Calder Valley staff increase

[strowger]

Northern seem to have added a number of revenue protection staff in the mornings along the Calder Valley line over the last few weeks. I think the new people work for a private security company, rather than Northern, although some of them seem able to sell tickets.

Todmorden has gone from a single chap (and cat) in the ticket office, first of all to having 2 revenue staff in the tunnel, and now to 3 in the tunnel and 2 more on the carpark entrance.

Hebden Bridge also seems to have several in attendance every morning, as does Sowerby Bridge.

I'll be vague as I don't want to get anyone in to trouble, but I have good reason to believe that some of these people are being paid to travel quite considerable distances to and from work each day.

Before the extra people on the platforms appeared, I'd noticed that there were increasing number of staff in Northern uniform selling tickets on the train.

Does anyone know if this is a "Metro" initiative or a Northern one, and how the numbers stack up regarding extra ticket sales vs staff costs?

 

[Geeves]

Those people are based out of Manchester Victoria. I believe they did some surveys and found alot of money was being lost up that way, also the amount of STM contract staff staff at Vic will be reduced soon when they install the automatic barriers and bring in people directly employed by Northern rather than STM.

 

[CalderRail]

They are a pain in the arse at Hebden Bridge and don't add any revenue protection that isn't already done by the on-train guard.

Much like pre-boarding checks everywhere.

 

[strowger]

They seem to have reduced drastically in number and effectiveness now. Weren't cost-effective? Or just management attention has moved elsewhere?

I had the impression (from queues) that blocking the tunnel was generating a fair bit of revenue, at least in morning peak.

Last week they had someone on the car park gate, which is a useless place to check tickets as it's how anyone arriving by car would get in to the ticket office.

Down today to one standing near the ticket machine and not stopping anyone, and one on platform 1 at the top of the stairs, repeatedly asking for tickets from people en-route to the ticket office to purchase one.

Pathetic.

It looks like there are fewer at Hebden and Sowerby Bridge now too?

 

[Geeves]

They probably have them based on another 3 or 4 day line block somewhere in the NW. When I was at working at Vic last week they were traveling on the first train out to Halifax. Further everyday!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Would these staff to which reference has been made have had any effect on the matter of reminding intending passengers of the need to purchase a rail ticket from an open ticket office prior to boarding the train.....or has this never been a problem at Hebden Bridge or other localised railway stations on the Calderdale Line ?

 

[strowger]

It's very much a feature of that line - but all that's ever been done to people not holding a valid ticket, is sell them one.

There are a number of unstaffed stations along the line and very much a culture of "just buy on the train if you get asked, and hopefully get away with it".

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The RPI's will have fun at Brighouse as there are four entrances. Car Park, Huddersfield Road, Railway Street and Gooder Lane ramp.

 

[CalderRail]

Would these staff to which reference has been made have had any effect on the matter of reminding intending passengers of the need to purchase a rail ticket from an open ticket office prior to boarding the train.....or has this never been a problem at Hebden Bridge or other localised railway stations on the Calderdale Line ?

The vast majority of people who travel from Hebden Bridge Station have West Yorkshire Metro Tickets.

These ticket checks are an inconvenience, nothing more.

I had to argue with one of them to get onto the platform to collect pre-booked tickets (going to York, outside WYM area).

The ones they had at the beginning of this weren't too bad, but the lads they have this week are just going through the motions & not really understanding the job.

They also can't actually stop anyone from leaving without a ticket, because none of the trains are giving the "please retain your tickets for inspection" announcement, so some people ditch them in the bins on the train or the opposite platform.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They also can't actually stop anyone from leaving without a ticket, because none of the trains are giving the "please retain your tickets for inspection" announcement, so some people ditch them in the bins on the train or the opposite platform.

That sounds something of an oversight by the management who have caused these staff that are referred to, to be actually at these railway stations.

 

[Hebden Bridger]

Would these staff to which reference has been made have had any effect on the matter of reminding intending passengers of the need to purchase a rail ticket from an open ticket office prior to boarding the train.....or has this never been a problem at Hebden Bridge or other localised railway stations on the Calderdale Line ?

Well, I recently journeyed from Hebden into darkest Lancashire and had a chat with a nice young lady guard (well young compared with me) whose opening line was "I don't know why I'm bothering checking your ticket, all the nice people from Hebden always have tickets, I dread getting to Burnley"

But on a rather less anecdotal level, WYMetro did a study a while back on fare evasion and even at the unstaffed stations fare evasion on the Calder Valley line was well below local and national averages, because as CalderRail hints at over 80% of the journeys are into Leeds or Manchester and secondly because fare levels are low.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

These ticket checks are an inconvenience, nothing more.

I agree. I haven't travelled that much recently, but in the once-in-a-blue-moon occasions there were ticket checks at Hebden in the rush hour in the past (with more experienced staff), the RPI with the ticket machine was often deployed/ had deployed themselves/had agreed with the bloke in the ticket office to sell tickets to those in the queue for the ticket office, rather than twiddling their thumbs waiting to sell tickets to fare evaders.

 

[Welshman]

They also can't actually stop anyone from leaving without a ticket, because none of the trains are giving the "please retain your tickets for inspection" announcement, so some people ditch them in the bins on the train or the opposite platform.

Whilst that may be technically correct, in all my 55 year's or so of travelling by train, I've always retained my ticket until being clear of the station building, without having to be officially instructed to. Rather like retaining my supermarket till receipt until I'm clear of the security doors and out in the car-park! Perhaps that's just my being cautious?

 

[northwichcat]

They also can't actually stop anyone from leaving without a ticket, because none of the trains are giving the "please retain your tickets for inspection" announcement, so some people ditch them in the bins on the train or the opposite platform.

Why not? They do on in the former FNW area even though there are usually no announcements about retaining tickets.

 

[Clip]

The vast majority of people who travel from Hebden Bridge Station have West Yorkshire Metro Tickets.

.

Fact or opinion?

These ticket checks are an inconvenience, nothing more.

Yes, that is what they will be. I take it you pretty much dont understand revenue protection that much.

The idea of having RPIs as these various small stations dotted around close to the bigger stations is so that not only do you board with the correct ticket(you would be surprised how many people just dont) but also that once the train gets to the larger places like Huddersfield,Leeds,Bradford and even the Manchesters, those who have got on further back but say they have got on closer on their journey actually get caught for evading their fare. And it works too.

Just check in the Disputes section of this forum for the countless threads where people have been caught.

Just because you dont understand why they do this and it inconvenieces you does not mean that it is wrong that they do this.

 

[northwichcat]

The idea of having RPIs as these various small stations dotted around close to the bigger stations is so that not only do you board with the correct ticket(you would be surprised how many people just dont) but also that once the train gets to the larger places like Huddersfield,Leeds,Bradford and even the Manchesters, those who have got on further back but say they have got on closer on their journey actually get caught for evading their fare. And it works too.

Sometimes the smaller stations can get a lot of usage at peak times and not much usage throughout the day. Northern have sometimes put RPIs at Greenbank station, on the border of the town of Northwich and the village of Hartford, which is near 2 high schools, a FE college, numerous primary schools and a private school. As you can imagine there's a lot of school/college pupils using the station.

 

[CalderRail]

Fact or opinion?

Admittedly I travel on the morning & evening rush hour trains more often than not - but then these ticket inspections appear (so I hear) to only be in the rush times anyway.

But yes, from observation the vast majority of people travelling from Hebden Bridge towards HFX, BDI & LDS have WYMetro cards. Ofc for BDI & LDS you need a ticket to exit the station.

((insert rant about the BDI ticket line gates being stupidly narrow & undermanned for a busy station where over half the rush hour arrivals don't have a ticket that opens them here))

Going the opposite way it's probably about the same proportion of people having HDB-MCV season tickets. Despite the hippy reputation, Hebden Bridge is very much commuter territory for the surrounding cities nowadays.

Just because you dont understand why they do this and it inconvenieces you does not mean that it is wrong that they do this.

I tried an experiment today at both TOD & HBD. I completely blanked the ticket inspectors & just walked right past without acknowledging them.

They didn't bother challenging me.

Suffice to say the lads that Northern Rail have contracted for this work (they blatantly aren't Northern Rail employees) aren't really serious about doing it properly.

 

[strowger]

But yes, from observation the vast majority of people travelling from Hebden Bridge towards HFX, BDI & LDS have WYMetro cards. Ofc for BDI & LDS you need a ticket to exit the station.

IME many people there have ordinary railway seasons - which are quite a lot cheaper than WYM cards for people with no use for busses.

I do always pay for my journey and obey railway bylaws - but if I were minded to evade them, I would experience no practical difficulty in exiting the station at LDS.

 

[Clip]

Admittedly I travel on the morning & evening rush hour trains more often than not - but then these ticket inspections appear (so I hear) to only be in the rush times anyway.

But yes, from observation the vast majority of people travelling from Hebden Bridge towards HFX, BDI & LDS have WYMetro cards. Ofc for BDI & LDS you need a ticket to exit the station.

((insert rant about the BDI ticket line gates being stupidly narrow & undermanned for a busy station where over half the rush hour arrivals don't have a ticket that opens them here))

Going the opposite way it's probably about the same proportion of people having HDB-MCV season tickets. Despite the hippy reputation, Hebden Bridge is very much commuter territory for the surrounding cities nowadays.



I tried an experiment today at both TOD & HBD. I completely blanked the ticket inspectors & just walked right past without acknowledging them.

They didn't bother challenging me.

Suffice to say the lads that Northern Rail have contracted for this work (they blatantly aren't Northern Rail employees) aren't really serious about doing it properly.

For the first part - so you see what ticket all these people hold, over the whole of the peak AM/Pm area and are satisfied that they hold these tickets? I simply do not believe you.

For the second part you have completely missed my point about the revenue block.

They have them there so when people who have travelled further afield tell the people at the barriers that they have travelled from Hebden Bridge(for example) they can turn around and say no they havent as they have had RPIs there all day.

 

[CalderRail]

They have them there so when people who have travelled further afield tell the people at the barriers that they have travelled from Hebden Bridge(for example) they can turn around and say no they havent as they have had RPIs there all day.

They *don't* have RPIs there all day, and they *aren't* stopping people boarding or leaving without their tickets checked, because the lads they have contracted to do it aren't really bothered enough to check.

 

[lincolnshire]

Admittedly I travel on the morning & evening rush hour trains more often than not - but then these ticket inspections appear (so I hear) to only be in the rush times anyway.

But yes, from observation the vast majority of people travelling from Hebden Bridge towards HFX, BDI & LDS have WYMetro cards. Ofc for BDI & LDS you need a ticket to exit the station.

((insert rant about the BDI ticket line gates being stupidly narrow & undermanned for a busy station where over half the rush hour arrivals don't have a ticket that opens them here))

Going the opposite way it's probably about the same proportion of people having HDB-MCV season tickets. Despite the hippy reputation, Hebden Bridge is very much commuter territory for the surrounding cities nowadays.



I tried an experiment today at both TOD & HBD. I completely blanked the ticket inspectors & just walked right past without acknowledging them.

They didn't bother challenging me.

Suffice to say the lads that Northern Rail have contracted for this work (they blatantly aren't Northern Rail employees) aren't really serious about doing it properly.

Please please don,t talk in abbreviations as we don,t all know what they mean, if for example you live down south where is TOD & HBD god knows.

Its not hard work to hit a few more keys for the correct locations so we all know where your talking about.

Its also in other postings on here, we are not all railway employee,s so not everyone knows what your talking about, so please no more abbreviations.

To the moderators please move this to the correct location and also ask poster,s to this forum to not to talk in abbreviations for the sake of others been able to understand what they are talking about.

 

[CalderRail]

It's not hard to figure out that, in a thread about the Calder Valley line, that these will be stations on that line.

Also; if you are going to attack someone for grammatical issues with a post, try to use apostrophes properly & not commas.

 

[chorleyjeff]

It's not hard to figure out that, in a thread about the Calder Valley line, that these will be stations on that line.

But it would be useful to know which Calderdale stations are referred to.
Most people are not familiar with the detail of Calderdale geography.
I agree the use of abbreviations is irritating when Idon't know what they mean.

 

[Clip]

They *don't* have RPIs there all day, and they *aren't* stopping people boarding or leaving without their tickets checked, because the lads they have contracted to do it aren't really bothered enough to check.

*sigh* missing my point again. I wont carry on this as you really dont seem to understand what I am telling you.

In fact, to broaden your horizons, dip into the disputes thread and search for anything to do with Northern rail and then you will find exactly what I am talking about and then maybe you will understand it a bit better *sigh*

 

[lincolnshire]

But it would be useful to know which Calderdale stations are referred to.
Most people are not familiar with the detail of Calderdale geography.
I agree the use of abbreviations is irritating when Idon't know what they mean.

Well said someone else who thinks the same as me, its not asking too much as not all of us who read the post on here are experts on the Calderdale area.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Going the opposite way it's probably about the same proportion of people having HDB-MCV season tickets.

Being somewhat of a stalwart on The Station Code Quiz on the Quizzes and Games forum, when I see certain codes that are so obviously wrong that I feel the need to intercede.

Whilst MCV is most certainly the correct code for Manchester Victoria, HDB is the code for Haydon Bridge station, half-way along the Newcastle to Carlisle line. I am surprised to note that season ticket sales between these two railway stations are one that will be any great number..hock:hock:

For the sake of good order, the other five station codes named in the remainder of your posting translate as:-
BDI....Bradford Interchange
HBD...Hebden Bridge
HFX....Halifax
LDS....Leeds
TOD....Todmorden

 

[CalderRail]

Yep, that one was a typo :P

 

[Hebden Bridger]

Being somewhat of a stalwart on The Station Code Quiz on the Quizzes and Games forum, when I see certain codes that are so obviously wrong that I feel the need to intercede.

Whilst MCV is most certainly the correct code for Manchester Victoria, HDB is the code for Haydon Bridge station, half-way along the Newcastle to Carlisle line. I am surprised to note that season ticket sales between these two railway stations are one that will be any great number..hock:hock:

For the sake of good order, the other five station codes named in the remainder of your posting translate as:-
BDI....Bradford Interchange
HBD...Hebden Bridge
HFX....Halifax
LDS....Leeds
TOD....Todmorden

I must admit that Tod (not capitals) also creeps into my posts as it is a very common local abbreviation for Todmorden, as is Hebden for Hebden Bridge.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The idea of having RPIs as these various small stations dotted around close to the bigger stations is so that not only do you board with the correct ticket(you would be surprised how many people just dont)

Go-on then surprise me, what % of passengers on the Calder Valley line board without the correct ticket? Since I've already posted this, I doubt any factual answer on your part would surprise me.

But on a rather less anecdotal level, WYMetro did a study a while back on fare evasion and even at the unstaffed stations fare evasion on the Calder Valley line was well below local and national averages, because as CalderRail hints at over 80% of the journeys are into Leeds or Manchester and secondly because fare levels are low.

I'm sorry I cant find the report now, so I will obviously defer to you if you can provide any actual facts, complete with the source, rather than anecdotal rubbish that is merely a waste of pixels.

As I didn't say in my post another conclusion of the report was that the most cost effective means of improving revenue would be the installation of ticket gates at larger stations and ticket machines at smaller stations, increasing revenue protection staff was not felt to be cost effective.

I agree with Calder Rail, these particular revenue checks seem pointless. I would go further and say they are a pointless waste of taxpayer's money given they're being paid for out of the huge public subsidy given to Northern.