Calais day tripper

[willD]

Before the pandemic it was possible to get a cheap day return with Southeastern that included boat travel to Calais. It was suspended while P&O stopped taking foot passengers.

Is it likely to come back?

 

[Alfonso]

I hope so

 

[danm14]

Rail and Sail tickets to Ireland were suspended for much of 2020 and early 2021. They came back shortly after travel was permitted again without so much as a fare increase. I was very surprised (and relieved - as my reason for using them is fear of flight) because I had expected Covid to be the convenient excuse to finally abolish them or significantly hike the price (£56 anytime single from London to Glasgow, anyone?)

With this in mind - and with duty free now being available on ferries to France being a massive pull towards day trips by ferry - I would think things look good.

You should also remember that until four days ago absolutely nobody could travel to France and back, regardless of vaccination status, without taking at least one mandatory paid-for Covid test. I would expect this overwhelmingly reduced the desirability of a day trip.

 

[Lewlew]

Does the bus between Dover station and the port still run?

 

[willD]

Just had a look on the P and O website... 90 minute check-in for foot passengers! Might as well swim. Or take a bike. That counts as a vehicle so can be checked in 45 minutes before, right?

 

[AlbertBeale]

Just had a look on the P and O website... 90 minute check-in for foot passengers! Might as well swim. Or take a bike. That counts as a vehicle so can be checked in 45 minutes before, right?

I've often done the London-Calais day return with a bike. It means you don't have to worry about the silly lack of a decent bus connection between the station and the port in Dover, and you get on board via the vehicle route (at least you always used to) rather than the passenger route, which makes it quick and easy with negligible check-in time if it's not a busy boat. And then of course it save the mile's slog on foot at the Calais end too to get into town. I do hope this continues to be possible...

 

[miklcct]

Just had a look on the P and O website... 90 minute check-in for foot passengers! Might as well swim. Or take a bike. That counts as a vehicle so can be checked in 45 minutes before, right?

Are there any bike restrictions on the HS1 between St Pancras and Dover?

 

[Lewlew]

Are there any bike restrictions on the HS1 between St Pancras and Dover?

Cycles on Trains | Southeastern Railway

Find out when you can use bikes on Southeastern trains, bike racks and docks at stations. Plus details of our Brompton hire scheme.

www.southeasternrailway.co.uk

Basically, folding bikes only during peaks in and out of London and any bike in the off peaks.

 

[miklcct]

Cycles on Trains | Southeastern Railway

Find out when you can use bikes on Southeastern trains, bike racks and docks at stations. Plus details of our Brompton hire scheme.

www.southeasternrailway.co.uk

Basically, folding bikes only during peaks in and out of London and any bike in the off peaks.

Thanks. So even the train company is bike-unfriendly and doesn't want people travel in this way between London and Calais.

Might as well swim.

I know this is a joke, but I still can't get out of my last year's experience whenever I think about Dover & Folkestone, and by extension, the HS1. Look at New Zealand, the ferry company gifts a lifetime pass for successful Cook Strait swimmers. Unfortunately there is no such thing at P&O.

 

[Lewlew]

Thanks. So even the train company is bike-unfriendly and doesn't want people travel in this way between London and Calais.

I think it's more a case of physically being able to fit them on. It'll only affect people heading to Calais after 5pm from London so I can't see it being an issue for many people at all.

 

[Ediswan]

I've often done the London-Calais day return with a bike. It means you don't have to worry about the silly lack of a decent bus connection between the station and the port in Dover, and you get on board via the vehicle route (at least you always used to) rather than the passenger route, which makes it quick and easy with negligible check-in time if it's not a busy boat.

The current P&O wording is gibberish:

If you are travelling without a vehicle you must board the ferry at the same time as regular foot passengers, personally ensuring that your bike is safely stowed away below deck.

If you are boarding up the vehicle ramp, why would it matter how this is timed compared to foot passengers. To board with the foot passengers, you would have to take the bike on the shuttle bus, then carry the bike down the narrow stairs to the vehicle deck, against the flow, which seems highly unlikely.

As for Calais, has anybody yet taken a bike on a crossing using either of the two new berths (10 and 11) ?

 

[miklcct]

It'll only affect people heading to Calais after 5pm from London so I can't see it being an issue for many people at all.

This is what exactly the working class do for a weekend out in France, if they commute by bike in London.

 

[duncombec]

This is what exactly the working class do for a weekend out in France, if they commute by bike in London.

The what?

I would suggest the number of customers fitting the restrictive definition of "people who work", yet would be put off because they can't take their bike on any train (given it's the same restrictions regardless of whether High Speed or regular service) to get to Dover that leaves London between 4 and 7pm to be somewhere in the region of zero.

 

[Haywain]

Does the bus between Dover station and the port still run?

That stopped running quite a few years ago (getting on for 10 years, I think).

 

[bspahh]

The what?

I would suggest the number of customers fitting the restrictive definition of "people who work", yet would be put off because they can't take their bike on any train (given it's the same restrictions regardless of whether High Speed or regular service) to get to Dover that leaves London between 4 and 7pm to be somewhere in the region of zero.

If you want to take a bike on any train, on a bus or in a taxi, then you need a folding bike.

The Brompton is the best in its niche of bikes that fold quickly into a relatively compact space and that are reasonable to ride. There are other folding bikes which are cheaper, lighter, nicer to ride, faster to fold and more compact when folded, but they usually beat a Brompton on one or two of these features and lose on several more. To take one on a train, a bike needs to "fold". The rules don't say how compact it should be. Some "folding" bikes are still quite bulky, and you might find that you get turned away sometimes for a rail replacement bus. Sometimes you need to be able to cover it to turn it from being a "bicycle" into "luggage".

I rarely lock my Brompton because I can store it next to my desk, or fold it and wheel it around if I'm shopping.

For A to B journey times, it helps that at the start you can fold and unfold it in 10 seconds, which is quicker than it takes to lock and unlock a full size bike and remove battery lights whilst its parked. Compared to driving, you save in not having to find a parking space, and then walk from the parking space to your destination.

If you want a bike that can do a 5km journey in 9 minutes, then you either need a fast bike, and be prepared to be sweaty when you arrive, or get an electric bike. Electric folding bikes are more expensive and heavier than normal bikes, but a lot easier to charge than an electric car.

 

[Lewlew]

That stopped running quite a few years ago (getting on for 10 years, I think).

Thanks, I remember getting it once and also walking another time but couldn't remember in which order.

 

[willD]

If you want to take a bike on any train, on a bus or in a taxi, then you need a folding bike.

The Brompton is the best in its niche of bikes that fold quickly into a relatively compact space and that are reasonable to ride. There are other folding bikes which are cheaper, lighter, nicer to ride, faster to fold and more compact when folded, but they usually beat a Brompton on one or two of these features and lose on several more. To take one on a train, a bike needs to "fold". The rules don't say how compact it should be. Some "folding" bikes are still quite bulky, and you might find that you get turned away sometimes for a rail replacement bus. Sometimes you need to be able to cover it to turn it from being a "bicycle" into "luggage".

I rarely lock my Brompton because I can store it next to my desk, or fold it and wheel it around if I'm shopping.

For A to B journey times, it helps that at the start you can fold and unfold it in 10 seconds, which is quicker than it takes to lock and unlock a full size bike and remove battery lights whilst its parked. Compared to driving, you save in not having to find a parking space, and then walk from the parking space to your destination.

If you want a bike that can do a 5km journey in 9 minutes, then you either need a fast bike, and be prepared to be sweaty when you arrive, or get an electric bike. Electric folding bikes are more expensive and heavier than normal bikes, but a lot easier to charge than an electric car.

I was just thinking this sounds like a great Brompton adventure!

At risk of going off-topic a little bit here, it's a shame that such adventures are only available to people who can afford a decent folding bike. It seems like the efforts to cram as many seats as possible in to trains discriminate unfairly against those who can't afford a bike like a Brompton.

And where bike provision does exist it's often inaccessible to disabled cyclists... (e.g. Class 80x) who in the decision-makers' eyes don't exist because they think every disabled person is in a wheelchair and using some combination of trains, buses and taxis.

 

[Medicy]

There were three bus services very early morning between Dover Priory and the Eastern Docks (I'm assuming they were aimed at people working at the port, but used it myself using sail-rail in Feb 2020). Equally, before the pandemic, there were summer-only free(?) buses between the Port of Calais and the town centre, but they've obviously stopped since, sadly.

 

[alex397]

That stopped running quite a few years ago (getting on for 10 years, I think).

I believe the last time it ran (the foot passenger shuttle between Dover Priory Station and the Eastern Docks) was August 2014. Since then, the fleet of buses (interestingly operated directly by P&O rather than contracted) has just operated on site shuttling the foot passengers from terminal to boat, well until Covid struck.

National Express coach route 007 from London did used to terminate at the Eastern Docks. This lasted until relatively recently, possibly only in the last couple of years? It’s certainly not on the current timetable anyway.

Stagecoach did run an hourly 15A between Deal and Canterbury which ran via the Eastern Docks. This ceased serving the docks in 2016.

The only public transport to the Eastern Docks today (one of the largest employers of Dover and surrounding areas, if not the biggest) are a handful of early morning journeys on Dover town bus routes 61A and 63. Otherwise it’s a 30 min walk or a taxi ride from the railway station (or a bike ride!)

 

[AlbertBeale]

I believe the last time it ran (the foot passenger shuttle between Dover Priory Station and the Eastern Docks) was August 2014. Since then, the fleet of buses (interestingly operated directly by P&O rather than contracted) has just operated on site shuttling the foot passengers from terminal to boat, well until Covid struck.

National Express coach route 007 from London did used to terminate at the Eastern Docks. This lasted until relatively recently, possibly only in the last couple of years? It’s certainly not on the current timetable anyway.

Stagecoach did run an hourly 15A between Deal and Canterbury which ran via the Eastern Docks. This ceased serving the docks in 2016.

The only public transport to the Eastern Docks today (one of the largest employers of Dover and surrounding areas, if not the biggest) are a handful of early morning journeys on Dover town bus routes 61A and 63. Otherwise it’s a 30 min walk or a taxi ride from the railway station (or a bike ride!)

In terms of the needs of port workers alone, it's crazy that there isn't a good bus service to the docks. Joined up public transport needs to be a much greater priority.

 

[route101]

What was the price of the combined rail and sail to Calais? I am thinking of going this way.

 

[AlbertBeale]

What was the price of the combined rail and sail to Calais? I am thinking of going this way.

I think - without trying to check - that the CDR London-Calais, with a railcard discount, was £20+ some years back. But I haven't done it for quite a while now, so I might be well out of date, even if my memory's right.

 

[johncrossley]

I think - without trying to check - that the CDR London-Calais, with a railcard discount, was £20+ some years back. But I haven't done it for quite a while now, so I might be well out of date, even if my memory's right.

According to

RailUK Fares & Ticketing Guide - Section 7 - Integrated fares

Section 7 - Integrated fares Contents 7.1 PlusBus 7.2 Bus & Tram Links 7.3 London Underground & DLR 7.4 Eurostar through ticketing 7.5 Rail & Sail to Ireland & other British Isles destinations 7.6 Rail & Sail to Continental Europe 7.7 CIV protections 7.8 Preserved Railways 7.9 Other tourist...

www.railforums.co.uk

it was £36 without railcard in 2012.

 

[AlbertBeale]

According to

RailUK Fares & Ticketing Guide - Section 7 - Integrated fares

Section 7 - Integrated fares Contents 7.1 PlusBus 7.2 Bus & Tram Links 7.3 London Underground & DLR 7.4 Eurostar through ticketing 7.5 Rail & Sail to Ireland & other British Isles destinations 7.6 Rail & Sail to Continental Europe 7.7 CIV protections 7.8 Preserved Railways 7.9 Other tourist...

www.railforums.co.uk

it was £36 without railcard in 2012.

Thanks - so with the discount, the £20-£30 range is the right ballpark for when I was last in the habit of doing that trip, which would have been 10 years back now. And it was even cheaper a few years earlier. I always thought it quite good value, especially given the lack of peak-time restrictions on that ticket. Almost paid for itself with a pannier full of interesting cheeses at a better price than the equivalent could be found over here.

 

[dismayedduck]

I did this in 2019 and it was about 40 pounds (only valid on non-HS1 routes). Although, unfortunately, the gentleman staffing the ticket booth at Charing Cross was quite rude and refused to accept my railcard even though BRfares showed it as being valid, so I imagine it could've been cheaper...

 

[AlbertBeale]

I did this in 2019 and it was about 40 pounds (only valid on non-HS1 routes). Although, unfortunately, the gentleman staffing the ticket booth at Charing Cross was quite rude and refused to accept my railcard even though BRfares showed it as being valid, so I imagine it could've been cheaper...

Yes - railcard discounts were always allowed on those tickets; I never had anyone querying that on the many times I did the trip over the years. Sounds like you need a refund! (Though perhaps a bit late now...)

 

[Haywain]

I did this in 2019 and it was about 40 pounds (only valid on non-HS1 routes). Although, unfortunately, the gentleman staffing the ticket booth at Charing Cross was quite rude and refused to accept my railcard even though BRfares showed it as being valid, so I imagine it could've been cheaper...

Which railcard was it?

 

[johnw]

A friend and I used the service from London to Calais via P&0 about five years ago. We attempted to buy a ticket from the East Midlands Trains’ ticket office in St Pancras but were refused and told they could only be purchased from Victoria and Charing Cross. However with a bit of help from myself, we managed to buy one from the Thameslink office with an HS1 add one. When I lived in London pre-HS1 domestic service, I used to travel over once a month and found booking office staff quite reluctant to issue them as it does seem quite complicated to issue.

I don’t understand why SouthEastern and P&O don’t promote them more as it’s a brilliant day out.

 

[paul1609]

Before the pandemic it was possible to get a.day return with Southeastern that included boat travel to Calais. It was suspended while P&O stopped taking foot passengers.

Is it likely to come back.?

Currently P&O are only running a very limited foot passenger service and are not promoting their own special offers for foot passengers only the standard fares. Its currently often as cheap on a day trip to take a car as not, cheaper if there's 2 or more passengers.

 

[willD]

Currently P&O are only running a very limited foot passenger service and are not promoting their own special offers for foot passengers only the standard fares. Its currently often as cheap on a day trip to take a car as not, cheaper if there's 2 or more passengers.

I've seen some cheap £9.50 each way deals, but that's with a bike. I was going to go today but their booking system flaked. I'm nervous on the phone so I didn't bother trying to call up and book.

I'd have gone in the week but the peak fares are a bit much. Maybe next Saturday.