Bus windows/ventilation autumn/winter

[kez19]

This may be an odd question to ask,

I know during the summer (guessing numerous bus companies are or still are), that have signs saying "leave windows open" or that wording to a degree, I can understand it in spring/summer but we are now into Autumn and Winter.

I was told off today to keep a window open on a small single decker, however all windows were open so I was only closing one (if for arguments sake ventilation was still running through bus) however the irony is why then have the bus heating on?

What I am writing is not aimed at a) driver as I can quite understand he didn't want to get into trouble if bus company looked at CCTV b) bus company itself, but I would hazard a guess its governments guidelines (both UK/Scotland).

So why has guidance ever been updated here? It seems pretty much that keeping the windows open in these cold conditions is the aim to give passengers hypothermia? It seems borderline dangerous (as I say its not aimed at bus drivers and I doubt bus companies are to blame)

any ideas or anyone seen any guidance?

 

[radamfi]

The aim is to ensure that you travel by car, and don't return to the bus once the pandemic is over.

 

[kez19]

The aim is to ensure that you travel by car, and don't return to the bus once the pandemic is over.

If that was the aim I be better trying to get a train instead (I don't drive) but thats the closest to at least keeping warm on transport, its not the bus but train!

 

[221129]

cold conditions is the aim to give passengers hypothermia? It seems borderline dangerous

Thats a bit of a stretch! You would still need to be wrapped up for the prevailing conditions whilst you wait. Put a coat on. The improved ventilation is believed to help disperse virus droplets.

 

[Crossover]

One of the buses I was on yesterday had signs on advising of keeping the windows open for ventilation (I forget which), whilst another had all the windows shut (my OH opened the one next to us) and no signs

The first bus I was on, a couple of passengers had got chatting to one another, comparing notes. One said they were travelling a bit on the buses and that it was usually a place to keep warm, but that some of them were "perishingly cold"

I think as the weather gets colder, persuading passengers to leave the windows open is going to be a tough sell!

 

[kez19]

Thats a bit of a stretch! You would still need to be wrapped up for the prevailing conditions whilst you wait. Put a coat on. The improved ventilation is believed to help disperse virus droplets.

I get that, but I mostly in winter at best of times just have a coat on, thats it!.... I guess i'll have to upgrade to wooly hat/gloves from now, I thought the point was at least the heating was on the bus but it just seems it defeats the purpose if thats the case as I was told above.... I better get a car!

Just to add in what I meant my mum had got on 2 of their buses recently and felt really cold after coming home with windows open (of course she was not happy) but I admit maybe saying hypothermia is a bit of a stretch to say but its a bit of a reality here? As I say why has nothing (as far as I can tell) regarding windows on public transport especially buses not been updated?, or is that the point is to try and kill people now?

 

[radamfi]

Thats a bit of a stretch! You would still need to be wrapped up for the prevailing conditions whilst you wait. Put a coat on. The improved ventilation is believed to help disperse virus droplets.

If the point of public transport is to take cars off the road, then making the journey unpleasant isn't a good idea. In any case, it is now widely believed that public transport is not a risky activity. In addition, other than some old trains, trains don't have opening windows yet are considered safe enough.

 

[kez19]

One of the buses I was on yesterday had signs on advising of keeping the windows open for ventilation (I forget which), whilst another had all the windows shut (my OH opened the one next to us) and no signs

The first bus I was on, a couple of passengers had got chatting to one another, comparing notes. One said they were travelling a bit on the buses and that it was usually a place to keep warm, but that some of them were "perishingly cold"

I think as the weather gets colder, persuading passengers to leave the windows open is going to be a tough sell!

The irony on my bus today was I got told to close it then about 10 mins further into a journey a group of people (possibly council workers looking after someone) then closed the window that I touched originally (driver as far as I know didn't notice)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Nov 2020 ==

If the point of public transport is to take cars off the road, then making the journey unpleasant isn't a good idea. In any case, it is now widely believed that public transport is not a risky activity. In addition, other than some old trains, trains don't have opening windows yet are considered safe enough.

Case example some trains like LNER Azumas have windows closed but have ventilation on.

 

[greyman42]

The trouble with buses, and older trains, is that closing the window where you are sat does not help much as this window is not the one causing the draft that you are feeling. The answer is to close all the windows.

 

[kez19]

The trouble with buses, and older trains, is that closing the window where you are sat does not help much as this window is not the one causing the draft that you are feeling. The answer is to close all the windows.

Which in my case there was 4 (2 left/2 right) open in total on both sides, so I decided to close one which left 3 open but to be told to reopen it, so back to 4.

I am probably more likely to get away with doing this on a double deck than a single if I wanted to close a window!, as I say the point I am trying to make is where is government(s) guidance in all this? Surely having summer having windows open surely something could have been setup for winter?

If the point was to still keep windows open then why not have a guidance of close so many windows?, but still on the other lets keep the heating on too on a bus which no one can feel cosy with as you get a freezing breeze through the opened windows! (not aimed at you this... just a further point)

 

[squizzler]

I was told off today to keep a window open on a small single decker, however all windows were open so I was only closing one (if for arguments sake ventilation was still running through bus) however the irony is why then have the bus heating on?

but still on the other lets keep the heating on too on a bus which no one can feel cosy with as you get a freezing breeze through the opened windows!

Heating in cars (and presumably busses) is just waste heat off the engine, and (except perhaps for parasitic load from air blowers) adds nothing to the fuel bill. It is therefore not a contradiction to have the heating on even if the windows need to be open.

 

[kez19]

Heating in cars (and presumably busses) is just waste heat off the engine, and (except perhaps for parasitic load from air blowers) adds nothing to the fuel bill. It is therefore not a contradiction to have the heating on even if the windows need to be open.

I guess this will be one year there will be no condensation let alone dampness on board

 

[Bantamzen]

Just a thought here, who thinks its a good idea to have windows all open once winter fully sets in? Its bad enough for healthy people, but many older people rely on them and having Artic winds & possibility rain / snow blowing through buses is going to be unbearable for some.

Another example of making "covid-safe" ideas impracticable to the point of ridiculousness.

 

[radamfi]

I guess this will be one year there will be no condensation let alone dampness on board

Buses are basically rubbish in winter whatever you do. Even in summer when it is raining. Close the windows and you get condensation. If you open the windows you remove the condensation but the passengers get cold. The bus operators should do something to stop this. You don't get this problem on trains.

 

[westv]

Where I live buses seem to have their heating on in summer on the rare occasions I've used them!

 

[kez19]

Just a thought here, who thinks its a good idea to have windows all open once winter fully sets in? Its bad enough for healthy people, but many older people rely on them and having Artic winds & possibility rain / snow blowing through buses is going to be unbearable for some.

Another example of making "covid-safe" ideas impracticable to the point of ridiculousness.

Its something thats been forgotten about or lost in translation

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2020 ==

Buses are basically rubbish in winter whatever you do. Even in summer when it is raining. Close the windows and you get condensation. If you open the windows you remove the condensation but the passengers get cold. The bus operators should do something to stop this. You don't get this problem on trains.

I don't mind opening the windows on a journey but since COVID started and entering the colder seasons it seems to be keep windows open permanently. Do the bus companies close all the windows once they have finished for the day? (the irony I might just add what did we do last year and previous years in cold months... we closed the windows!)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2020 ==

Where I live buses seem to have their heating on in summer on the rare occasions I've used them!

Thats a rarity!

 

[Bikeman78]

Thats a bit of a stretch! You would still need to be wrapped up for the prevailing conditions whilst you wait. Put a coat on. The improved ventilation is believed to help disperse virus droplets.

I got on a double decker bus the other day. I was the only person on the top deck so I closed all the windows. I'm not sitting in the cold for no reason.

 

[kez19]

I got on a double decker bus the other day. I was the only person on the top deck so I closed all the windows. I'm not sitting in the cold for no reason.

Heck I got told from one of my friends who drives a bus was if to close the window best bet do it quietly! Who never knew that closing windows on buses (especially in winter), people take offence too!

I believe this would be the case on a double deck (possibly upstairs) you could get away with it.

 

[Carlisle]

Heck I got told from one of my friends who drives a bus was if to close the window best bet do it quietly! Who never knew that closing windows on buses (especially in winter), people take offence too!

As discussed in other threads, the first wave claimed quite a few lives of bus drivers, mainly in the London area

 

[yorkie]

Just a thought here, who thinks its a good idea to have windows all open once winter fully sets in?

People who do not use public transport, nor care about people who use it.

They're not the sort of people I want anything to do with.

 

[kez19]

As discussed in other threads, the first wave claimed quite a few lives of bus drivers, mainly in the London area

Was aware of that but drivers have their own windows in their cabins they can use?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2020 ==

People who do not use public transport, nor care about people who use it.

They're not the sort of people I want anything to do with.

Yet you could also say are more than likely will travel by car and have the luxuries of not sitting next to people or experience what passengers experience

 

[Nicholas43]

Just a thought here, who thinks its a good idea to have windows all open once winter fully sets in?

Me. I'm 77, but possess a good coat and a woolly hat, and don't want to travel in a fug that MIGHT, just MIGHT, be pullulating with SARS-Cov-2-laden aerosol.

 

[Bantamzen]

Me. I'm 77, but possess a good coat and a woolly hat, and don't want to travel in a fug that MIGHT, just MIGHT, be pullulating with SARS-Cov-2-laden aerosol.

Good to hear you've got a good coat. The good news is that your bus almost certainly WON'T have a SARS-Cov-2 laden aerosol as public transport is not seen a a major source of it. Indeed many countries have got back to using public transport without all this kind of hysteria. The bad news is you can't, and don't speak for everyone else. Public transport is in dire need of use, otherwise much of it will fail. The prospect of sitting on a bus for 15/30/45/60+ minutes with a cold northern wind blowing in rail/hail/snow into the bus doesn't appeal, and might be extremely uncomfortable, and will result in fewer and fewer people using it, which WILL lead to cuts in services.

So you sit in the freezing air blowing in at you, I will be closing the window. Don't worry, I'll be wearing a face covering, which should be enough right?

 

[Darandio]

So you sit in the freezing air blowing in at you, I will be closing the window. Don't worry, I'll be wearing a face covering, which should be enough right?

It's staggering to think how far as a country we have fallen in sensibility in just a matter of months. Avoid Covid at all costs but in doing so risk cold or flu with the potential of causing pneumonia or some other serious respiratory illness that can be even more dangerous.

The mind boggles.

 

[Nicholas43]

Good to hear you've got a good coat.

Thanks! When I've been on a bus lately, it's usually been to get to a walk in some lovely woods and hills a few miles away. In those woods, I don't worry that the cold winds might give me a cold (how?), or that such a cold might bring on pneumonia (why?).
For what it's worth (anticipated chorus: not much!) the Department for Transport's current guidance to operators is

You should consider how to increase ventilation and air flow. Where possible, transport operators and businesses should ensure that a fresh air supply is consistently flowing through vehicles, carriages, transport hubs and office buildings.

To achieve this, you could consider:

• ...
• opening doors and windows where possible and safe to do so.

 

[Darandio]

I don't worry that the cold winds might give me a cold (how?), or that such a cold might bring on pneumonia (why?).

Because that cold can trigger a flare up of symptoms in a condition you might not even be aware you had, therefore making you more vulnerable to further illness. You know, the same thing that happens every winter. Even more so if you are funnelling sub-zero air into a bus.

You will note that part of the guidance suggests 'where possible and safe to do so'. I'd suggest that funnelling sub-zero airflow over vulnerable people isn't really a safe practice. I suppose it's all guided by the science.

In terms of the thought process that confuses me here is a great example from Twitter. I'm baffled, I truly am.

Heading back into town, got the bus all to myself. Opened the windows as all were closed.

 

[Bantamzen]

Thanks! When I've been on a bus lately, it's usually been to get to a walk in some lovely woods and hills a few miles away. In those woods, I don't worry that the cold winds might give me a cold (how?), or that such a cold might bring on pneumonia (why?).
For what it's worth (anticipated chorus: not much!) the Department for Transport's current guidance to operators is

I'm not interested in what some pen pusher's idea of "covid-safe" is on a bus. Maybe your bus ride to the start of your walk is nice and easy, sadly not everyone has the same luxury. For example my better half's work involves traveling through some of Bradford's busiest parts of the road network. And it can take 60-70 minutes to travel just 4-5 miles through crawling traffic, which let me tell you is not a lot of fun on a lovely warm day in summer. So in winter when you are wet through and there is a northern wind blowing air at you with a wind chill of minus centigrade, the absolute last thing you want is to sit on a bus with the wind blowing through at you with a wind chill of minus centigrade.

I'm afraid your response is rather typical of the "Im alright Jack" attitude that is sadly displayed way too much this year. It isn't alright for a lot of people, a lot of people have lives to lead where they could do without being frozen to the core to make people like yourself feel a bit safer. Sorry if that's an awkward response, but reality needs to kick back in.

 

[Nicholas43]

---

In England, sub-zero air is rare. When I've experienced it up a French mountain, it didn't give me a cold or pneumonia.
I surmise that the tweeter who baffled Darandio feared that PREVIOUS PASSENGERS, now departed, MIGHT have left a disease-laden fug in the stale air.

 

[radamfi]

Just lock the windows shut so they are like on trains so there is no debate about it.

 

[Bantamzen]

---

In England, sub-zero air is rare. When I've experienced it up a French mountain, it didn't give me a cold or pneumonia.
I surmise that your tweeter feared that PREVIOUS PASSENGERS, now departed, MIGHT have left a disease-laden fug in the stale air.

Is it? Not in my part of the world.