CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Plasmanoodle]

The 1330 is being replaced with a 150 at Cardiff. No surprises there.

But it's good that a few of the Cardiff to Manchesters are 197s now even if not all booked. Progress is very slowly being made.

I wonder if the 1630 will be replaced at Cardiff, also, or if it’ll run through to Swansea as that’s where it’s terminating.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I wonder if the 1630 will be replaced at Cardiff, also, or if it’ll run through to Swansea as that’s where it’s terminating.

Not cleared west of Cardiff yet for passenger service, so definitely will be a swap.

 

[Jez]

I wonder if the 1630 will be replaced at Cardiff, also, or if it’ll run through to Swansea as that’s where it’s terminating.

As far as I know they still arent running to Swansea in passenger service so I very much doubt it!

 

[Plasmanoodle]

Not cleared west of Cardiff yet for passenger service, so definitely will be a swap.

As far as I know they still arent running to Swansea in passenger service so I very much doubt it!

Thanks, both. I was pondering whether to go out and see it, or not. Turns out it’s a ‘not’, this time!

 

[Jez]

Thanks, both. I was pondering whether to go out and see it, or not. Turns out it’s a ‘not’, this time!

If it was id be catching it myself!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2023 ==

Will the 197's have to go to Tenby eventually?

Eventually yes. Not due to be on the Pembroke Dock branch line until May 2024 at the earliest. Probably even later than that now given everything seems to be months behind. Unsure whether the daily Manchester-Tenby could switch to a 197 sooner, not sure if the plan is for it still to run through to Tenby when the timetable change happens.

 

[Anonymous10]

Or knowing TfW it will be a single 153 from Cardiff

Good the Kit Kat carriers (the 197s) are spreading their wings with runs to Manchester from Cardiff.

Well it Met us half way with 150280 taking up the ropes from 197019.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2023 ==

If it was id be catching it myself!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2023 ==


Eventually yes. Not due to be on the Pembroke Dock branch line until May 2024 at the earliest. Probably even later than that now given everything seems to be months behind. Unsure whether the daily Manchester-Tenby could switch to a 197 sooner, not sure if the plan is for it still to run through to Tenby when the timetable change happens.

I would presume it would depend on staff and clearance they may start the Manchester tenby and weekends to Pembroke dock as 197s sooner with the rest changing over later.

 

[Jez]

Well it Met us half way with 150280 taking up the ropes from 197019.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2023 ==


I would presume it would depend on staff and clearance they may start the Manchester tenby and weekends to Pembroke dock as 197s sooner with the rest changing over later.

They may do. The plans for the December 2023 timetable (which have since been removed) suggested a two hourly Manchester-Fishguard (197) with the other hour from Manchester MK4 and terminating in Cardiff and being replaced with a 197 doing Cardiff-Milford (so much like now but with 197s not 175s/Sprinters to Milford) But with much of that timetable being postponed they may well stick with the current service patterns from December and still run a service Manchester-Tenby. I suppose we wont know for sure until the December timetable is confirmed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2023 ==

Looks like 150227 is taking over at Cardiff from.the 197 doing the 1630 Manchester to Swansea

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197047 was on the Conwy Valley line today and 013 was on Llandudno/Llandudno Junction to Manchester Airport duties today. Saw them both in North Wales today whilst in the car going home.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

197047 was on the Conwy Valley line today and 013 was on Llandudno/Llandudno Junction to Manchester Airport duties today. Saw them both in North Wales today whilst in the car going home.

What’s the significance of that sorry? Both have been operational for a while.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2023 ==

How far are we off of more 197/1s being accepted in addition to the current four, does anyone know? Would be nice to see 005 and 045/046 / 050/051 get accepted too.

I figure First Class and ERTMS units are yonks away.

 

[sd0733]

How far are we off of more 197/1s being accepted in addition to the current four, does anyone know? Would be nice to see 005 and 045/046 / 050/051 get accepted too.

I figure First Class and ERTMS units are yonks away.

There's 3 in the acceptance process (101, 105, 106) but seem to be taking an eternity at the moment, not really sure what the issues are to be honest.

As far as I know any First class units will be accepted when their time comes and they'll just run as a common pool of 3 cars at the start. ERTMS sets, I've no idea what the plan for those before the Cambrian goes over.

 

[Bob Price]

3Z98 just passed Crewe on its way to Landore. Due Cardiff at 1544 and Landore at 1631 - it's running late but may make up time.

 

[Envoy]

Why aren’t the 197’s cleared for passenger use west of Cardiff?

 

[anthony263]

Why aren’t the 197’s cleared for passenger use west of Cardiff?

Nobody signed paperwork yet I believe just some minor things to sort

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Nobody signed paperwork yet I believe just some minor things to sort

Ferryside has got issues, as sd0733 mentioned earlier on. I think they're hoping during September.

 

[anthony263]

Ferryside has got issues, as sd0733 mentioned earlier on. I think they're hoping during September.

Hopefully Cardiff to Swansea can be done before then

 

[Jez]

Why aren’t the 197’s cleared for passenger use west of Cardiff?

Good question. Nobody seems to know rhe exact reason or can't post it publicly. It seems to be taking a lot longer than I thought. I expected a couple of 197s to Swansea at least from May/June time. At this rate it will be September. Very frustrating!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2023 ==

Hopefully Cardiff to Swansea can be done before then

I hope so. If Ferryside is the issue then there is nothing stopping the two booked swanline workings that run through to Chester at the very least. There must be more to it.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

What’s the significance of that sorry? Both have been operational for a while.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2023 ==

How far are we off of more 197/1s being accepted in addition to the current four, does anyone know? Would be nice to see 005 and 045/046 / 050/051 get accepted too.

I figure First Class and ERTMS units are yonks away.

197050 only left Donnington RFT the other week so that won't be in service yet.

 

[sd0733]

Good question. Nobody seems to know rhe exact reason or can't post it publicly. It seems to be taking a lot longer than I thought. I expected a couple of 197s to Swansea at least from May/June time. At this rate it will be September. Very frustrating!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2023 ==


I hope so. If Ferryside is the issue then there is nothing stopping the two booked swanline workings that run through to Chester at the very least. There must be more to it.

Ferryside is the issue between Carmarthen and Swansea. I don't know what the hold up is between Cardiff and Swansea. All the testing and proving was done a while ago and the training trains have run up and down there for months.
As an educated guess it's something ASDO/PIS related like Crewe-Shrewsbury was but I could be wrong on that.

 

[Topological]

Ferryside is the issue between Carmarthen and Swansea. I don't know what the hold up is between Cardiff and Swansea. All the testing and proving was done a while ago and the training trains have run up and down there for months.
As an educated guess it's something ASDO/PIS related like Crewe-Shrewsbury was but I could be wrong on that.

Would be interesting to know.

I am not aware of any platforms posing a problem to 3-car 175s when the Manchester train stops at the Swanlines. Clearly Swansea, Neath, Port Talbot Parkway and Bridgend are no problem. When the service switches to 3+2 I think there will be problems picking up Swanline stops.

 

[sd0733]

Would be interesting to know.

I am not aware of any platforms posing a problem to 3-car 175s when the Manchester train stops at the Swanlines. Clearly Swansea, Neath, Port Talbot Parkway and Bridgend are no problem. When the service switches to 3+2 I think there will be problems picking up Swanline stops.

Unlikely to ever find out in all honesty, even the people who been Involved on these things don't know for sure.

None of them will be a problem, it'll just use ASDO, both 4 and 6 cars proving trains have stopped everywhere on the mainline. 4 cars are the minimum being approved on all the mainline routes. Obviously that does enable 2 and 3 car running too but does mean that everything smaller has to wait until 4 cars are approved.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

197049 should work it’s first passenger service tomorrow from Holyhead to Llandudno Junction.

 

[sd0733]

197049 should work it’s first passenger service tomorrow from Holyhead to Llandudno Junction.

Think that may have been an allocation error as its still planned as the static/coupling training unit at Chester, its planned for that role next week too.

 

[craigybagel]

Think that may have been an allocation error as its still planned as the static/coupling training unit at Chester, its planned for that role next week too.

Although for what it's worth there hasn't actually been any coupling training in the North for the last 2 weeks owing to needing all the units in passenger service instead.

 

[sd0733]

Although for what it's worth there hasn't actually been any coupling training in the North for the last 2 weeks owing to needing all the units in passenger service instead.

That does make sense, as only the one unit seems to be on Static 'duties' this week which would make coupling training somewhat difficult! Seems to go back to 2 units again from Tuesday next week.

 

[craigybagel]

That does make sense, as only the one unit seems to be on Static 'duties' this week which would make coupling training somewhat difficult! Seems to go back to 2 units again from Tuesday next week.

Fingers crossed - it's causing some challenges with a booked split at Piccadilly every evening requiring a coupling competent driver.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Are TfW in postive trainset gain territory now 30+ 197s have been introduced? Seems like there are a lot of 153/150 workings still, considering quite a few diagrams are Mk 4s now as well. I appreciate that 175s have started going back to the Rosco but it still seems quite stretched.

 

[Dai Corner]

Are TfW in postive trainset gain territory now 30+ 197s have been introduced? Seems like there are a lot of 153/150 workings still, considering quite a few diagrams are Mk 4s now as well. I appreciate that 175s have started going back to the Rosco but it still seems quite stretched.

I think the problem now is that not enough southern traincrew sign them?

 

[Jez]

Are TfW in postive trainset gain territory now 30+ 197s have been introduced? Seems like there are a lot of 153/150 workings still, considering quite a few diagrams are Mk 4s now as well. I appreciate that 175s have started going back to the Rosco but it still seems quite stretched.

Definitely lots of 153 and 150 workings still. I was at Central for a while this evening and the 1855 to Manchester, 1655 from Carmathen both 150s. Then the 1530 from Manchester a pair of 153s which was swapped (unplanned I think due to the chaos on Platforms 3/4) for the same 150 that arrived on the 1655 ex Carmarthen! Things don't seem to be getting much better. No sign of any 175s!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Aug 2023 ==

How many 197s do we have available for passenger service now and generally.how many each day are booked for service?

 

[Delta558]

Ferryside has got issues, as sd0733 mentioned earlier on. I think they're hoping during September.

Down side, ASDO is going to have to be offset forwards to avoid blocking the crossing with anything more than 5 carriages. Presumably it will have to be rechecked once the marker boards are in place.

 

[Welshguy1048]

Afternoon

Unusual to see a 7 car(in total) 197 - on such a late service - or has anyone seen it before?

Realtime Trains | 1D41 2136 Crewe to Holyhead | 28/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 1D41 2136 departure from Crewe to Holyhead on 28/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Dave