Bus windows/ventilation autumn/winter

[kez19]

Whilst on the UK Gov site even though it speaks of indoor spaces, public transport is indoor space regardless of journey but

New film shows importance of ventilation to reduce spread of COVID-19

New short film released by the government shows how coronavirus lingers in enclosed spaces, and how to keep your home ventilated.

www.gov.uk

Research shows that being in a room with fresh air can reduce your risk of infection from particles by over 70%, as fresh air dilutes the particles.

As we spend more time indoors, experts are recommending that people either:

open windows for short, sharp bursts of 10 to 15 minutes regularly throughout the day
leave windows open a small amount continuously
This is to remove any infected particles lingering in the room.


If you were to apply that to transport seems pretty much standard on what you would do during the warmer months, so I don’t see why even into a 40+ min journey (on public transport) you can’t close windows just seems contradictory but just opinion here

 

[theblackwatch]

Need to get a few of these running, it'll sort out any problems with closed windows.

 

[kez19]

Need to get a few of these running, it'll sort out any problems with closed windows.

I have nothing against open toppers but maybe we may as well roll them out all year I guess....

 

[Bantamzen]

I have nothing against open toppers but maybe we may as well roll them out all year I guess....

And the picture also demonstrates the average number of passengers per journey that would use them....

 

[kez19]

And the picture also demonstrates the average number of passengers per journey that would use them....

Few and far between!

 

[dan5324]

On some vehicles having the windows open with the heating on is a big no no. It can mess with the thermostat sensors and put the heating into overdrive making it unbearably hot. National express levante 2’s were notorious for this. As were some service buses.

pretty much all heating on buses and coaches is convector heating with water heater from the ending then pumped around the vehicle. Heater flooring however is gradually creeping in which I’m lead to believe is much less likely to overheat should one open the windows.

 

[kez19]

Just for comparison to earlier in week on single deck 3 windows open, 4 closed fair enough I had only been to Sainsbury’s and bus was a circular route but seems to me people have common sense in closing windows if they are feeling cold.

I know any other winter windows have been closed or the odd one or two open (pending on bus single/double).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Nov 2020 ==

On some vehicles having the windows open with the heating on is a big no no. It can mess with the thermostat sensors and put the heating into overdrive making it unbearably hot. National express levante 2’s were notorious for this. As were some service buses.

pretty much all heating on buses and coaches is convector heating with water heater from the ending then pumped around the vehicle. Heater flooring however is gradually creeping in which I’m lead to believe is much less likely to overheat should one open the windows.

Surely then the bus operators should know their vehicles?

Heater flooring on buses? I remember on the older buses you seen the heaters on buses now you don’t?

 

[dan5324]

Just for comparison to earlier in week on single deck 3 windows open, 4 closed fair enough I had only been to Sainsbury’s and bus was a circular route but seems to me people have common sense in closing windows if they are feeling cold.

I know any other winter windows have been closed or the odd one or two open (pending on bus single/double).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Nov 2020 ==




Surely then the bus operators should know their vehicles?

Heater flooring on buses? I remember on the older buses you seen the heaters on buses now you don’t?

Of course the operators know. They just don’t really care. Vehicles are built to a price. Not to a spec that’s necessarily regarded as comfortable or practical. At nat ex we were told never to drive with the window down in service. Like heck would drivers listen to that.

And yeah that was an auto correct error. Heater flooring is what I mean. Electric heater elements under the floor panels. Actually uses more fuel due to it requiring a whole new belt but less prone to overheating and the one side bus cold one side hot issue.

 

[kez19]

Of course the operators know. They just don’t really care. Vehicles are built to a price. Not to a spec that’s necessarily regarded as comfortable or practical. At nat ex we were told never to drive with the window down in service. Like heck would drivers listen to that.

And yeah that was an auto correct error. Heater flooring is what I mean. Electric heater elements under the floor panels. Actually uses more fuel due to it requiring a whole new belt but less prone to overheating and the one side bus cold one side hot issue.

I wonder then in future buses will be more damaged by this but the blame will be on passengers?

I just find it stupid to an extent why nothing had been updated for the cold months but it just seems to be... let’s keep all windows open on a bus.

Hopefully common sense will prevail with people including drivers to allow passengers to open/close windows to suit their journey (I can see the windows open backfiring eventually)

 

[Darandio]

Experienced this first hand today and won't be trying again in a hurry. Arriva 'Sapphire' service 7 from Darlington to Ferryhill and back with all windows open on the lower deck. On boarding the lady in front actually asked about the windows and was told they had to stay open, even with a hat and fairly robust coat it was still bloody freezing and on the return journey we had the addition of sleet coming through the open windows.

Absolute madness.

 

[py_megapixel]

My suggestion would be that passengers should be able to choose whether they want the windows open or not. That way, those more concerned about the virus, or those who want some fresh air, can have the windows open, while those who are finding it uncomfortably cold can have them closed.

What a revolutionary idea that is... certainly not just how windows on public transport have always worked!

 

[greyman42]

My suggestion would be that passengers should be able to choose whether they want the windows open or not. That way, those more concerned about the virus, or those who want some fresh air, can have the windows open, while those who are finding it uncomfortably cold can have them closed.

The problem with this is that people sit down and open the window where they are sat and the person who is sat a couple of seats further back is the one who gets the cold air blasted in their face.

 

[Bantamzen]

My suggestion would be that passengers should be able to choose whether they want the windows open or not. That way, those more concerned about the virus, or those who want some fresh air, can have the windows open, while those who are finding it uncomfortably cold can have them closed.

What a revolutionary idea that is... certainly not just how windows on public transport have always worked!

Wait? What? Passengers having a choice of freezing to death or not? Sounds like heresy to me...

 

[richw]

We had a operations communication this week that our bus windows will in due course be locked open!

 

[kez19]

Experienced this first hand today and won't be trying again in a hurry. Arriva 'Sapphire' service 7 from Darlington to Ferryhill and back with all windows open on the lower deck. On boarding the lady in front actually asked about the windows and was told they had to stay open, even with a hat and fairly robust coat it was still bloody freezing and on the return journey we had the addition of sleet coming through the open windows.

Absolute madness.

Thank you and that was exact experience for me par I was the only one at the back of a single deck!

Seems common sense hasn't arrived yet!

 

[DB]

We had a operations communication this week that our bus windows will in due course be locked open!

Sounds like some bus companies actually want to alienate their customers. Wonder whether there is a correlation between this sort of stupidity and profitable / subsidised urban routes where the passengers won't have any alternative? On more marginal routes I can see it wiping out the business case.

 

[MrTurbostar170]

Every Stagecoach East Kent bus I travelled on today had all the windows closed.

 

[kez19]

My suggestion would be that passengers should be able to choose whether they want the windows open or not. That way, those more concerned about the virus, or those who want some fresh air, can have the windows open, while those who are finding it uncomfortably cold can have them closed.

What a revolutionary idea that is... certainly not just how windows on public transport have always worked!

Pre-covid you did have a choice, now it just seems you must not shut a window to be told to keep it open!

We had a operations communication this week that our bus windows will in due course be locked open!

Can drivers not speak out? Like say to the operators, as we understand doing this in spring/summer but come autumn and winter surely we could close some windows?

 

[richw]

Sounds like some bus companies actually want to alienate their customers. Wonder whether there is a correlation between this sort of stupidity and profitable / subsidised urban routes where the passengers won't have any alternative? On more marginal routes I can see it wiping out the business case.

No government guidelines require good ventilation to be maintained at all times for all inside spaces that are open to public. Under the same guidelines shops should be keeping all windows and doors open where possible

 

[Bantamzen]

No government guidelines require good ventilation to be maintained at all times for all inside spaces that are open to public. Under the same guidelines shops should be keeping all windows and doors open where possible

"Where possible". If leaving windows and doors open during a blizzard means that customers & staff freeze to death, then it is not good practice. The same goes for buses, you really can't expect people to freeze on them, because people will stop using them and the eventually many more services will be lost.

 

[py_megapixel]

No government guidelines require good ventilation to be maintained at all times for all inside spaces that are open to public. Under the same guidelines shops should be keeping all windows and doors open where possible

Minor point: guidelines don't require anything. They are just guidance, nothing more. If they wanted, bus companies could just ignore them; I think it's more a case of wanting to be seen to do the right thing.

 

[greyman42]

Minor point: guidelines don't require anything. They are just guidance, nothing more. If they wanted, bus companies could just ignore them; I think it's more a case of wanting to be seen to do the right thing.

Do they prioritise that before the comfort of the passenger because if so they are in danger of seeing the passenger walk away.

 

[richw]

Do they prioritise that before the comfort of the passenger because if so they are in danger of seeing the passenger walk away.

Is passenger safety or comfort more important?

 

[DB]

Is passenger safety or comfort more important?

But there's no actual evidence that buses are a major cause of transmission anyway. It's the usual paranoia.

And if they drive away the passengers, there may then be no buses at all - they are far more exposed to commercial realities than the railways are.

 

[greyman42]

Is passenger safety or comfort more important?

If all your passengers have walked away and are using other modes of transport, then unless you are getting bank rolled by the government, you are going to go bust and employees will loose their jobs. All for the sake of "being seen to be doing the right thing" when there is no evidence that you were.

 

[Bantamzen]

Is passenger safety or comfort more important?

How safe do you feel a bus is with sub-zero winds blowing through it is?

 

[3rd rail land]

If all your passengers have walked away and are using other modes of transport, then unless you are getting bank rolled by the government, you are going to go bust and employees will loose their jobs. All for the sake of "being seen to be doing the right thing" when there is no evidence that you were.

You might lose some passengers but a lot of people won't have an alternative means of getting from A to B. It might be a journey that is not covered by other forms of public transport and not everyone has a car.

 

[Darandio]

You might lose some passengers but a lot of people won't have an alternative means of getting from A to B. It might be a journey that is not covered by other forms of public transport and not everyone has a car.

And these people are very often elderly and need buses to get to places such as the Post Office or supermarket. Except they will be lost as well once they are killed off through Pneumonia.

 

[STINT47]

In Mottingham I have the option of using the tram or Nottingham City Transport buses.

The tram has air conditioning/heating and no windows. The buses last week were running with the windows open. Needless to say for my trip to the city centre and back I got the tram and sat in the warmth.

Perhaps the tram was a covid death trap but I've used it before along with trains with no windows and neither me, my family or friends have had the virus....

Meanwhile the buses have very few on board

 

[greyman42]

You might lose some passengers but a lot of people won't have an alternative means of getting from A to B. It might be a journey that is not covered by other forms of public transport and not everyone has a car.

It depends how many passengers you loose. You need to keep enough to make a profit, otherwise you go bust.