CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Jamesrob637]

Clearly there aren't yet enough of these to be "healthy" as apparently Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn isn't resuming hourly Mon-Sat next Monday, two weeks after it was due to do so.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Clearly there aren't yet enough of these to be "healthy" as apparently Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn isn't resuming hourly Mon-Sat next Monday, two weeks after it was due to do so.

If it prevents cancellations on the three principal services (HHD CDF, MAN CMN, LLD MIA) then that decision has my support personally.

 

[victormildrew]

May have been answered before, why are 197s 2+3 not allowed between Manchester & Shrewsbury but mk4 stock is. 5 car 197s are allowed on the Shrewsbury/ Chester line?.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

May have been answered before, why are 197s 2+3 not allowed between Manchester & Shrewsbury but mk4 stock is. 5 car 197s are allowed on the Shrewsbury/ Chester line?.

It's not yet been signed off for 6 car running. They are working on it.

 

[CaergwrleKen]

Clearly there aren't yet enough of these to be "healthy" as apparently Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn isn't resuming hourly Mon-Sat next Monday, two weeks after it was due to do so.

If it prevents cancellations on the three principal services (HHD CDF, MAN CMN, LLD MIA) then that decision has my support personally.

Meanwhile 2 197s are running up and down to Bidston with nobody on, total waste of units. It’s very poor that the Liverpool service still isn’t back to normal, TFW found units for the Newport Ebbw Vale though what a surprise

 

[eisenach]

Last Friday and today I've been on a 197 for the first time.
Not very nice, are they ? Jiggly with uncomfortable seats. The 175s were much nicer.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Meanwhile 2 197s are running up and down to Bidston with nobody on, total waste of units. It’s very poor that the Liverpool service still isn’t back to normal, TFW found units for the Newport Ebbw Vale though what a surprise

I hope “what a surprise” isn’t a suggestion that they put South Wales before North, because the situation here is so utterly dire it’s become unbearable. Not one Valleys service towards Pontypridd or Barry is booked for four cars all day, and every day people are being told they can’t get on and need to wait for the next, which is now often considerably later than it would have been as services are much reduced. North Wales is getting consistent 3/4 car 197s now. That said, I’m not trying to suggest they get a particularly good deal either. All of Wales’ railway is riddled with problems.

 

[Class15]

If it prevents cancellations on the three principal services (HHD CDF, MAN CMN, LLD MIA) then that decision has my support personally.

Could you elaborate on the CRS codes; I don’t personally know what all those stand for?

 

[sd0733]

Thanks for posting this, really useful. A lot of units are marked as ‘stored’ in Telford. What is involved with the commissioning process and how long does it usually take? We should see a good number of units coming into service pretty soon?

Most of the ones stored at Telford are the ERTMS fitted ones for the Cambrian.

Commissioning seems to be taking several weeks per unit at the moment. There's another due out on Monday, the Built in Wales liveried 197120

 

[Jez]

Meanwhile 2 197s are running up and down to Bidston with nobody on, total waste of units. It’s very poor that the Liverpool service still isn’t back to normal, TFW found units for the Newport Ebbw Vale though what a surprise

It seems crazy that Bidston has been increased to 1 train every 45 mins whilst Liverpool is still 1 train per 2 hours! i agree Liverpool still having such an infrequent service is very poor. Put the 197 on an extra Liverpool train and put it back to hourly.

Ebbw Vale i suppose can use 150s which are better on there than running up and down to Manchester which seems to be becoming very rare now. They are almost all 197s now (not including Sundays of course)

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Most of the ones stored at Telford are the ERTMS fitted ones for the Cambrian.

Commissioning seems to be taking several weeks per unit at the moment. There's another due out on Monday, the Built in Wales liveried 197120

That is exciting, will be good to see 197120 out! Something a bit different!

 

[Jez]

That is exciting, will be good to see 197120 out! Something a bit different!

Im looking forward to getting that one too!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2024 ==

Most of the ones stored at Telford are the ERTMS fitted ones for the Cambrian.

Commissioning seems to be taking several weeks per unit at the moment. There's another due out on Monday, the Built in Wales liveried 197120

Will the ERTMS ones also work other routes or will they be exclusively for the Cambrian and associated services to Birmingham etc ? The 158s regularly work other routes on the network despite being ERTMS fitted.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There's another due out on Monday, the Built in Wales liveried 197120

In service? It'll be nice to have another 197 to get for haulage after quite a long while. It seems they always end up on Manchester Llandudno for the first few weeks though

 

[Jez]

In service? That'll be fun to get. It seems they always end up on Manchester Llandudno for the first few weeks though

It makes sense as they are close to Chester depot incase of any issues during their first few days in service.

 

[childwallblues]

If it prevents cancellations on the three principal services (HHD CDF, MAN CMN, LLD MIA) then that decision has my support personally.

Well the hourly Chester to Liverpool service is in RTT from Nonday 13th. I hoping it does run on the following day as I am hoping to catch the 0958 from Liverpool South Parkway to Chester.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Well the hourly Chester to Liverpool service is in RTT from Nonday 13th. I hoping it does run on the following day as I am hoping to catch the 0958 from Liverpool South Parkway to Chester.

Frankly, it's annoying how often that service gets a 3 carriage set while single 2 carriage ones plod up and down the Marches.

 

[sd0733]

Im looking forward to getting that one too!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2024 ==


Will the ERTMS ones also work other routes or will they be exclusively for the Cambrian and associated services to Birmingham etc ? The 158s regularly work other routes on the network despite being ERTMS fitted.

Believe the plan Is/was eventually to change the timetables to make them more captive than the 158s. From time to time though they'll likely have to go to Chester for heavier work than can be covered at Machynlleth so I'd be suprised if they're disgramed to be totally on the Cambrian.

In service? It'll be nice to have another 197 to get for haulage after quite a long while. It seems they always end up on Manchester Llandudno for the first few weeks though

Yes it should be. Its Premium section declassified too!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2024 ==

Frankly, it's annoying how often that service gets a 3 carriage set while single 2 carriage ones plod up and down the Marches.

Often used to keep an eye on rogue units or those fresh off repairs etc with it being back to Chester regularly where they can be checked/swapped out if required.

 

[Anonymous10]

Most of the ones stored at Telford are the ERTMS fitted ones for the Cambrian.

Commissioning seems to be taking several weeks per unit at the moment. There's another due out on Monday, the Built in Wales liveried 197120

So that would be the second standard premium 197 in service?

 

[Lurcheroo]

I hope “what a surprise” isn’t a suggestion that they put South Wales before North, because the situation here is so utterly dire it’s become unbearable. Not one Valleys service towards Pontypridd or Barry is booked for four cars all day, and every day people are being told they can’t get on and need to wait for the next, which is now often considerably later than it would have been as services are much reduced. North Wales is getting consistent 3/4 car 197s now. That said, I’m not trying to suggest they get a particularly good deal either. All of Wales’ railway is riddled with problems.

My gosh, dare I say I totally agree. the chester - liverpool services are not exactly rammed with passengers when I have been on them. plus there is merseyrail.
Quite the contrary on the Ebbwvale ones at times. and no other operator or alternative route.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2024 ==

Will the ERTMS ones also work other routes or will they be exclusively for the Cambrian and associated services to Birmingham etc ? The 158s regularly work other routes on the network despite being ERTMS fitted.

They will have to be more contained if the original plan is kept to as currently there are 24 158's and there will be 21 ERTMS 197's. There is also supposed to be an increase to a full hourly service on the cambrian mainline from Shrewsbury - Aberystwyth. and some more 4 car services. Also 1x4 car service each way per day during summer on the Cambrian coastline between Machynlleth and Pwllheli. But exactly how contained is to be seen.
I look forward to the day a 4 car goes up the Cambrian only to find that the rear set is a non ERTMS one when it comes to divide at Machynlleth It'll give many a good chuckle no dount haha.

 

[GWVillager]

Commissioning seems to be taking several weeks per unit at the moment. There's another due out on Monday, the Built in Wales liveried 197120

Yes it should be. Its Premium section declassified too!

Is the problem purely surrounding branding? If so, dare I ask what's taking them so long to get it fitted? 197120 has had plenty of time at Newport!

 

[ATP]

Last Friday and today I've been on a 197 for the first time.
Not very nice, are they ? Jiggly with uncomfortable seats. The 175s were much nicer.

Weird units. Took one from Manchester-Cardiff and it seemed as if it was moving incredibly slowly, like 40/50. Got out my phone app and we were doing about 80. Never felt that on another unit before.

 

[sd0733]

Is the problem purely surrounding branding? If so, dare I ask what's taking them so long to get it fitted? 197120 has had plenty of time at Newport!

Yes. Not sure but I've seen a fair few of the Standard Plus units around and none of them seem to have any branding in there.

 

[Dai Corner]

Weird units. Took one from Manchester-Cardiff and it seemed as if it was moving incredibly slowly, like 40/50. Got out my phone app and we were doing about 80. Never felt that on another unit before.

I understand the ride is much better between th bogies than above them.

 

[victormildrew]

It's not yet been signed off for 6 car running. They are working on it.

It's not yet been signed off for 6 car running. They are working on it.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Anonymous10]

I understand the ride is much better between th bogies than above them.

And yet I find I prefer above them by the divide to the cab as less people sit there and good window alignment

 

[BenBracken]

I understand the ride is much better between th bogies than above them.

It’s most noticeable over points and joints on older track. A few bangs went straight through to my spine!

 

[ATP]

And yet I find I prefer above them by the divide to the cab as less people sit there and good window alignment

I’m the same feels a bit more private.

By the way, and apologies if mentioned before, what’s with the massive food area behind the doors? None of the previous generations needed it and I didn’t think the /0s were getting first? Seems like a big waste of potential seating space

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

150s [[...]] running up and down to Manchester which seems to be becoming very rare now. They are almost all 197s now (not including Sundays of course)

I'm sure they're pretty rare on Manchesters where you are, because it's 197s booked to the West, and they do solidly put 197s on 197 diagrams, but unfortunately the dire availability of 67s mean a fair few terminating at Central are often 150 still.

As for not including Sundays, I don’t know why services are still so Sprinter heavy. Considering they’ll soon be retiring Sprinters from the mainline you’d think they need to start tackling that.

I’m the same feels a bit more private.

By the way, and apologies if mentioned before, what’s with the massive food area behind the doors? None of the previous generations needed it and I didn’t think the /0s were getting first? Seems like a big waste of potential seating space

The food area will be rebranded as Cafe Blâs when the roll out is completed, and will be used a bit like a kitchen to prepare hot food that will be ordered and served at seat. Should function not unlike the MK4 kitchen almost, except it takes up way, way less space than that does - but no one ever seems to complain about that

Well, OK it’s more like a galley so the menu will probably be much reduced than a MK4 and it won’t exactly produce chef cooked meals, but that’s fair enough considering how much smaller it is, and the trolley gets well patronised. This just means limited hot options can be ordered too and trolleys don’t have to trundle up and down.

 

[BenBracken]

Match day in Cardiff today. Be interesting to see what formations are put on and if any extra seats are available, especially from west and north Wales.

 

[Jez]

I'm sure they're pretty rare on Manchesters where you are, because it's 197s booked to the West, and they do solidly put 197s on 197 diagrams, but unfortunately the dire availability of 67s mean a fair few terminating at Central are often 150 still.

As for not including Sundays, I don’t know why services are still so Sprinter heavy. Considering they’ll soon be retiring Sprinters from the mainline you’d think they need to start tackling that.

I think on Sundays the 1330 and 1430 ex Manchester are still booked Sprinters and I think one other diagram that is in the South for much of the time and does a later journey to Manchester. It cant go on too much longer if 150s are being phased out for train crew at the Crewe and Shrewsbury depots. They will have to be 197s.

They do seem to be very rare on the services that run to West Wales. Ones that start and end in Cardiff are the ones most likely to be subbed for a 150/153. For example the 1100ish from Milford to Manchester which unfortunately can throw up a 150 on the 1730 Manchester to Cardiff

But yes 90% of the time they are 197s as booked now. Mostly 2 car but 3 car is becoming more common on some services.

Im surprised to hear there are still 150s on the Cardiff terminating services, whenever ive checked RTT its been a 197 with only vary rare Sprinter coverage. i did see a pair of 153s one day this week on the 1630 ex Manchester but thats rare now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2024 ==

Yes. Not sure but I've seen a fair few of the Standard Plus units around and none of them seem to have any branding in there.

Any news on when the Standard Plus upgrade will be available?

Also any news on when Maesteg and Cheltenham will start using 197s? Im not suggesting they should use 197s when there are so many short formations on the Marches as they should take priority, im just wondering if there is any progress with Maesteg-Cheltenham being cleared for 197 passenger service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2024 ==

Match day in Cardiff today. Be interesting to see what formations are put on and if any extra seats are available, especially from west and north Wales.

Seems to be mostly 2 car 197s on the service going from West to Cardiff in the hours before kick off. I suppose there isnt much they can do Rugby or not.

Interestingly the 1510 Swansea to Abergavenny is also a 2 car 197 today according to RTT. Its rare for this one to be a 197. (the full diagram starting with 0914 CDF-SWA is infact)