for ECS moves along with 86401. They'll be useless with the CAF stock when it arrives (as will the 90's for that matter).
 

87031

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Not long term but it's safe to say they have bailed them out of trouble a fair bit now.
 

HH

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I was working for a potential bidder on this and I advised them not to bid. In my opinion the risk/reward ratio was all wrong for a standalone sleeper, apart from possibly DB/Arriva (because of their current operations) or the winner of the ScotRail franchise (which of course you couldn't know at the time).

I suspect that this was a naive bid from Serco, which doesn't bode well for the future.
 

GM228

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I read somewhere that the Caledonian sleeper contract is worth £6.6 million per annum to GBRf!

I wonder how much of that is being lost in penalties and the extra charges associated with the hire-ins, any idea how much the hire-ins cost?

Who is responsible for paying the NR penalties, Serco or GBRf? I'm guessing if it's Serco then they have a remuneration clause with GBRf when it's a traction issue.
 

CosherB

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I read somewhere that the Caledonian sleeper contract is worth £6.6 million per annum to GBRf!

I wonder how much of that is being lost in penalties and the extra charges associated with the hire-ins, any idea how much the hire-ins cost?

Who is responsible for paying the NR penalties, Serco or GBRf? I'm guessing if it's Serco then they have a remuneration clause with GBRf when it's a traction issue.

And GBRf can stiff Freightliner and DBS when their traction fails too?
 

sdrennan

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Looks like more issues after a failure last night.
the Edinburgh to euston was cancelled last night and now they are running it ecs from polmadie but seems to be running late
Also the highland was still showing at Euston platform over an hour late and still not departed

Looks like a chance of more late arrivals tomorrow
 

Dave1954

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1S25 Has just departed 0005 ........ 169 late
Regards Dave1954

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
1S26 ........ is still at the platform :(
 

najaB

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So what happened on the 18th?

I'm planning a trip and would dearly love to reacquaint myself with the Sleeper but the risk of mega disruption just seems too great at present.
I've done six or seven trips since Secro took over and haven't been more than two minutes late on any of them.
 

ainsworth74

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I've done six or seven trips since Secro took over and haven't been more than two minutes late on any of them.

In my, admittedly, small sample size of one trip I haven't had any delays either!
 
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