CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[sd0733]

Will some of those 2 cars be doubled up or is it 14 individual 2 car diagrams?

8 Of the 2 car diagrams are paired up at the start of the diagram, so 4 4 cars, the other diagrams are single all.day.

 

[Express380]

17 booked passenger diagrams for 197s tomotrrow, 14 2 car and 3 3 car diagrams. Obviously that's what's booked, not necessarily what turns up.

Whilst I know this is probably a big ask but what are those diagrams outside of Llandudno-Manchester please?

 

[Jez]

8 Of the 2 car diagrams are paired up at the start of the diagram, so 4 4 cars, the other diagrams are single all.day.

Thanks for confirming this.

 

[sd0733]

These are the diagrams for tomorrow, some may be covered by other units but that's what's booked 197.

Diagram 101:
03:26 ecs Holyhead to Llandudno Jcn
05:40 Llandudno Jcn to Llandudno
05:53 Llandudno to Chester
07:50 Chester to Manchester Airport
09:25 Manchester Airport to Chester
15:52 Chester to Manchester Airport
17:25 Manchester Airport to Llandudno
Shuttles until 21:19
01:32 Llandudno Jcn to Holyhead

Diagram 102
04:21 Holyhead to Llandudno Jcn
Bleanau shuttles all day
21:45 Llandudno to Crewe

Diagrams 103+115 paired all day
Liverpools

Diagram 104
04:21 Holyhead to Cardiff
18:25 Cardiff to Chester
21:52 Chester to Manchester Airport
23:20 Manchester Airport to Holyhead

Diagram 105
Chester to Crewe shuttles
Then 21:36 Crewe to Holyhead

Diagram 106
05:52 Chester to Manchester Airport
07:25/10:25 Manchester Airport to Llandudno
10:43/16:43 Llandudno to.Manchester Airport
19:25 Manchester Airport to Chester

Diagram 107
Ecs.Crewe to.Chester
05:02 Chester to.Manchester Airport
06:25/12:25 Manchester Airport to.Llandudno
09:43/15:43 Llandudno To Manchester Airport
18:25 Manchester Airport.to.Chester
22:32 Chester to.Shrewsbury
23:40.Shrewsbury to.Chester

Diagram 108
Llandudno Shuttles
07:43 Llandudno to.Manchester Airport
10:25/15:25 Manchester Airport to.Llandudno/jcn
12:53 Llandudno jcn to Manchester Airport
Llandudno Shuttles
18:43 Llandudno to Manchester Airport
21:25 Manchester Airport to.Chester

Diagrams 109+112 together all day
08:05 Holyhead to Cardiff
15:23 Cardiff to Holyhead
20:31 Holyhead to Crewe
23:30 Crewe to Chester

Diagram 110
05:57 Shrewsbury to Chester
08:53 Chester to Crewe
10:05.Crewe to Llandudno
11:43/17:43 Llandudno to.Manchester Airport
14:25 Manchester Airport.to.Llandudno
20:25 Manchester Airport to Chester

Diagram 111
05:57 Shrewsbury to Chester
08:20 Chester to Cardiff
16:22 Cardiff to Chester
22:32 Chester to Shrewsbury

Disgrams 112+109 together all day
08:05 Holyhead to Cardiff
15:23 Cardiff to Holyhead
20:31 Holyhead to Crewe
23:30 Crewe to Chester

Diagrams 113 and 114- No booked work. Stabled at Holyhead

Diagrams 115+103
Paired on Liverpools all day

151-153 3 cars

Diagram 151
06:52 Chester to Llandudno
Shuttles for an hour
08:43 Llandudno to Manchester Airport
11:25 Manchester Airport to Llandudno
Shuttles for an hour
14:41 Llandudno.to.Manchester Airport
17:25 Manchester Airport to Holyhead.

Diagram 152
06:24 Holyhead to.Cardiff
11:22 Cardiff to Holyhead
18:26 Holyhead to Crewe
22:24 Crewe to Chester.

Diagram 153
Ecs Chester to Llandudno Junction
06:13 Junction to.Llandudno
06:43 Llandudno to Manchester Airport
09:25 Manchester Airport to Holyhead
13:07 Holyhead to Manchester Airport
16:25 Manchester Airport to Llandudno
19:00 Llandudno to Crewe
21:36 Crewe to Holyhead

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

001, (003) 005, 014, 016, 020 (022, 023, 024, 025, 026, 027, 028, 029, 030, 031, 032, 033, 034, 035, 036, 037, 038, 039, 040, 041) 042, 044, 045, 046, 047, 048, 049, 050, 051

Does anyone know please if any of these have entered service yet? - Those in brackets are ETRMS.

 

[Krokodil]

Anyone know what happened with 197110

Seems to have been on time from Crewe and then left Chester 30 late but then kept to the planned journey time all the way to Holyhead. Did RTT not update the allocation and the 30 minutes late departure was actually a different unit?

Driver delayed on inbound 1H80 which had difficulties releasing brakes at Holyhead.

 

[Topological]

Driver delayed on inbound 1H80 which had difficulties releasing brakes at Holyhead.

Thank you. So not actually any issue with 197110

Thanks too to @sd0733 for the diagrams. It is interesting that two of the diagrams are actually just "stabled at Holyhead". As an outsider it is interesting to know the difference between that and the number of diagrams counted when saying there are X units to cover Y diagrams. Do those two "stabled at Holyhead" actually need to be covered?

 

[sd0733]

Thanks too to @sd0733 for the diagrams. It is interesting that two of the diagrams are actually just "stabled at Holyhead". As an outsider it is interesting to know the difference between that and the number of diagrams counted when saying there are X units to cover Y diagrams. Do those two "stabled at Holyhead" actually need to be covered?

They're unlikely to be covered in all honestly, theres also a load of diagrams for training which include static sets, only included them so the numbers ran through and didn't look like I'd missed them out!

 

[SuperLuke2334]

001, (003) 005, 014, 016, 020 (022, 023, 024, 025, 026, 027, 028, 029, 030, 031, 032, 033, 034, 035, 036, 037, 038, 039, 040, 041) 042, 044, 045, 046, 047, 048, 049, 050, 051

Does anyone know please if any of these have entered service yet? - Those in brackets are ETRMS.

None of those yet. Quite a lot will be soon though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2023 ==

104 has entered service on North Wales to Manchester runs today.

 

[childwallblues]

175110 is on the 0620 Wrexham General to Liverpool Lime Street which according to RTT it took over at Chester from 158828. Returning at 0744 LIV-CTR.

 

[Bob Price]

I think it's 112 on the Chester Crewe shuttle. Just pulled into Crewe, definitely a three car unit.

 

[SeaKing]

I think it's 112 on the Chester Crewe shuttle. Just pulled into Crewe, definitely a three car unit.

It is according to RTT.

 

[Jez]

1300 Milford Haven to Manchester Piccadilly is listed as having a 150 as far as Cardiff then a 197 from Cardiff to Manchester (it actually says a 4 car formation on RTT of a 150 and 197 which is obviously incorrect as they couldn't run together) but I wondered if they can now run to Manchester via Wilmslow in passenger service, I know they can to Crewe.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2023 ==

These are the diagrams for tomorrow, some may be covered by other units but that's what's booked 197.

Diagram 101:
03:26 ecs Holyhead to Llandudno Jcn
05:40 Llandudno Jcn to Llandudno
05:53 Llandudno to Chester
07:50 Chester to Manchester Airport
09:25 Manchester Airport to Chester
15:52 Chester to Manchester Airport
17:25 Manchester Airport to Llandudno
Shuttles until 21:19
01:32 Llandudno Jcn to Holyhead

Diagram 102
04:21 Holyhead to Llandudno Jcn
Bleanau shuttles all day
21:45 Llandudno to Crewe

Diagrams 103+115 paired all day
Liverpools

Diagram 104
04:21 Holyhead to Cardiff
18:25 Cardiff to Chester
21:52 Chester to Manchester Airport
23:20 Manchester Airport to Holyhead

Diagram 105
Chester to Crewe shuttles
Then 21:36 Crewe to Holyhead

Diagram 106
05:52 Chester to Manchester Airport
07:25/10:25 Manchester Airport to Llandudno
10:43/16:43 Llandudno to.Manchester Airport
19:25 Manchester Airport to Chester

Diagram 107
Ecs.Crewe to.Chester
05:02 Chester to.Manchester Airport
06:25/12:25 Manchester Airport to.Llandudno
09:43/15:43 Llandudno To Manchester Airport
18:25 Manchester Airport.to.Chester
22:32 Chester to.Shrewsbury
23:40.Shrewsbury to.Chester

Diagram 108
Llandudno Shuttles
07:43 Llandudno to.Manchester Airport
10:25/15:25 Manchester Airport to.Llandudno/jcn
12:53 Llandudno jcn to Manchester Airport
Llandudno Shuttles
18:43 Llandudno to Manchester Airport
21:25 Manchester Airport to.Chester

Diagrams 109+112 together all day
08:05 Holyhead to Cardiff
15:23 Cardiff to Holyhead
20:31 Holyhead to Crewe
23:30 Crewe to Chester

Diagram 110
05:57 Shrewsbury to Chester
08:53 Chester to Crewe
10:05.Crewe to Llandudno
11:43/17:43 Llandudno to.Manchester Airport
14:25 Manchester Airport.to.Llandudno
20:25 Manchester Airport to Chester

Diagram 111
05:57 Shrewsbury to Chester
08:20 Chester to Cardiff
16:22 Cardiff to Chester
22:32 Chester to Shrewsbury

Disgrams 112+109 together all day
08:05 Holyhead to Cardiff
15:23 Cardiff to Holyhead
20:31 Holyhead to Crewe
23:30 Crewe to Chester

Diagrams 113 and 114- No booked work. Stabled at Holyhead

Diagrams 115+103
Paired on Liverpools all day

151-153 3 cars

Diagram 151
06:52 Chester to Llandudno
Shuttles for an hour
08:43 Llandudno to Manchester Airport
11:25 Manchester Airport to Llandudno
Shuttles for an hour
14:41 Llandudno.to.Manchester Airport
17:25 Manchester Airport to Holyhead.

Diagram 152
06:24 Holyhead to.Cardiff
11:22 Cardiff to Holyhead
18:26 Holyhead to Crewe
22:24 Crewe to Chester.

Diagram 153
Ecs Chester to Llandudno Junction
06:13 Junction to.Llandudno
06:43 Llandudno to Manchester Airport
09:25 Manchester Airport to Holyhead
13:07 Holyhead to Manchester Airport
16:25 Manchester Airport to Llandudno
19:00 Llandudno to Crewe
21:36 Crewe to Holyhead

Thanks for the diagrams and good to see so many booked

 

[sd0733]

1300 Milford Haven to Manchester Piccadilly is listed as having a 150 as far as Cardiff then a 197 from Cardiff to Manchester (it actually says a 4 car formation on RTT of a 150 and 197 which is obviously incorrect as they couldn't run together) but I wondered if they can now run to Manchester via Wilmslow in passenger service, I know they can to Crewe.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2023 ==


Thanks for the diagrams and good to see so many booked

Yes they're cleared the whole way Cardiff to Manchester so in theory crew permitting there wouldn't be anything stopping one going.

 

[Jez]

Yes they're cleared the whole way Cardiff to Manchester so in theory crew permitting there wouldn't be anything stopping one going.

I wonder if it will be worked by a 197 then as it still lists the same 150 that's running it from Milford as well as a 197.

Edit - it appears the 197 has been removed now. That would have been a good one to be worked 197 as it returns as far as Cardiff on the 1930 from Manchester. We may see more swaps at Cardiff from the West Wales services once more 197s are in service like they did with the Holyheads before they worked to Cardiff.

 

[Techniquest]

Yes they're cleared the whole way Cardiff to Manchester so in theory crew permitting there wouldn't be anything stopping one going.

Nice!

Thank you for the diagrams too, it's definitely nice to see how much is available now. I smell a trip to North Wales in August on a 197 to do either a walking expedition up Holyhead Mountain or along the coastal path around the Rhyl/Colwyn Bay area. Indeed, I might even branch off and do a full on explore of Llandudno/Great Orme!

197s to Manchester also interests me as there's just so much exploring to do up there. Just a shame the cycle space on 197s is not very good!

My understanding in terms of passenger service clearance on 197s is that it's down to Cardiff-West Wales and the Cambrian lines to Birmingham left to go. Manchester being cleared but no booked turns as such yet from the Crewe direction if I've read that right?

 

[Jez]

Nice!

Thank you for the diagrams too, it's definitely nice to see how much is available now. I smell a trip to North Wales in August on a 197 to do either a walking expedition up Holyhead Mountain or along the coastal path around the Rhyl/Colwyn Bay area. Indeed, I might even branch off and do a full on explore of Llandudno/Great Orme!

197s to Manchester also interests me as there's just so much exploring to do up there. Just a shame the cycle space on 197s is not very good!

My understanding in terms of passenger service clearance on 197s is that it's down to Cardiff-West Wales and the Cambrian lines to Birmingham left to go. Manchester being cleared but no booked turns as such yet from the Crewe direction if I've read that right?

Im guessing the reason they are not booked is they run through to West Wales. The ones that terminate at Cardiff are MK4 (or at least they should be) but they may do some ad hoc Cardiff-Manchester runs and have a set swap at Cardiff as they did this with North Wales-Cardiff at Chester before they were cleared. It would certainly reduce the amount of 175/Sprinters needed on the route.

 

[Techniquest]

Im guessing the reason they are not booked is they run through to West Wales. The ones that terminate at Cardiff are MK4 (or at least they should be) but they may do some ad hoc Cardiff-Manchester runs and have a set swap at Cardiff as they did this with North Wales-Cardiff at Chester before they were cleared. It would certainly reduce the amount of 175/Sprinters needed on the route.

Oh yes I forgot there's through trains to West Wales from Manchester. I blame that on not enough coffee flowing through the veins yet

 

[Jez]

Oh yes I forgot there's through trains to West Wales from Manchester. I blame that on not enough coffee flowing through the veins yet

Its a shame really that they cant run them as I noticed a Northern 150 was on the 07xx from Milford to Manchester today. Wouldn't fancy that all the way. I have a trip planned to Manchester on Thursday and whilst id love to think it could be swapped at Cardiff for a 197 I doubt I will be that lucky! Hopefully it will be a 175 if not rather than have a TFW 150. Id especially not like to have the Northern 150's or a pair of 153s!

 

[Caaardiff]

Yes they're cleared the whole way Cardiff to Manchester so in theory crew permitting there wouldn't be anything stopping one going.

197s are route cleared to Manchester but not cleared in passenger service with TFW yet between Shrewsbury and Manchester. Systems/PIS reasons apparently.

 

[Topological]

I still cannot believe that when the random unit generator says the Northern 150 someone does not swap it for a TfW one.

I also saw the allocation of the 197 and it is a shame that will not now be used. However, it is all progress and it is encouraging to think that a 197 may be on a Manchester soon.

 

[sd0733]

197s are route cleared to Manchester but not cleared in passenger service with TFW yet between Shrewsbury and Manchester. Systems/PIS reasons apparently.

Crewe-Shrewsbury was missing as there was an ASDO problem at a couple of stops but there were proving runs and signed off a couple of weeks ago, the issues were all ironed out in a software update so upto 4 cars is good to go.
6 Car proving and sign off is now being carried out on the route but that hasn't happened yet between Shrewsbury and Manchester.

 

[Topological]

197s are route cleared to Manchester but not cleared in passenger service with TFW yet between Shrewsbury and Manchester. Systems/PIS reasons apparently.

I was taking the information from @sd0733 to be correct. One step at a time I guess.

EDIT I see there was a reply to confirm sign off was a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Caaardiff]

Crewe-Shrewsbury was missing as there was an ASDO problem at a couple of stops but there were proving runs and signed off a couple of weeks ago, the issues were all ironed out in a software update so upto 4 cars is good to go.
6 Car proving and sign off is now being carried out on the route but that hasn't happened yet between Shrewsbury and Manchester.

Interesting. That's not whats being said internally. Thanks for the info.

Its a shame really that they cant run them as I noticed a Northern 150 was on the 07xx from Milford to Manchester today. Wouldn't fancy that all the way. I have a trip planned to Manchester on Thursday and whilst id love to think it could be swapped at Cardiff for a 197 I doubt I will be that lucky! Hopefully it will be a 175 if not rather than have a TFW 150. Id especially not like to have the Northern 150's or a pair of 153s!

TFW operates a very varied network, with a varied number of fleet types, several depots and stabling locations, as well as the well discussed unit shortages.
It all depends what unit is where at what time, and sometimes if a swap is needed it may be the only option.

 

[sd0733]

Interesting. That's not whats being said internally. Thanks for the info.

The route is certainly done, I was on some of the proving and the People who did the final bits said the rest was a success too with the 4 car so it's certainly good to go.
But....it looks like 1D97 is STP'd via Wrexham rather than Nantwich which rather implies something is amiss that way. Can only be paperwork related as there's no more runs happening and the traincrew diagrams previously showed Nantwich as a call for today so something has clearly flagged up last minute.

 

[Envoy]

I know that 197’s are not going to work the Heart of Wales but would it not be prudent to at least get them cleared to use that route in the event that The Marches get blocked?

 

[JakeMurphy]

Another day another 197 debut - 042 has entered service on 1H82 from Chester.

 

[sd0733]

I know that 197’s are not going to work the Heart of Wales but would it not be prudent to at least get them cleared to use that route in the event that The Marches get blocked?

They are being, for that very reason. Can't remember when but it's definitely planned to be done.

 

[Envoy]

They are being, for that very reason. Can't remember when but it's definitely planned to be done.

Many thanks.

 

[Anonymous10]

They are being, for that very reason. Can't remember when but it's definitely planned to be done.

So in theory in disruption they could work the howl service but unlikely?